rf5000 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Okay guys,Please dont punish me for asking these questions as I need some help.Building a home and looking at doing full automation. I want to wire it myself. I am pretty handy and have wired CAT5 based whole home audio systems but have never really gotten into the home automation side, so something that isn't crazy difficult to do. I want to use 2 or 3 larger touch panels in like the kitchen, master bedroom, and downstairs. Then use smaller touch panels or keypads in the outlying rooms and bedrooms. This is what I want the system to do or consist of:1.Whole home audio (speakers in the ceiling with individual room control to select different sources, probably from a media server. At the least, I would like keypads that can display video, album covers, etc.) Probably 12 zones with two speakers each zone2. Lighting control and motorized shade control ( would like to be able to control outdoor perimeter lighting, indoor lighting, and indoor motorized shades from any of the 2 or 3 larger touch screens. Also, to be able to control lighting when away from the home via Ipad or Iphone.)3. Security Cameras (would like to be able to view any security camera via the 2 or 3 larger touch screens and maybe even the smaller touch screens. Also be able to view away from home remotely)4. HVAC (be able to control temp from the touchscreens and be able to do this remotely)5. I would like a centrally located media server that I can upload movies and audio to with movie covers and album covers and have it displayed on any of the touch screens.Okay those are the main areas I wanted to focus on. My question is, what would I all need for Control4 hardware to accomplish all of this? I dont need a description donw to every screw and connector, but what do I need for the main hardware components? And, will I be able to connect everything and program it myself? PLEASE HELP. Sorry for the long post and a greatly appreciate this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Audio - 8 zone amp, 4 zone amp, and preferably a 16:16 audio matrix. Speaker wire ran to the equipment closet is all you need.Lighting/Shade - There are several shade options. Somfy and Mechoshade are best. CAT5e to each shade should be fine, 2 would be playing it safe.Security - I would run two CAT5e to each potential camera location.HVAC - Make sure you run a common wire to the T-Stat. No special wiring required.Media server - Just do a video distribution system. I'd suggest you run conduit to each TV, as well as 4 x CAT5e or CAT6.You'll only be able to program everything yourself if you're a dealer. There are dealers out there that will allow customers to pull wire and do the physical installation, you just need to find a dealer willing to work on that basis. I know of one that is great to work with like this, if you want his info shoot me an email and I'll pass it on.Lighting doesn't require any special wiring.Run a CAT5e to each potential Touchpanel location.Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rf5000 Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 So you suggest running four separate CAT6 wires to each TV location? Also, for using Control4 to run the HVAC system, I need no special wiring? There has to be wiring involved in that.Plus, you speak of amps, 16x16 matrix, video distribution system, etc. but what do you mean? What brands do you suggest or what what would work for this? What parts do I need like controllers, etc.? And to use Control4 to control my lights, I'm going to need wiring for that, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rf5000 Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 Forgive me on these questions,1. For items such as security cameras, in wall touch panels, etc. is the wiring ran to the controller? And if so, will the cameras be able to be viewed via any touchscreen or say remotely from my ipad? Is there anything else needed for the security or do the cat6 wires plug directly into the controller?2. For the HVAC, do I just get a wireless thermostat and then it can be controlled by touchscreens or remotely by ipad?3. For lighting, I have to buy all wireless switches for anything I want to control by touchscreens? Can the lighting be selected and controlled remotely by ipad?4. For home home audio distribution, what do I need so that it is controlled by touchscreens? Anything third party? What if I have three or four Control4 touchscreens and then standard in wall volume controls elsewhere can these all be integrated? Do the CAT6 wires from the touchscreens plug directly into the controller? Does the controller send out an audio signal to any amplifier where the speakers are connected and then how does it determine which room is sending it? Or this all wireless too?5. Can tv or video be viewed on the touchscreens? If so, what do I run to each screen? Just Cat 6? Also, what handles the video distribution? The controller? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rf5000 Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 Also, is there any difference between the HC-200, HC-300, or HC-1000 besides the size of harddrive? And do I just need one controller for my whole home or multiple controllers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letran Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Also, is there any difference between the HC-200, HC-300, or HC-1000 besides the size of harddrive?Only the HC1000 have the hardrive. It is also the fastest controller you can buy. The HC300 has more connections than the HC200.http://control4.com/files/products/data-sheets/Control4-Controllers.pdfAnd do I just need one controller for my whole home or multiple controllers?That will depends largely on the size and usage of your project. The navigator (COP) consumes a lot of controller resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rf5000 Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 What is the navigator (COP)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecodeman Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 What is the navigator (COP)?The TV interface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letran Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 1. For items such as security cameras, in wall touch panels, etc. is the wiring ran to the controller? And if so, will the cameras be able to be viewed via any touchscreen or say remotely from my ipad? Is there anything else needed for the security or do the cat6 wires plug directly into the controller?The wiring will need to your data switch not necessirily to your controller but your controller also needs to be connected to your switchthe camera image output has to fall within c4's specs to display in the touchpanels. I don't own an ipadAgain the security camera's (if they are IP) will plug directly to the switch through an injector or a POE switch. As oppose to the controller.Forgive me on these questions,2. For the HVAC, do I just get a wireless thermostat and then it can be controlled by touchscreens or remotely by ipad?Yes, but do enough research on the type of HVAC you have and the connectivity of the C4 tstat with that particular HVAC.3. For lighting, I have to buy all wireless switches for anything I want to control by touchscreens? Can the lighting be selected and controlled remotely by ipad?Yes, as I have heard4. For home home audio distribution, what do I need so that it is controlled by touchscreens? Anything third party? What if I have three or four Control4 touchscreens and then standard in wall volume controls elsewhere can these all be integrated? Do the CAT6 wires from the touchscreens plug directly into the controller? Does the controller send out an audio signal to any amplifier where the speakers are connected and then how does it determine which room is sending it? Or this all wireless too?Volume controls can be integrated but your speakers would have to be wired accordingly. If it is a new home would suugest all speakers homerun to your amp then install 2,3 or 6-button keypads where you want volume controls.Touchscreens are POE and needs to be connected to your data switchController sends a command to the amp not an audio signal. Commands are mostly done wirelessly via zigbee mesh.5. Can tv or video be viewed on the touchscreens? If so, what do I run to each screen? Just Cat 6? Also, what handles the video distribution? The controller?Not sure about this. But from what I know TV signal or any video cannot be viewed via TS. The controller does not do any video distribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rf5000 Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 I assume thats so you can watch tv on the screens if needed? That runs through the controller? So I would only need to run TV video to the Controller? I thought I would have to run it to each screen. Or do I still run it to each screen? I guess I want to know how this is connected and how it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rf5000 Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 I dont understand the following:Volume controls can be integrated but your speakers would have to be wired accordingly. If it is a new home would suugest all speakers homerun to your amp then install 2,3 or 6-button keypads where you want volume controls.Touchscreens are POE and needs to be connected to your data switchController sends a command to the amp not an audio signal. Commands are mostly done wirelessly via zigbee mesh.What does touchscreens are POE mean? Also, is there one centrally located data switch everything is connected to?Also, how does this work if the controller send a wireless command to the amp? How does the amp receive it and determine what channels to operate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlord Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 rf5000, I would suggest you spend some time looking for a really good dealer in your area. It sounds like you have a lot of questions that require a little bit more background knowledge. That knowledge may take some time trying to learn on this forum (due to posting back and forth). You would probably be more productive spending time interviewing and looking for a good dealer in your area (you are going to need one in the end anyways). They will probably be able to help build your knowledge about the basic system and how you should run your cables quicker then the postings on this forum. This just comes from my perspective where it was a lot easier sitting down with a dealer and asking all of those questions and getting a clearer picture, quickly. I was then able to see the equipment and how it was hooked up in one of the dealer shops I visited. It really helped to 'see' the product and how they are all interconnected.You can then use this forum to fine tune that knowledge and keep what your dealer is telling you in perspective with those who use it everyday and contribute to this forum on a daily basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henniae Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 I dont understand the following:Volume controls can be integrated but your speakers would have to be wired accordingly. If it is a new home would suugest all speakers homerun to your amp then install 2,3 or 6-button keypads where you want volume controls.Touchscreens are POE and needs to be connected to your data switchController sends a command to the amp not an audio signal. Commands are mostly done wirelessly via zigbee mesh.What does touchscreens are POE mean?PoE is Power over Ethernet. It is a way to send electrical power to run the touch screen over the same wires used for Ethernet dataAlso, is there one centrally located data switch everything is connected to?There are many designs for networks. There could be one centrally located Ethernet switch or there could be several switches located around your house. It really depends on what wire is in place and/or can be run.Also, how does this work if the controller send a wireless command to the amp? How does the amp receive it and determine what channels to operate?The controller communicated commands to control the amp over Ethernet. Audio is send to the amp via standard RCA audio cables. The amp can't decode digital sources and only accepts analog singles.I too recommend talking to a qualified dealer. But many on this forum will be happy to assist in educating you about Control 4. Welcome and good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letran Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 rf5000, I would suggest you spend some time looking for a really good dealer in your area. It sounds like you have a lot of questions that require a little bit more background knowledge. That knowledge may take some time trying to learn on this forum (due to posting back and forth). You would probably be more productive spending time interviewing and looking for a good dealer in your area (you are going to need one in the end anyways). They will probably be able to help build your knowledge about the basic system and how you should run your cables quicker then the postings on this forum. This just comes from my perspective where it was a lot easier sitting down with a dealer and asking all of those questions and getting a clearer picture, quickly. I was then able to see the equipment and how it was hooked up in one of the dealer shops I visited. It really helped to 'see' the product and how they are all interconnected.You can then use this forum to fine tune that knowledge and keep what your dealer is telling you in perspective with those who use it everyday and contribute to this forum on a daily basis.+1. And let me add before you commit to a dealer to get references of past "Control4" installations and not other HA systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rf5000 Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 How would the controller communicate with the amplifier over ethernet? Most amplifiers dont have an ethernet port, or are you referring to Control4 amplifiers only? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henniae Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 How would the controller communicate with the amplifier over ethernet? Most amplifiers dont have an ethernet port, or are you referring to Control4 amplifiers only?I guess I was assuming you were referring to a C4 amp, which uses Ethernet.If it is some other 3rd party amp or receiver it could be IR control or serial control. Some have Ethernet control. For example my Integra DTR 7.8 has Ethernet control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rf5000 Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 Also, what are the only differences between the HC-300 and the HC-1000? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panamagixxer Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 I have been happy with my installers/programs. I think when the house was being built, they would have engineered the install and let me pull all my wiring to save money if I wanted. I actually had them do all of it. I have been in too many situations (at work) when multiple vendors blame someone else because they had part of a project - for me, it pays to have one person responsible for everything (assuming you feel comfortable with the bid) so that in the end, they need to back-up the work.Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 rf5000, you should really find a dealer and visit the showroom, put your hands on the product and ask some of these questions. I think you would learn more in less time.That said, the HC300 and HC1000 are a lot different. The HC1000 is designed to run director (the main "program") in large scale or programatically (is that a word?) demanding Control4 installations. The HC300 can do what the HC1000, but the HC1000 can't do 95% of what the HC300 can. What the HC1000 does, it does very well. It is a much faster controller.That is probably really confusing....sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rf5000 Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 So the HC-300 can do way more things, just the HC-1000 is faster and has a hard drive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Yes. An HC200 or HC300 must be used in tandom with the HC1000. Look at the HC1000 as a supercharger for your engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rf5000 Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 So the hc300 can only work with the hc1000 or can the hc300 be used alone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 The HC300 can be used alone, the HC1000 can't. Think of the super charger analogy. The engine (HC200/300).is fine without the supercharger (HC1000), but it's much better with it. The super charger can't drive the car without the engine, but it makes the engine produce more power. Probably not the best analogy, but it makes sense to me =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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