The great Media Server Conundrum ..

There have been some great and exciting posts and driver developments concerning media servers recently.

Wow.

Exciting times.

But lets put everything in perspective.

History:

Prior to digital media streaming, we had reached a fairly stable point where we watched and listened to media in 2 ways. By disc (CD and DVD's) and by TV (a sort of streaming via waves to your home)

Things were very stable with this "platform" for well over 20 years. The Beta vs VHS wars were over. Free to air TV gave pretty good content. All good. Basically the end user (consumer) could rely on ONE thing. If he/or she bought a CD/DVD or turned on the telly, then things were pretty much guaranteed to play (remember those days? )Ok well there were a couple of exceptions like a few weird multi channel discs and hydrids etc, but pretty much everything played 99% of the time. If you stuck to DVD's and CD's you'd be sweet.

Now Look what's happened:

Well media distribution has been turned on it's head. So many formats/companies/models/platforms/TV channels/cable TV boxes..not to mention the internet!!

What is happening out there is a return of the content and distribution wars. But like 10 times worse At least back in the Beta.VHS war we were only chosing between 2 formats

Big enterprise and business is fighting it out for *your* eyeballs and dollars. And *THEY* all think they know best how to distribute it too you. So they try to force you to watch things "their" way.

Old geezers like me (and I'm sure there are others on the forum) have had the old way of doing things turned on it's head, and we are struggling to keep up. We often then lash out in frustration. I sense this is a reaction. We are longing for the "Old" way, when things just worked and every format was pretty much guaranteed to play.

And that's pretty much the problem as I see it with things right now. You need a phd in computers, and heaps of time on your hands to "reformat", media scan, catagorize, etc just to get a movie playing..

We have all these great new media libraries and Control4 solutions coming out. And they look fantastic. But you know what?.. Each and everyone is *NOT* guaranteed to play *all* content.

At the end of the day, my guess is that is what matters to 99% of folk out there. And until the DRM issue is well and truly sorted, I am afraid we are still going to have issues, controversy, disputes and lively discuss on the forum as to which server/media library/driver/player works better..

So, I don't really care which library looks best, or which driver integrates better. Each to their own. What matters to me is that they play EVERYTHING. They don't. When that happens, I will really start to get excited.

Until that day

Cheers

Nitro. I can't buy these changers in my part of the world, they have never been available here, and in any case don't run on 240V as far as I know. They are also region protected to the US..

As for JRiver running Apple DRM movies, that's news to me..

Now if/when JRiver did support Apple DRM movies/TV (not music which it already does)...well now..THAT would be a game changer I agree..

Cheers

I can't recommend the Sony BDP-CX 7000ES to anyone. I have one and it is a total POS! LOL

It continually gets the invalid disc error and movies that used to work simply quit working after a while but play fine in any other player. I have sent the thing into Sony and they replaced the Bluray Laser. Well, after 2 months we're back at it again. It's no wonder this machine isn't being made anymore.

The 777-ES is a solid unit. To me playing a physical disc has always been more reliable than streaming (even local streaming). But they are aging and starting to act up, and I have switched dd Smart server.

Even if I wanted to stay disc, changers dont hold enough.

I have 3 Sony BDP-CX 7000ES changers. Do you have the latest driver from Control4. It was released in January 2012. I had that issue in the past, but I don't have it now. I also have gracenote off, basically I was told it was error with meta data. The reason that machine isn't made is based on the Analog Sunset law. Any blu-ray player released after 12/31/10 can output nothing better than 480i or 576i on component video. Existing models could continue to be manufactured and sold until 12/31/11. Now they can't even sell them.

There's one more step to the sunset law. Are you ready for this? "No Licensed Player that passes Decrypted AACS Content to analog video outputs may be manufactured or sold by Adopter after December 31, 2013." In other words, Blu-ray playback over composite, S-video or component outputs will be disabled.

All in the name of copy protection.

Nitro

Hi Nitro, I believe I had the latest driver installed early his year. What's the latest version? I'm running HDMI everywhere via my Atlona 8X8 so I'm ready for Sunset. When it works I'm happy with the player but like I said it is becoming very unreliable. From what I have read on AVS and other forums they have been very poor long term due to issues with the laser not detecting Blurays and eating discs or actually burning them with the laser. I've only had one Bluray torched so far myself. When I say torched I mean the disc was melted with black nodules on the surface. Sony replaced my disc and the laser for free. All of my regular DVD's are fine it's a Bluray issue as the laser ages but the invalid disc has returned so I need to go walk away from the beast

^ Nitro, as I said in my OP (or I thought I did), the reality is the world has moved on from disc playback. But unfortunately into a whole new uncertain world.

Disc playback is finished. Caput. No more. Dead. Google the Monty Python "dead parrot" skit.

There is no going back.

The real question is where to now. And how long it will take for the DRM nonsense to break apart and die, so all formats play within all movie libraries and on all players.

And no, I'm not talking about the latest 4G video stream or codec here. There will always be something new or better. What I'm talking about is reaching a common standard that the majority of consumers accept. Just like DVD was that standard back in the 80,s...

That standard right now happens to be 1080p HDMI. For the vast majority of consumers...

But we still have this resolution packaged up in formats and digital file containers that are not 100% compatible with every media library and every player. Common sense needs to prevail here chaps!

^ as I said in my OP (or I thought I did), the reality is the world has moved on from disc playback. But unfortunately into a whole new uncertain world.

Disc playback is finished. Caput. No more. Dead. Google the Monty Python "dead parrot" skit.

There is no going back.

The real question is where to now. And how long it will take for the DRM nonsense to break apart and die, so all formats play within all movie servers and on all players.

And no, I'm not talking about the latest 4G video stream or codec here. There will always be something new or better. What I'm talking about is reaching a common standard that the majority of consumers accept. Just like DVD was that standard back in the 80,s...

That standard right now happens to be 1080p HDMI. For the vast majority of consumers...

But we still have this resolution packaged up in formats and digital file containers that are not 100% compatible with every media library and every player. Common sense needs to prevail here chaps!

You won't be seeing me buy another multidisc player that's for sure. The closest thing to bulletproof in terms of media playback is going to be a HTPC because you can add codecs. That being said, I see there are a crop of new med8er player coming out that are supposedly full HDMI 1.4 3D and new Dune players. My dilemma is what to do. So for now I'm starting to rip to iso's but that's another issue. Many suggest you rip to file instead of iso's for future playback enhancements. I'm not sure what that might be either?

Thanks Nitro

If you can post *any* link that confirms JRiver will play Apple DRM m4v's I'll be glad to look at it.

That is Apple DRM straight from the iTunes store...

Careful what you read out there. So much mis-information

Hmmmm... I do like the look of JRiver especially if it would integrate with Control4and run on Apple.

Nitro. The industry can't even get the 1080p standard happily working in a media library. Apple has theirs locked in a DRM container. Some other Cable Tv another. The Movie consortium..what was it again???... I've forgotten..a third etc etec.

You keep missing the point. The point is no movie library server solution out there that I know of can play all available 1080p formats. And that's 2D. A video resolution that's been around 10yrs plus. We still don't even have that!!!

Forget about what might be in the future.

I'm just trying to find a media library solution that can play all the formats available *now*

Cheers. I'm now finished with this thread

Thanks Nitro I'll give that a shot!

Ok. Not done quite yet

Nitro, I'm still not sure you know where I am coming from. I'm not talking DVD or BluRay regions..even PAL vs NTSC. Any half decent media player will handle both these on their ear (like the Dune)

Nor am I talking about what format codec to rip too. That's easy. iso or .mkv Depending on whatever you want (full menu = iso or just the movie = mvk..)

What I am talking about is DRM... and what to do about it...

So sure. You have a bunch of mkv's, iso's, even handrake m4v's... You have backed up your discs. Then suppose your family continues to purchase itunes DRM movies and TV series off the itunes store...

Then some kid friend gives your daughter a movie from WalMart as a gift with that silly DRM on it..what's it called Oh yeh... UltraViolet...

The issue is how do you get all these format/codecs playing from the one movie library.

You can't (as far as I know) unless you use my AppleTV1 solution. (minus the ultraviolet which I can't get here thank the lord )

Anyway..

You can't do it using Mymovies (won't play AppleDRM mv4)

You can't using JRiver (wont play AppleDRM m4v)

You can't using itunes (won't play mkv or iso)

You can't using WMC

You can't using Savant itunes (can't play iso?? and mkv??)

Or the famous XBMC, or Plex...or...

And then what to do about Ultraviolet...

...etc etc...

Now sure, you can "process" the AppleDRM, or the ultravioletDRM file using one of those illegal Chinese "converters"..but all that does is re-record the movie using VLC or something like that. It doesn't actually extract the DRM code off the file (leaving the actual movie alone). If you use one of these "method's"...you are re-recording the file INTO A LESSER RESOLUTION... Sure, you wind up with a .m4v (minus the DRM).. the codec might be the same..and sure the file might *then* play in JRiver, but the movie file is a crappy re-record off the mac in some rubbish frame rate or resolution..like 1920x1080 scaled down to 712x 252 or whatever..

There was a "solution" with appleDRM once I recall a while back (forgotten it's name) using some sort of torrent share.. but I don't want to use torrents.. In any case newer versions of itunes blocked this DRM extraction..

Geez..why does a paying customer have to jump thru so many hoops in all this, when the torrent guys continue to rip us all off for nicks. And Apple makes it hard for THE GOOD GUY'S who pay for the stuff... I mean...WTF .... !!!!

^ I know it may be hard for American's or other's across the other side of the world to sometimes understand why I am so passionate about these sort of things, but you have to understand so much content is *not* readily available here... at best in a timely matter (it comes like months later) and at worst never available AT ALL..

So itunes is a great way to purchase content that you can't actually buy here on disc. Or ever get to see on the TV.. It's pretty much all we have (if you want to actually do the right thing and purchase the stuff) I mean how silly am I

You guys are very spoilt.. with upteen different cable companies, things like Hulu and every possible movie available at the drop of a hat...and 400 strong disc changers to play them from etc..

It's not like that here..

On that note good night gentleman..

Happy Control4ing

So an app that can route to different players by file type and has a media player driver from control4 should be able to handle DRM just fine.

If I can get media handling to pass through to my Windows control app, I could add this feature

So an app that can route to different players by file type and has a media player driver from control4 should be able to handle DRM just fine.

If I can get media handling to pass through to my Windows control app, I could add this feature

Well sure, if it works. That way you could use whatever player you wanted to play the file..

But you would still need to run at least two media libraries... right?

At least using the Control4 media library, there is a way to play pretty much every file. (In a similar way). see http://www.c4diy.com/review-the-extra-vegetables-appletv1-solution The trouble is the Control4 media library looks so terrible... functionally it's difficult and cumbersome to use. Way quicker with an HC800, but still looks like a movie library program out of the 80's...

With all these Mymovies and other drivers coming out, the worry is Control4 itself won't bother now anymore to improve how their very own library program works.

Maybe they can't improve things much (because it is a limitation of linux). Not sure on that. But there you have it..

I think I can get something working for an HTPC that uses just Control4 Media library and based on file extension (and full path and file sent) the application can route the request to a specific player on the HTPC.

This would fix pretty much all your DRM issues, would it not?