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New HDMI over IP solution


ERDrPC

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I read this article on CEPro. It seems NetStreams doesn't compress their video like JAP does. Has anyone used their product?

http://www.cepro.com/article/post-acquisition_netstreams_recommits_to_resi_av_control/

The follow was a reply on the CEPro article

Keep in mind that the NetStreams products not only distribute all the digital audio and video, but you have complete control all over the same data connection. No need for additional control boxes for your relay needs or input sensors, power sensors, IR and serial routing. All of your control needs are included and no additional wiring, power supplies or programming required.

We have a new Tech Sales department that just started at NetStreams. If you need help with your designs or questions they will be more then happy to help you design any size system from a few zones for a small home to hundred of zones for a large stadium or enterprise system. Please call them at 1-512-977-9393 or email us at techsales@netstreams.com

Michael Braithwaite

NetStreams

There is no mention of the audio stream and if it handles TrueHD or DTS-HD MA

Now that the sunset issues have arisen, it seems HDMI is only way to go. Crestron has a very nice but very expensive digital media product. It is future proof, ie you can just change the control card to handle 4k and 8k content if you were smart enough/can afford to run fiber. It will also spit the HDMI audio and video for those times where you want to listen to a different audio stream. I wonder if JAP, NetStreams HDMI over IP or any other HDMI distribution system will be easily upgradeable and can be integrated into the cheaper but still great C4. This is one of the issues weighing my decision on my home automation installation as I don't want to rip stuff out to upgrade 10 years down the line. I'm waiting to see what comes out at CEDIA in September as well as C4 2.0 before making any decisions.

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I am in the planning states for a system in a new house. I am trying to decide between HDMI over IP or just HDMI with a matrix switch. From a cost prespective it is all over the place. If my equipment is in the center of my house and all of my runs are 50 feet or less than HDMI should not be a problem. Any thoughts from anyone.

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I am in the planning states for a system in a new house. I am trying to decide between HDMI over IP or just HDMI with a matrix switch. From a cost prespective it is all over the place. If my equipment is in the center of my house and all of my runs are 50 feet or less than HDMI should not be a problem. Any thoughts from anyone.

How accessible will those runs be in the future? HDMI might be good today but the future is unwritten. You could pull HDMI cables now and pull some extra Cat-6 to future proof. Even the HDMI cables you pull today might not meet the future HDMI specs. Think about running conduit too.

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Now that the sunset issues have arisen, it seems HDMI is only way to go. Crestron has a very nice but very expensive digital media product.

Keep in mind that Crestrons DM system is their flagship product. They also have various other products that do what the DM system does at a more affordable cost. One of those products is Crestrons HD-MD8X2 and it is actually less expensive than Just Add Power solution.

Below is an 8 source 2 room example using Crestrons HD-MD8X2 vs JAP.

The Crestron HD-MD8X2 retails for $3,000.

The JAP (Just Add Power) solution (8x2) runs $3,398.00 (8 Transmitters @ $350.00 each = $2,800.00 + 2 Receivers @ $299.00 each = $598.00. Total $3,398.00).

Also, the Crestron HD-MD8x2 doesn't suffer the video or audio problems that the JAP solution suffers from. Unlike the JAP solution, the Crestron HD-MD8X2 sends all video uncompressed up to the HDMI 1.3 specification including the support for deep color. As far as audio goes the Crestron HD-MD8X2 sends the following audio formats Dolby® TrueHD 7.1, Dolby Digital Plus 7.1, Dolby Digital AC3 5.1, Dolby Digital EX 5.1, DTS-HD Master Audio™ 7.1, DTS-HD High Res 7.1, DTS 5.1, DTS-ES Matrix 5.1, DTS-ES Discrete 6.1, DTS 96/24 5.1, 8ch PCM, 6ch PCM, and 2ch PCM.

With Crestrons HD-MD8X2 you are getting more and paying less. Also, with the Crestron HD-MD8X2 you can use the following cables depending on distance. HDMI, CAT5*, CAT6, Crestron DM Cable & Fiber (*Not recommended).

Unless a product can deliver all the HDMI 1.3 specification from the source to the display it's not a HDMI solution but more of a bandaid.

It is future proof, ie you can just change the control card to handle 4k and 8k content if you were smart enough/can afford to run fiber.

Fiber is not as expensive as one would think. If you are running 5 CAT6 cables per location (2 for video, 1 for audio, 1 for ethernet, 1 for control) @ about .10 each per foot that's a total of .50 cents per foot. Where as 2 strand, Multimode fiber runs about .43 cents per foot.

Over a single pair of, 2 strand, fiber I am sending the following to every display.

1) Uncompressed HDMI 1.3 video with support for Deep Color

2) Uncompressed Multi-channel Audio (Dolby® TrueHD 7.1, Dolby Digital Plus 7.1, Dolby Digital AC3 5.1, Dolby Digital EX 5.1, DTS-HD Master Audio™ 7.1, DTS-HD High Res 7.1, DTS 5.1, DTS-ES Matrix 5.1, DTS-ES Discrete 6.1, DTS 96/24 5.1, up to 8ch PCM)

3) Ethernet (10/100)

4) RS-232 Control

5) IR Control

6) USB HID

7) Relay

8) Digital/Contact

9) Ability to embed CEC commands directly within the HDMI Channel and send to any source or display

One draw back of Fiber is that it can not carry power (LV) so you will need to find a way to cary LV, if required, from source to display.

I wonder if JAP, NetStreams HDMI over IP or any other HDMI distribution system will be easily upgradeable and can be integrated into the cheaper but still great C4.

Only time will tell. As I stated above unless a product can deliver the HDMI specification from source to display including uncompressed video, deep color support & multichannel audio support supporting all the formats (Dolby® TrueHD 7.1, Dolby Digital Plus 7.1, Dolby Digital AC3 5.1, Dolby Digital EX 5.1, DTS-HD Master Audio™ 7.1, DTS-HD High Res 7.1, DTS 5.1, DTS-ES Matrix 5.1, DTS-ES Discrete 6.1, DTS 96/24 5.1, 8ch PCM, 6ch PCM, 2ch PCM) and what ever the future holds, it's not a HDMI solution but only a bandaid.

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While the Crestron piece is nice, we can't plug that into a Control4 system and use it there, can we?

I was just going to ask that very question actually. I wonder if we could? Can the Crestron unit be controlled by anything other than a Crestron controller?

My cousin has been hounding me to let him install Crestron in my home, he is a Crestron dealer starting to do residential work (has previously only done commercial) and wants a show home. He wants me to buy the equipment at cost though. My worry with Crestron is the lighting and all the wiring required to make that work....

That, and the cost of implementation, even at dealer pricing.

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GoGo, you forgot to include a switch in the cost of the JAP solution (helps make your case for the Crestron unit). You also forgot to mention the fact that the JAP solution is scalable to any number of sources and displays (a definate win for JAP).

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GoGo, you forgot to include a switch in the cost of the JAP solution (helps make your case for the Crestron unit).

I left that out purposely as you will have a switch in the C4 and Crestron installation regardless of JAP or DM.

You also forgot to mention the fact that the JAP solution is scalable to any number of sources and displays (a definate win for JAP).

Again, left out purposely as you can daisy chain multiple Crestron DM systems.

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My cousin has been hounding me to let him install Crestron in my home, he is a Crestron dealer starting to do residential work (has previously only done commercial) and wants a show home. He wants me to buy the equipment at cost though. My worry with Crestron is the lighting and all the wiring required to make that work...

Go with the InfiNet lighting which is the wireless lighting line. No need to pull any control (Cresnet) cable.

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One of the nice things about JustAddPower is that you can grow the matrix as your system grows. There is no need to buy 8 transmitters day one unless you need to connect 8 sources. The ability to grow over time can be a big cost saver on the initial purchase.

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There is a solution that does everything the Creston does as more as far as I can tell. The Atlona Pro is actually 8x8 rather than 8x2 and does all the high def, TrueHD 7.1, etc. It also has dual output over Cat6 and local HDMI so its really 8 x 16 if you wanted it to be. For instance you could place a TV in the rack closet on a local HDMI port and it would not take up one of your 8 Cat6 ports. The retail price is double $6,500 but as an Atlona dealer I can tell you that the MSRP is way above where they can be sold at. There are Control4 drivers for it right now.

Also, I've been talking the project team and they are working on a model that sends the IR the reverse direction. If you cannot wait on that model, they can confirure it to run on 1 Cat6a with no IR or power for the receiver.

Nothing against the Creston product, I'm just adding that there is a similar Control4 compatible product right now that is 8x8/8x16. Also a 16x16 is apparently forthcoming as well (and if you have 16 displays I dont like you!) :)

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Haha, OK. Well the 16 x 16 is supposed to be out very very soon. It will also have IR from remote to the rack. However, they have tested bi-directional and I explained to the project manager how great it would be to have bi-directional IR and he said he agreed and they are perfecting it and hope to implement it soon. Here is his comments for an alternative solution (running 1 Cat6 with no IR):

"There is no loss when you are sending video and audio over a single cable. The back-up Power + IR are being transferred on the other cable, therefore it will be ok if you would use the second cable for you IR needs.

The receivers would have to be custom made, which will take 2 weeks. I will inform you once we have the bi-directional IR matrix developed."

The product is here: http://www.lenexpo-electronics.com/Atlona-8x8-2-PRO-HDMI-Matrix-Switch-with-CAT5-6-and-Local-HDMI-Outputs-p-17822.html

A nice photo of the back of it is here: http://www.lenexpo-electronics.com/products/d_5257.jpg

The 16x16 will be identical and will also come with 16 receivers (just like the 8x8).

Notice in the photo that it also has 8 IR blasters for use in the rack to control other devices. You can also see the HDMI in, HDMI out and dual Cat6 out.

If you're not a Lenexpo dealer and you want a quote for resale for this job just e-mail me and I'll get the the price and the date of the 16x16. The 16 x 16 can really be run up to 16x32 because it outputs the HDMI and Cat6 simultaneously.

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How are you installers contemplating getting the Control4 GUI to each screen? As you know, the control4 GUI is outputed only through component. With JAP or an HDMI switcher, you would need some sort of component-to-analog converter. Are your clients deep pocketed enough to have an HC-200 behind each screen? Or are you using an analog-to-hdmi conversion device made by Atlona, Gefen, etc?

I am concerned that these analog-to-HDMI conversion devices would be really slow.

http://www.atlona.com/Atlona-Component-Video-with-Optical-to-HDMI-Converter-p-17423.html

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Yes only 16 unique outputs with mirrored HDMI outputs (useful if the projector is close or if you want to have a display for the rack closet, etc.)

3fingerbrown, I haven't tested it yet but my plan is to use the AT-COMP-HDMIN which supposedly has zero delay/lag on conversion or one of their similar models. The model I'm talking about is the exact one you posted the link to.

The only reason I haven't tested it yet is I'm waiting on the bi-directional IR feature for the switch.

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I have the JAP solution and the component-to-HDMI converter that Blackwire (Kevin) sells is connected to my HC300 ... once the HDCP handshake occurs, there is no lag, it's inexpensive and it works very nicely. If you want all your sources to have instantaneous responses, some installers have come up with a solution for that as well ... requires additional JAP receivers and has already been talked about on this site.

http://shop.blackwiredesigns.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=37

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  • 8 months later...
GoGo' date=' you forgot to include a switch in the cost of the JAP solution (helps make your case for the Crestron unit).[/quote']

I left that out purposely as you will have a switch in the C4 and Crestron installation regardless of JAP or DM.

You also forgot to mention the fact that the JAP solution is scalable to any number of sources and displays (a definate win for JAP).

Again, left out purposely as you can daisy chain multiple Crestron DM systems.

wrt the switch - the C4 system doesn't require any specialized managed switches - it sounds like the JAP solution requires a fairly high-end switch that carries not only a high initial cost, but a yearly maintenance cost for IOS support and patches.

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wrt the switch - the C4 system doesn't require any specialized managed switches - it sounds like the JAP solution requires a fairly high-end switch that carries not only a high initial cost, but a yearly maintenance cost for IOS support and patches.

In most cases the switch used for Just Add Power is not on the main network - why would you need IOS support and patches if its not physically connected to anything else? Just curious.

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