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My C4 Install and User Experience


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Hi All,

I want to share my installation and user experience as a C4 owner. This is a long post. I want to say that I am happy with C4 and I have recommended them to friends and family. I have had a few MINOR issues which I detail in the summary at the end.

I post this as this is MY experience with a particular dealer. I DO NOT intend this to be a review on how C4 dealers/installers are. I am sure there are plenty of C4 dealers/installers who are MUCH more competent then the one we hired and I am sure there some C4 dealers/installers out there who are LESS competent then ours. Just make sure you screen your dealer VERY well.

Now . . . .ON WITH THE SHOW ! ! !

A year ago we, my wife and I, started looking around for a home automation solution. Over the course of the year we looked at all the major players, AMX, Crestron, Elan, etc. It wasn't until about 9 months ago that I was introduced to C4 and started to consider them along with the other that I mentioned.

Our initial install was VERY small. It was for our guest house, which is 1,300 Sq. Ft. and comprises of Living room, Master BR, Kitchen, and 2 bathrooms. Since this is my first home automation system I wanted to see how it would go with something small before I spent $$$$ on a system for the main house.

All of the dealers (4 in all) that we talked to (3) handled all the brands including C4 but ONE of the dealers only handled C4. I say this because the 3 dealers that handled all the brands ALL put down C4 and said it would be a BIG mistake if we went with them. In fact one dealer said has a client that insisted on C4, against the dealers objections, and that after 3 months called the dealer back and had him install a Crestron system. Other dealers also mentioned issues with the networking, product reliability, C4 support and how existing clients were not happy with the product. With that said I asked all 4 dealers for references of their C4 clients along with the other brands. I even received the reference for client who went from C4 to Crestron.

I called all the references over a period of 2 weeks and the biggest issue with all the C4 users was the lack of customer support the dealer received. Most said that the dealer was at the house on the phone with C4 CS and that they never solved any of the issues properly. Meaning that a lot of the drivers were not available and the dealer had to create them and even when he created them the C4 system was giving errors. Over all the customers were somewhat satisfied and 3/4's said they would buy C4 again, which I thought was good.

When we received the estimates back we received the following. (I am giving the lowest bids only)

Crestron $8,500

AMX - $7,000

C4 - $5,000

Elan - Never really pursued

After all the demos, quotes and ALOT of discussion with my wife we did decided to go with the C4 system from the dealer that was C4 only for the following reasons.

1) Price - Since this was just the guest house we thought if it didn't work right it would not be a big deal.

2) Move the C4 System - I figured that if it did not work right in the guest house that I may be able to use it in my music studio which is one BIG room

3) If it did work, and the C4 installer said he would Guarantee it would work just as good as the Crestron which was our 2nd choice, we would save $3,500 which is always good.

For C4 we chose the following setup.

Originally we wanted the Media Controller but after he asked us a few questions for some reason he said that the Media Controller was over kill and said we should go with the Home Theatre Controller. Maybe he thought we would like him more, or something, for saving us money. I don't know. At any rate that was a huge mistake as you will see when I talk about the install below. So we have the following.

Home Theatre Controller

Wireless Touch Screen

4 Wireless Dimmers

1 6 Button Wireless Keypad

4 Wireless Outlet Dimmers.

Now the install - First off, the C4 dealer you choose makes a WORLD of difference. Over all we were NOT happy with the installer we chose. My wife kept commenting that it seemed like this was his first install. Before I go into details let me describe the A/V setup in the guest house.

TV - Pioneer Elite Pro-FHD1 (2) Living Room and Master Bedroom

A/V Processor - Arcam FMJ AV9

Amp - Arcam FMJ P7

Dish HD Satellite Receiver

MovieBeam

Sirius SR H550

AppleTV

Sony DVP-CX995V 400 Disc DVD player

NeoThings A/V 8x4 switch

When we first spoke to our installer and told him our setup he said that it would be NO problem and that everything would work and that installation and programming would only take a day. He quoted us 8 hours for programming and install. We stressed that ALL AV equipment is in one room, a AV closet, and that only TV's were in the living room and Master Bedroom. We kept stressing this because we wanted to make sure he knew what he was getting into and that he was SURE that his quote of 8 hours for install and programming was adequate. Again, he said NO problem, "8 hours Tops". I said ok, but that we want a clause in the quote that if it's not finished on time that we would be entitled to a 10% discount off the total quote for everyday it was not completed. If he did finish on time we would give him a 15% bonus. He agreed to it and we signed the paper work on a Wed. and he was to start on Friday bright and early at 7AM.

Day 1 - Friday

7AM Friday morning - Expecting the installer to arrive. By the way I do not tolerate lateness at ALL. It's my BIGGEST pet peeve. So as you can guess by now he was late.

7:30 AM - Still no show

7:45 AM - I get a call - He says "Im on my way" he had a unexpected problem come up. In my head I said "OK I can let one go. But he should have called earlier not at 7:45. There is no excuse. What a flake. I hope this not a sign of things to come." What I said to him was "No problem just get here when you can. It's no big deal."

8:30 - Still no show

9:10AM - He arrives

Now he is over 2 hours late so you think he would get on the ball and get going on the job. Nope, he wants to start talking about our house, the grounds, the pool etc. I patronize him and answer his questions. I keep looking at my watch hoping he would get the hint but he doesn't. I finally say to him "lets go to the place where it will be installed" and he finally says "Oh yes, I better get moving." I ask him if he wants to get the things he needs from the truck as it's about 100 Yrd's from the drive down to the guest house. He said "no, just show me where the guest house is and how to get to it." I said "ok" thinking about the "10%" penalty. I showed him the house where I wanted everything. I showed him the kitchen and that the frig is stocked with water, soda, juice, etc and that we would provide him lunch. We always make sure that all our contractors and installers are feed if they are working through lunch. After I show him everything and where in the main house I would be, I leave. It's now almost 10 AM, 3 hours AFTER he was suppose to start.

10 AM - He starts making trips to to his truck to get his equipment out. He makes 3 trips which take a total of 30 min.

10:30 AM - 12:30 PM - I take it he is working.

12:30 PM - Went over to the house to see how it was coming along and to give him lunch. So far he has ONLY installed 2 of the dimmer switches of which only one works. He can not figure out why the second one does not work. He says " I think there is a problem with the switch. I got the other one to work but this one is not working." By working we are NOT talking about programming but about turning the switch on and off. I say to him "well here's lunch, let's eat."

1:00 PM - We are done and he goes back to work I go back up to my office

1PM - 3PM - Again, I take it that he's working.

3 PM - I go down to check on the progress. I thought by now that things should be somewhat working with the exception of the one Dimmer switch. I walk in and he has everything out, the HT Controller's out and plugged into the network, so is his laptop, all the IR's are labeled, etc. It APPEARS that he has things running and now just put the HTC where we want it. So I ask how things are coming along and he says "We have a problem." I say in my head "We don't have a problem, you do." Then I ask him "What is the problem you are having"? He says that there are 6 IR's plus a serial port and that we have 10 components to control plus with the way the setup is we wont be able to control TV (Power only on and off).

Because of our setup, all the AV gear is in a central AV closet, there was no way he can control the TV's. The TV's are the 50" Pioneer Pro-FHD1's we have 2. He said that these TV's have serial connections but there are not enough IR ports or Serial Connections on the HTC and if there were he would not know how to run the LED's from the IR ports or the Serial Cable to control the TV's since it's to far a run from the AV Closet to the TV's. He goes on to say that "we should have actually gone with the Media Controller." Which I reminded him that it was him who said we didn't need it. At this point I was SO SO SO close to firing him on the spot since I gave him a DETAILED list of equipment and a plan/layout of the entire AV system and I also asked him if he wanted to come for a pre-install inspection. He said no to the inspection saying the plan/layout drawings were enough. As soon as I was to blow my top the 10% penalty popped into my head.

At this point I reminded him that, when we first spoke it HAD to be finished by that day, which was a Friday, since we were expecting guests that weekend and that everything had to be working. I reminded him that he said install and programing would take "8 hours Tops". He said o.k. he will make it work. I told him to forget the living room and the the lights and to get the master bedroom working. I now decided to stay with him in the guest house until he was done.

As he was working I started to think to myself that this CAN NOT be that difficult. I know that the C4 system had to be programmed by the dealers using Composer but that the software can not be difficult to use. With that thought in my head I decided that I am SURE I can program the system myself and get this guy out of here. Being in the business I am in it's not hard to get anything we want. So after a few phone calls and 20 min later I had the latest copy of Composer dropped off by a friend of mine. Since our entire house hold is a Mac we had to install Windows on of of our Mac's, which we did using Parallels. Side note we upgraded all our Mac's from G4 and G5's to Intel's about 2 months earlier which allowed us to run windows.

Now I have Composer up and running I am able to connect to the HTC. Voile ! ! ! I am able to connect I start poking around and I come to find out that the HTC is running Linux. I thought to myself that I should be able to SSH into the HTC so I looked up the IP that was assigned to HTC and proceeded trying to SSH into the HTC via Terminal on the Mac. But it appears that they have SSH turned off. So I tried using Telnet and Voile ! ! ! Success . . . I was able to telnet into the HTC. While I was logged into Composer I did not do anything since the installer was programing or at least trying.

4 PM - 9 PM - The installer is trying to get things to run but is not having any luck. We decided to control the Arcam processor via Serial and that left us 6 IR ports for 7 AV Components. Remember he said there was nothing we can do about the TV's. Since the Arcam AMP does not need controlling that left us 6 AV components and we had 6 IR ports available. Finally.

He start's connecting everything together. Serial to Arcam Processor, IR's to the various AV gear. Now comes the programming. He comes to find out that there are no drivers for the Arcam, AppleTV, MovieBeam, Sony DVD Player or NeoThings. He tells me he will have to create all the drivers. So he spends the 5 hours working on drivers.

9 PM - At this point he's frustrated and nothing is working properly. AppleTV, MovieBeam and the Sony DVD player are operating but we can not watch them or listen to them. He calls it a day and I agree. He does not know at this point that I have Composer software. In my head I am thinking I will work on it after he leaves. He realizes that he will now be loosing 10% per day. Even though we have guests coming in I give him the opportunity to com on Sat to finish, he said he can't but he said he can come on Sunday after church which would be about 2PM. I said fine no problem. He packs up and leaves.

9 PM - 2 AM - Using Composer I get all the lights working the way I want with the exception of the "Broken Dimmer." I have all the schedules set, programmed the 6 Button Keypad, set ramp up defaults, etc.

2 AM - Time for bed.

Day 2 - Sat.

11 AM - 2 PM - My guests, Brother, sister and mom, are down at the beach so I decided to try to do some more programming. I got the Sirius receiver, the DISH receiver and the NeoThings AV switch programmed. took me less than 30 min. for all 3. I started thinking that this install MUST be this guys first, but I know for a fact that it's not so I don't know what his deal is. I now programmed the system to work properly SORT OF. With the TV's on and the ARCAM on When in the living room I pressed DVD everything switched correctly. The DVD turned on, NeoThings switched the correct input and output, all the buttons I assigned to the remote, controlled the DVD player the way I wanted it to. Success. I now thought that all should work (As much as it could). When I selected AppleTV again everything switched correctly. NeoThings switched the correct input and output, AppleTV's menu popped up and all the buttons I assigned to the remote, controlled AppleTV the way I wanted it to. I tried the rest of the components switched between zones (Living Room and Master Bedroom) and everything played the way it was suppose to.

2 PM - I decided to finish up and leave the rest to the installer for Sunday.

Day 3 Sunday

2 PM - Installer scheduled to show.

2:30 PM - No sign of installer and no phone call. Wife says I should call him. I said I am going to wait. I want to see how long it takes him to call.

3 PM - He calls. Says he can't make it something came up. I remind him about the 10% per day and he's aware of that. I said o.k. How about Monday? He said ok. He said he can be there ANYTIME. I said 7AM he said he will be there.

Day 4 - Monday

7 AM - Installer scheduled to show

7:30 AM - No sign of installer and no phone call. Again, wife says I should call him. Again, I said I am going to wait. I want to see how long it takes him to call.

8 AM - No sign of installer and no phone call.

8:30 AM - No sign of installer and no phone call. I call him. He answer. He completely forgot. I BLOW it and start to yell. He said he will be right over in 30 min.

9 AM - No sign of installer and no phone call

9:30 AM - He calls me. He stopped at Starbucks to get a coffee and asked if I wanted anything. I said NO and just hung up. My wifes is SOOOOOO pissed. Mind you, she's in her late 20's and I'm in my earlier 30's. We are not old bitties with no understanding but this is RIDICULOUS. We have our own company and would NEVER EVER treat a client like this. We, my wife and I, expect perfection from our employees. Perfect customer service, perfect product support, etc. We also expect that from the vendors we hire and as you can see thats far from what we received. If ti was not for the 10% penalty he would have been fired the first day.

10 AM - He shows up. I yell at him for another 20 min. until he can not take it anymore and he starts to tear up. Now I am really pissed. I tell him to "go get your crap out of your truck and get to work. I will be down there in 5 min." I'm down there in 4 and he's not there yet. I can see him walking down. He puts his stuff down, including his coffee and I say to him "before you start, I need to go over a few things with you." At this point I told him I had a copy of Control4 Composer and I did quite a bit of programming after he left and on Sat. He didn't believe me so I opened up my Mac, started Parallels, and launched Composer he was VERY surprised to see it and that was the latest version, 1.3.2. He asked how I got it I said "don't worry." I explained what I had done, showed him that it all worked and that the ONLY thing he needed to do was to program the Arcam and to replace the broken Wall Dimmer.

10:30 - 11:30 AM - Calls C4 tech support for the Arcam spends about an hour on the phone with them and at the end still no luck with the Arcam. C4 tech support could not get it working.

11:30 AM - 12:30 PM - He calls one of the other installers, no dice, calls another C4 dealer that they partner with they say the Arcam can NOT be controlled via Serial it has to be done via IR. He tells me this and I said look, I gave you a list of our gear, I gave you a drawing/layout of the gear and the rooms, there are no IR ports left. Either this gets done by 2PM today, INCLUDING the broken Dimmer Switch or take everything with you and I will call the Crestron installers. By the way my wife was telling me to do this after the first day. Just as I said that he said wait a min. I know what I can do. I have some notes on this back at the show room. I will go get them and come right back. I said o.k. no biggie since their show room is about 10 min from my house.

12:30 - 5 PM - He's gone does not come back until 5. I knew he was coming back since he left all his gear in the guest house. I ask him where he was he said "a customer called and he had to stop by there." Im to frustrated to yell any more. I just let him work

5 PM - 9 PM - Some progress. he's about 75% there on the Arcam. He can not control or switch zones properly which is VERY important. At this point he asks if he can come back on Wed. he said he has a install appointment on Tuesday. I am starting to feel bad for him. I said sure. I said what time? he said 7AM. I said "Are you sure"? he said yes.

Day 5 - Wednesday

7 AM - Guess what . .the gate buzzes I look at the monitor and it's him. I can not believe it. HE'S ON TIME. Maybe this is a sign. Maybe he will finish today.

7:30 AM - 12PM - He starts and continues to work. I see beams of Joy and Glee in his eyes as he is seeing more and more success.

12 PM - Lunch

12:30 PM - 2 PM - Continues working and programming.

2PM - He claims victory and says he's done.

2PM - 2:15 PM - Shows my wife and I how he programmed the remote, how the buttons turn on the TV, DVD, AppleTV, etc the way we wanted. Shows us that every thing is working as we wanted with the exception of the TV's. I said yes thanks to my 2 days of programming.

2:15 PM - 3PM - Replaces the broken dimmer. Only to find out it was not broken. He wired it wrong. He cleans up.

3PM - He's gone.

Summary

Product - Overall, after 2 weeks am happy with the C4 products that we purchased and I will expand C4 into our main house. In fact I have recommended them to neighbors and family. I will be replacing the HTC in the guest house with a Media Controller and move the HTC into my studio and start wiring that.

Issues - As far as issues go, the issues I have had have been VERY VERY minor. For example the commands for the buttons Radio, Music, TV, Videos, sometimes fall off. Meaning when I press those buttons they do not work. I have to open composer to get them to work again. Speaking about Composer, if I did not have the software I would have definitely had our installer take the system away. I know that many end users do not have access to the software but I feel they should. I know dealers don't want this because it takes away from the programming and install fees. But to be totally honest the software is very easy to use and in fact my wife has done some further programming.

There is still no way to control the power (on/off) to the TV's

He can not get navigator to work properly on the TV or on the Wireless touch Screen. When we select a movie everything turns on like it should BUT the movie is never selected

Dealer - Our dealer was AWEFUL. I would not recommend them at all. With that said, I did strike a agreement that I would by the equipment from them and do all install and programming myself since I have Composer. If I run into issues I will call them since I can not call dealer support nor do I have access to the dealer forum. In reality I will call another dealer for support only and tell them that I don't like my dealer and I want someone else to support us. I don't know.

If you are going with a Crestron, C4, AMX or any-other type of home automation make sure you do the following.

1) Make sure they come out and do a site survey. Our installer didn't

2) If you have a high end system ask them what they know about your gear. Do they know the difference between a McIntosh and a Macintosh or B&W and BMW, have they actually put together a system for other clients that resembles the gear you have?

2) Give a detailed list of equipment and layout.

3) When speaking with references ask what kind of equipment they have. I have come to find out the more high end the gear the less drivers C4 has. This concerns me a little as our main house has all McIntosh Amps, processors and tuners and our main screening room has Runco. I am searching for another C4 dealer for support in our area before I start this.

4) Insist on a penalty for everyday they go over schedule. To be fair if the do finish on time offer them a bonus.

5) Get EVERYTHING in writing. Our contract had the penalty clause, a copy of the layout and our gear list. I did this so he could not say he didn't know what gear we had or that is was different then what we told him and that the price he quoted us was based on something else.

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GoGo,

Great writeup, but sorry that you had all this trouble.

How are the TVs controlled currently? As an idea, you could install another HTC at the TV location to use the IR from that HTC. You have an HTC or Media Cotnroller in the closet and an HTC at the TV with plenty of IR and 1 serial port.

I ran into the same problem you did as far as finding a competent dealer. I just didn't feel they could do the job. I installed a small system similar to yours to start out with and am in the process of expanding. I am doing all the installation work myself, and working with a dealer that remotely connects to the system to add the devices to Composer and does some initial programming. For equipment that does not have drivers, my dealer is very competent in creating them and it seems to take him no time and in most cases works the first time, if not, it is fixed within minutes. This is all from a remote location and has never seen the install or my house. I have ComposerHE and can do a great deal of programming myself. I would love to have ComposerPro, but don't mind having my dealer take care of the nitty-gritty.

Good luck expanding your system and keep the forum up to date about your progress, dealer experiences etc.

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Excellent post - again, I guess I was lucky. Our installer is very professional he has a company with about 50 employees, nice showroom, nice vans, etc. When they show up, it is on-time with every possible wire/connection you can think of in their van. The biggest reason I went with them was their quote. Again, I did a lot of stuff, but their quote was a 17 page detailed analysis of every room, every wire and every component. They first started with a trip to the new home and we did a full component overview. They said they could use all my components, but because a few were older, there might be some issues. For example, I had an older receiver that you needed to continue to push the same input button to move to different inputs. They said it could be an issue, but they would work with it - I seleted to upgrade and they gave me numerous options that had worked for them.

Again, the quote was the decision maker. I had a couple other installers do a "quote" over the phone. My installer basically said the phone quote won't work because they needed to get a visual understanding of my house and needs.

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The HTC IR outs can be expanded by using a Y connetor, one male 3.5mm connector to two female 3.5mm connectors. Found at Radio Shack.

I have a similar setup and control the remote TVs with the B&B Vlinx serial extenders. I use Netgear Powerline to get network connections. Depending on your TV mount, you can mount the slim Vlinx behind the TV.

http://www.bb-elec.com/product_family.asp?familyid=2 The ESP902 is in Composer.

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How are the TVs controlled currently?

I am using the TV remotes just to trun them on and off

As an idea, you could install another HTC at the TV location to use the IR from that HTC. You have an HTC or Media Cotnroller in the closet and an HTC at the TV with plenty of IR and 1 serial port.

I am looking into that. When I upgrade to the Media Controller I thought about using the HTC behind one of the TV's. I do not want it to show at all as I have "Clean Install" through the guest house. Meaning all AV gear is hidden in the AV closet. I did it this way so guest do not fool with the actual components.

FYI - My installer is suppose to show up at 9AM, which is in about 4 min., to drop off one last item (he was short 1 Outlet dimmer) and to pick up the check. Let's see if he's on time.

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The HTC IR outs can be expanded by using a Y connetor, one male 3.5mm connector to two female 3.5mm connectors. Found at Radio Shack.

I have a similar setup and control the remote TVs with the B&B Vlinx serial extenders. I use Netgear Powerline to get network connections. Depending on your TV mount, you can mount the slim Vlinx behind the TV.

http://www.bb-elec.com/product_family.asp?familyid=2 The ESP902 is in Composer.

Thanks . . .I will look into it.

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wrong log in.

I responded under the user Digital Studio Werks. This was a old name that I registered with and never used, as I forgot the password and email address I registerd with. Because I forget that info I created GoGo Delicious. For some reason, and I did not realize this, when I opened up my browser and went to this forum it automatically logged me in as Digital Studio Werks. I still do not know the PW or email address for that UID and I didnt look it up before I logged out of that user.

Oh well . . sorry about that folks.

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If you truly have 1.3.2, that's not released yet, it's only in external beta, and is not recommended to be installed in end users' homes at this point.

Also, I'm sorry to hear you had issues with your dealer. If you still can't get on-screen working properly, post in here with any questions.

RyanE

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If you truly have 1.3.2, that's not released yet, it's only in external beta, and is not recommended to be installed in end users' homes at this point.

Also, I'm sorry to hear you had issues with your dealer. If you still can't get on-screen working properly, post in here with any questions.

RyanE

Sorry about that the version is 1.3.1.x. I have attached a image showing it running in Parallels on a Mac.

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UPDATE ! ! !

So here is the status. I finally got the entire house working, including the Great room, sans the TV's. The issues I have are the following.

1) Need to find a GOOD solutions for the TV's to control the on and off function. The TV are always set to Input2 which is the 1st HDMI connection.

2) The issue with the commands falling off the Radio, Music, TV, Videos button on the remote has been fixed.

3) Selecting DVD's in Navigator does not work properly. When a movie is selected all the equipment starts up, the receiver, the dvd player and the AV Switch. The problem is that the the DVD selected in Navigator never starts. The last DVD to be played is the DVD that will start. I have to go through Sony's DVD Explorer in order to select the movie. This defeats one of the reasons I purchased C4. I want it to be VERY easy for our guests to select movies, TV, Music, etc. So far thats not happening.

I am hoping to have #3 resolved by next week. I am going to work on this myself over the weekend.

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UPDATE ! ! !

So here is the status. I finally got the entire house working, including the Great room, sans the TV's. The issues I have are the following.

1) Need to find a GOOD solutions for the TV's to control the on and off function. The TV are always set to Input2 which is the 1st HDMI connection.

2) The issue with the commands falling off the Radio, Music, TV, Videos button on the remote has been fixed.

3) Selecting DVD's in Navigator does not work properly. When a movie is selected all the equipment starts up, the receiver, the dvd player and the AV Switch. The problem is that the the DVD selected in Navigator never starts. The last DVD to be played is the DVD that will start. I have to go through Sony's DVD Explorer in order to select the movie. This defeats one of the reasons I purchased C4. I want it to be VERY easy for our guests to select movies, TV, Music, etc. So far thats not happening.

I am hoping to have #3 resolved by next week. I am going to work on this myself over the weekend.

1) Vlinx solution posted above. OR I'm not familar with the Pioneer, but does it automatically turn on when it is plugged in and receives power? If yes, I think you could use a C4 Wireless Outlet Switch to control the power to the Pioneer powercord. If the Pioneer powers up to Standby only, then this will not work.

3) I recommend you change to Sony 777EX. It has serial control and works perfectly with C4. The 995V is IR only. Read this thread on the CX995V. http://www.c4forums.com/viewtopic.php?id=238

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How are the TVs controlled currently?

I am using the TV remotes just to trun them on and off

As an idea' date=' you could install another HTC at the TV location to use the IR from that HTC. You have an HTC or Media Cotnroller in the closet and an HTC at the TV with plenty of IR and 1 serial port.[/quote']

I am looking into that. When I upgrade to the Media Controller I thought about using the HTC behind one of the TV's. I do not want it to show at all as I have "Clean Install" through the guest house. Meaning all AV gear is hidden in the AV closet. I did it this way so guest do not fool with the actual components.

FYI - My installer is suppose to show up at 9AM, which is in about 4 min., to drop off one last item (he was short 1 Outlet dimmer) and to pick up the check. Let's see if he's on time.

Did your installer show up on time? If I was betting, the one time he shows up on time will be to collect!

Let me know if you would like information about the dealer I am working with remotely. He can probably save you some money, and is also competent when it comes to programming etc. You can PM me at suunerfan@yahoo.com.

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How are the TVs controlled currently?

I am using the TV remotes just to trun them on and off

As an idea' date=' you could install another HTC at the TV location to use the IR from that HTC. You have an HTC or Media Cotnroller in the closet and an HTC at the TV with plenty of IR and 1 serial port.[/quote']

I am looking into that. When I upgrade to the Media Controller I thought about using the HTC behind one of the TV's. I do not want it to show at all as I have "Clean Install" through the guest house. Meaning all AV gear is hidden in the AV closet. I did it this way so guest do not fool with the actual components.

FYI - My installer is suppose to show up at 9AM, which is in about 4 min., to drop off one last item (he was short 1 Outlet dimmer) and to pick up the check. Let's see if he's on time.

Did your installer show up on time? If I was betting, the one time he shows up on time will be to collect!

Let me know if you would like information about the dealer I am working with remotely. He can probably save you some money, and is also competent when it comes to programming etc. You can PM me at suunerfan@yahoo.com.

LOL - Well, he called at 8:30 and said he would be here at 9 AM, I told him I had to run out for 15 min and to come by around 9:15. He said ok. He showed up at 10 AM. No biggie really.

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You can also expand IR ports by using a Xantech or other IR block. From the HTC IR ports you don't even need to use a power supply with it. Then just stack all your pieces on the 1 IR port in the Composer software.

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