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Software version 1.8- to do or not??????


Ringold

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Need some advice please. I would like to upgrade to 1.8 because I am going to add some wireless dimmers to my current project. Current software is 1.7.3. I have:

1. hc300

2. aviatrix video matrix with 6 HD inputs and currently 5 HD Tvs

3. 3800 songs on an attached usb hard drive

4. media server

5. 2 ip cameras

6. 4 sr250s

7. Russound distributed audio

HC300 controlling all of the above beautifully. Want 1.8 because its the newest, and because I am going to add some lighting control. Figure might as well update prior to getting the lighting control. BUT, I have read various reports of system slowing. Does anyone think the above system will be significantly slower with upgrading to 1.8????????

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Most of this has been discussed in other locations on the forum, but here's the 'Executive Summary' for those of you who are considering:

If you don't need 'new device' support, there's not really much reason to update.

The advantages of 1.8, and ZigBee Pro include:

* The ability to run multiple ZAPs on the same channel without changing channels on devices.

* The ability to add new 3rd-party devices which are ZigBee Pro compatible (this is mainly the B&D Lock ATM)

* The ability to add new Control4 devices which are only supported in 1.8.x and later (i.e. the I/O Extender)

* The ability to have lighting scenes execute immediately. i.e., no more 'popcorn effect' when you hit 'all lights off' or 'all lights on', etc.

* ZigBee Pro is encrypted on-the-air, so it is more secure

The disadvantages include:

* Due to the encryption, some devices are a bit slower, with the main complaint being the SR-250 remote.

This is exacerbated in installations where the remote has to go several hops to get to a ZAP, so if all of your controllers are in the basement, and your remotes are 2 floors away, this can be an issue.

It is helped by having controllers distributed throughout the home. I personally have 1/floor (3 floors), and don't see much of a slowdown, although it is still likely slower than pre-1.8.

This is also helped by having faster controllers, i.e. a main HC1000 controller helps a lot.

* ZigBee Pro will not support all legacy devices.

-- V1 / V2 remotes will not work in ZigBee Pro.

-- The 10-button LCD Keypad (ZigBee version) will not work in 1.8, but WILL work in 2.0.

RyanE

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RyanE,

Are you saying the v2 remotes will not work in 2.0?

The V1 and V2 remotes do not work with ZigBee Pro. Since OS 2.0 is ZigBee Pro the V1 and V2 remotes will not work in OS 2.0.

There are other devices that are not ZigBee Pro compatible also.

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You may be confusing them with the 10-button LCD keypad, which is an in-wall List Navigator device.

It is the case that the 10-button LCD keypad does not work in 1.8 and does again work in 2.0.

Unfortunately, the V1/V2 remotes are not supported in ZigBee Pro (in 1.8 or in 2.0).

Sorry.

RyanE

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I know I am getting off subject, but isn't the v2 and the 10 btn LCD basically the same thing? (internally and function wise)

I have never heard that one. It makes a nice conspiracy theory. Perhaps Mulder and Skully can check the X-files. :D

I think that the 10 button was available before the V2 remote was even manufactured.

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Well I guess you could say a v1. But I never owned one so I said a v2. But if you navigate through the LCD on the remote it is identical to navigating the LCD.

The 10 button is designed to run list navigator just like the V1, V2 and probably V3 remotes do. The menus look the same by design. This does not mean that the hardware of each device is capable of accessing the ZigBee network the same way.

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Alan's on the money with this one.

Just because two devices use List Navigator doesn't make their hardware (or firmware) or the amount of memory the same (which I believe is the reason the V1 and V2 are not going to Pro).

After all, Panasonic Phones (on the right PBXes) can do List Navigator, too, and they're not *anything* like Control4's remotes, they work almost identically to the 10-button LCD Keypad!

RyanE

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Dan, I know they dont look the same.

RyanE, I am not comparing them with any other pieces, the LCD and Panasonics were years apart and different manufacturers.

I am just saying that that they operate almost the same, they were brought to market about the same time as first generation products from a startup company, so you would think they would be very similar internally. That and my dealer at the time told me that they were basically the same, one was battery operated remote and the other was an inwall powered by 110v, both zigbee units.

I am dropping the subject now.

PS: Like I posted before, I must have missed the thread saying the v1/v2 remotes will not work with 2.0, can someone repost the equipment that will not work. I know of the card access pieces. I would have replaced all my remotes when the trade-in deal was going on. Does anyone know if there is talk of bringing that trade-in program back with the release of 2.0?

Thanks

tebery

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Blog post:

http://c4central.com/2009/11/12/1-8-x-and-later-or-big-bad-zigbee-pro-and-what-it-means-for-you/

Original thread:

http://c4forums.com/viewtopic.php?id=3949

Card Access does have equipment that works in ZP, the issue is the same - some are software upgradeable, some are hardware trade-ins for newer versions. They also have some that ship in ZP already.

The list of equipment that will not work in 2.0 has not been finalized since 2.0 is not finalized. There has been no talk to date of bringing back the trade-in promo, but I'm sure if you ask a/your dealer they would be happy to quote you.

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From the blog post:

"Unsupported devices:

Right now, there are some Zigbee Control4 products that will not work in 1.8, but some will have support in 2.0:

Remote Control V1 and V2

LCD Keypad

Contact / Relay extender

Multi-tuner

Audio Matrix Switch

Multi-channel amplifiers"

Now, you are correct in that it says some of those devices will work with 2.0, but doesn't explicitly say which ones. I wish the V2 remotes would work as well, but fortunately I was able to take advantage of the trade in program to replace the last few V1 and V2 remotes I had in use...that definitely softened the blow a little.

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The LCD Keypad came *MUCH* later than the V1 remote (2 or 3 years), and the V2 remote is the V1 remote with different buttons and slightly different functionality for the ABCD buttons.

The LCD keypad was a completely new design, and didn't reuse anything from the remote, other than they both use List Navigator.

So even though they're really both 'first-generation', the remote as less RAM and Flash than the 10-button LCD keypad.

Sorry.

RyanE

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You've got a good point, but no one loves beating a dead horse more than I do... So here we go:

:)

Although FCS (First Customer Ship) for the main line of products (including the V1 remote) was April '05, Control4 was showing the (basically complete) V1 remote at CEDIA '04 in September, and I first saw the V1 remote at CES in '04 (January).

It had been in *development* basically since the company started, in '03.

The Wireless LCD Keypad was *developed and released* in '06.

The PoE LCD Keypad and the V2 remote were both released January of '07 (only a few months after the Wireless LCD Keypad was released).

Let's just say we're both right.

In any case, I'm sorry you've got V1 remotes with no upgrade path in 1.8 and later. How many of those do you have?

RyanE

Edited to Add: Congratulations on getting 500 posts, BTW!

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