Jump to content
C4 Forums | Control4

The CEDIA 2010 Thread


thecodeman

Recommended Posts


  • Replies 58
  • Created
  • Last Reply

nirv was ok, urc's multiroom audio was ok, but i will say this was the worst cedia ever. boring, not much new, and what was new was manufacturers offing things someone else did last year. just add power 2 looked better, but sill a little color saturation issue that will keep me away for a little longer. the panelized lighting for control4 which we may see in a year was nice. theres acutally not much to report at this time. i have a couple things i am putting together for you guys, but man this year was so lacking, and i will not write about anything to do with an ipad or iphone

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It looks like there will be nothing really new at Cedia from control4 itself.

http://www.control4.com/cedia/

The only "news" is just a few new partners announce relationships with control4 (and old partners announce they are still making C4 compatible products). If there were a little yawning icon available, I would put it at the end of this sentence.:/

looking forward to the live video footage from the show floor.

Coming soon!

:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

nirv was ok, urc's multiroom audio was ok, but i will say this was the worst cedia ever. boring, not much new, and what was new was manufacturers offing things someone else did last year. just add power 2 looked better, but sill a little color saturation issue that will keep me away for a little longer. the panelized lighting for control4 which we may see in a year was nice. theres acutally not much to report at this time. i have a couple things i am putting together for you guys, but man this year was so lacking, and i will not write about anything to do with an ipad or iphone

Panelized lighting? Is this the mock up (phony) panel system that they used to piss off Lutron a couple of years ago, or is this something different?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

nirv was ok, urc's multiroom audio was ok, but i will say this was the worst cedia ever. boring, not much new, and what was new was manufacturers offing things someone else did last year. just add power 2 looked better, but sill a little color saturation issue that will keep me away for a little longer. the panelized lighting for control4 which we may see in a year was nice. theres acutally not much to report at this time. i have a couple things i am putting together for you guys, but man this year was so lacking, and i will not write about anything to do with an ipad or iphone

Thanks for the update Joe. Much appreciate it.

Edited to add:

For all - Unless things have changed. The panellized lighting is similar to the din rail system they're selling in the UK I believe. The RM has it coming over to the US sometime next year, perhaps Q2.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Panelized lighting? Is this the mock up (phony) panel system that they used to piss off Lutron a couple of years ago, or is this something different?

No, this is something Control4 is already selling for the European market, the same thing should be available for the US market first half next year.

It'll be 110V, the current solution is 220V.

Form factor, etc. should be the same, still a DIN Rail solution.

RyanE

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Panelized lighting? Is this the mock up (phony) panel system that they used to piss off Lutron a couple of years ago' date=' or is this something different?[/quote']

No, this is something Control4 is already selling for the European market, the same thing should be available for the US market first half next year.

It'll be 110V, the current solution is 220V.

Form factor, etc. should be the same, still a DIN Rail solution.

RyanE

So what would the lighting system do for you? What would the application be? I am having a hard time trying to understand what it is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Panelized lighting? Is this the mock up (phony) panel system that they used to piss off Lutron a couple of years ago' date=' or is this something different?[/quote']

No, this is something Control4 is already selling for the European market, the same thing should be available for the US market first half next year.

It'll be 110V, the current solution is 220V.

Form factor, etc. should be the same, still a DIN Rail solution.

RyanE

So what would the lighting system do for you? What would the application be? I am having a hard time trying to understand what it is.

^ Me too. The research I did surely didn't reveal any answers...

Although we are a Crestron dealer and not a C4 dealer centralized lighting is basically all the same as to what it does. So I will explain it.

We do a lot of "Panelized Lighting"or "Centralized" lighting as it's commonly known as. Since this forum is geared towards Residential I will focus on that. We usually use centralized lighting in new builds or complete remodels (where the entire structure is down to the studs). There are many benefits to centralized lighting but I will hit on 3.

The first one is Cosmetic. When we do centralized lighting there are no light/fan switches anywhere on the walls. Instead there is a single wall mount (6") TP that we use that not only controls the lights in that room but throughout the house. This elements the "Wall Acne" multi-gangd switches and keypads have and gives the room a very sleek, clean and modern look. How do you turn on the lights? There is a button on the TP, see image below, thats specifically for that particular rooms lights. Press the button and the lights will come on to a preset setting usually 50%-75% depending on the time of day and the natural light the room is receiving.

tps-6l.png

The second is electrical wire runs. A centralized lighting system eliminates the electrical runs to lights and/or fan switches. Instead you will need 1 POE CAT5 (in our case a single Cresnet) drop coming from the switch (Cresnet HUB/Block) to where the in wall TP will be and you will run lighting electrical from the centralized lighting cabinet to the lights.

The third is more control over celling fans, and the ability to dim a greater range of lighting over a standard dimmer switch. For example a Crestron CLX-1DIM4 lighting control module provides dimming for incandescent, magnetic low-voltage, neon/cold cathode, and dimmable 2-wire fluorescent loads. As far as fan control a single CLX-1FAN4 fan control module provides speed control for up to 4 ceiling fans with each channel providing 4 preset speed settings plus off and 2 way feed back. If C4 offers a Fan module this maybe a reason to go with a hybrid centralized system.

I will say that very few, if any, C4 users would need/use a centralized lighting system. Crestron has 2 types of Centralized systems, their standard system using their CAEN enclosure and the DIN Rail Model and C4 has the DIN Rail. If you decided to go with a Centralized Lighting solution there are a few things you need to know about. 1) DIN Rail - You will need to check with your local building code enforcement officer to see if DIN Rail is acceptable. We have ran into city building codes where DIN Rail is not allowed. DIN Rail is big in Europe. 2) UL Listing - When we do a centralized lighting system we make sure the FINAL Assembly is UL Approved. Some cities may require that a Centralized Assembly be UL Approved. This is different than having the centralized lighting components UL Listed/Approved.

Below are pics of a centralized lighting system using Crestron CAEN, which fits in between the studs and is flush with the walls. I do not have an image of a Crestron DIN Rail install. By the way DIN Rail is a standard so it's the same across various manuf. as far as mounting goes. Just like rack mounting is standard 19" mounting.

caen-7x2.png

Hope this sheds light on a centralized lighting system.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

GoGo has basically answered what I would've answered.

Typically, 'centralized' lighting is specified by a designer, who would prefer not to have the dimmers in-wall, they'd rather have the dimmers centrally located and controlled as *scenes*, typically triggered by keypads or touchpanels, or automatically triggered by motion sensors, etc.

It makes for a cleaner install, and is more 'high-end'.

Until Control4 has a panelized solution, current installations use something like Vantage, Lutron, or LiteTouch, which all have panelized solutions which work well with Control4.

RyanE

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting. But I think that GoGo is correct in that very few, if any, C4 users would need/use a centralized lighting system. I would add I'm not sure why any Crestron user would want one either. Sure you have less wall clutter, but it comes at a heavy price in my opinion (and a large touch panel is 100x more noticeable than a switch in my opinion). I know my wife and visitors to my house would not want to screw around with a touch screen just to turn the lights on. The C4 dimmers are great because the LED lights up and they are easily located and operated by anyone walking in to your house for the first time, or fumbling in the dark for the switch. A dimmer is so much more practical than a touch panel.

And there is another problem inherent with centralized lighting: if the internet goes out, your light switches won't work and thus you are in the dark. Your wife doesn't want to hear your explanation about zigbee this and that if you are the only house on the block without lights. With normal wiring and using C4 dimmers, the dimmers still are up and running as normal switches even if your internet goes out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

. . .and a large touch panel is 100x more noticeable than a switch in my opinion.

The touch panels we use are small. We use either the 4L which is no bigger then a 2 gang wall plate or the 6L depending on the Interior Designer and what they choose. I personally prefer the 4L.

I know my wife and visitors to my house would not want to screw around with a touch screen just to turn the lights on.

You would not have to actually use the the screen of the TP. There is a button called "Lights" that you would press you can see it in the images above.

And there is another problem inherent with centralized lighting: if the internet goes out, your light switches won't work and thus you are in the dark. Your wife doesn't want to hear your explanation about zigbee this and that if you are the only house on the block without lights. With normal wiring and using C4 dimmers, the dimmers still are up and running as normal switches even if your internet goes out.

As stated by ILoveC4 the Internet has nothing to do with centralized lighting. But this does bring up a point I didn't make earlier. What if the control system goes down? On the lighting system we use there are various ways to get around that. With Crestron there is a an override on the lighting panel so you can go back to the old fashion way, manually. So if the CP goes down you can still turn on your lights. Thats just one way to do it. There are many other ways but explaining them will not serve any purpose.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Or a touchpanel...

Good rant, but needs more education on the subject...

What do you want to know? The above was just an over view if you would like to know specifics ask? I don't know if anyone here can give specific on a C4 lighting system since it's not out in the US yet. The only person that more than likely can is Ryan. As far as centralized lighting goes, all brands, Lutron, Crestron, etc basically do the same. A cabinet and lighting modules are the basics. As far a needing "more education" what would you like to know.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As far as 'what happens' situations, I've even had someone ask me if Control4 dimmers worked when the power was out...

:)

As far as a centralized system, yes, that's a risk.

That's one of the arguments for using something like Lutron, where their processor is custom tailored to *only* handle lighting, and because of that is more likely to have less likelihood of failure.

That said, I believe that a Control4 system can be stable enough to control a lighting system, especially if you're talking about using touchpanels or the like for the control, which are hardwired.

RyanE

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One of the things I liked about Control4 when I built my home was that I didn't have to hard wire the house. I could have made a good guess about how I wanted my lighting to work when I was building, but until I lived in the house awhile I really didn't have it all figured out. With C4, I could just install a dimmer/switch here and there to cover whatever I forgot about in the first place. I have changed my lighting a few times now. I just ordered the needed switches/dimmers to pretty much control everything except the things that C4 can't like fans and my fireplaces (no 110 in the fireplace switch boxes). I have had my 1000 crash and get replaced from my dealer, but since the switches/dimmers still control the load without the system running it was all good. I like the flexibility of a non-hardwired system.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Or a touchpanel...

Good rant' date=' but needs more education on the subject...[/quote']

What do you want to know? The above was just an over view if you would like to know specifics ask? I don't know if anyone here can give specific on a C4 lighting system since it's not out in the US yet. The only person that more than likely can is Ryan. As far as centralized lighting goes, all brands, Lutron, Crestron, etc basically do the same. A cabinet and lighting modules are the basics. As far a needing "more education" what would you like to know.

GoGo,

He was not refering to you.

Your information was quite helpful to the group

Brent

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.