Load type of C4 wireless switches and wireless outylet switches

I thought I would post this here as I think it is very important.

There was a question posted on the dealer forum about the load types that the C4 wireless switch could control. Basically the switch should *NOT* be used to control incandescent bulbs. Here is part of the post regarding this.

The Load Type rating printed on the Wireless Switch is correct. The relay in the Switch is *NOT* rated for incandescents. It should *not* be used for incandescents.

To control incandescents, use a Control4 Dimmer, not a Control4 Switch.

Apparently, the issue is that because of the huge inrush current of incandescent bulbs (when the filament is cold, it's resistance is basically nil), the relay contacts can weld shut, and your Control4 switch will not disconnect the load.

Hi,

Thanks for posting this!

One question - I have dimmers everywhere in my house controlling the incandescent lighting. The one exception is multi gang swiches. Control 4 told my electritian the only way these work is to install one dimmer, and then all the rest are switches (so I'm talking about when 3 or 4 light switches control the same light).

I'm assuming this is OK, and does not apply to this post?

Thanks

Dave

One should be a dimmer and the other 3 or 4 should be two-button keypads.

You have to be kidding me. These switches can't handle a simple light bulb?

str1der,

It's not an issue that the switch cannot switch a simple light bulb, it's that the relay in it is not rated for incandescent use. Incandescent loads are different than simple resistive loads. The inrush current for incandescents can be 10-15x their 'warmed up' current.

As I posted on the C4 forums, other manufacturers' switches also have switches that have a much smaller incandescent rating than resistive rating.

Bottom line, if you're doing incandescents, use a dimmer.

If you're doing 3-way circuits, do one end as a dimmer, the other as a 2-button keypad, not a dimmer or a switch.

RyanE

So I guess it's safe to say never by a switch unless you know you will never have anything except something like compact floresent or you're controlling a ceiling fan.

So is Control4 isssuing a recall and replacing EVERYONE's switches for free with either a dimmer or keypad instead?

They should.

http://www.control4.com/documents/briefs/Control4-WirelessSwitch.pdf

How lame. Now I have to go remove and replace 2 switches which become worthless.

From the C4 Switch Document:

"Automatically switch on the porch

light at dusk. Turn the children’s

bedroom lights off during the day to

save electricity. Automatically start

the ceiling fan when the temperature

hits 75 degrees."

I guess they expect you to use fluorescent bulbs on your porch and children's room! Just kidding, they should have put a note in that brochure saying they can't control incandescent bulbs.

Ok so what about halogens?

I'm pretty sure halogens are still incandescents, no?

Interestingly enough, halogens are listed on the device types that it supports. I'm not sure if Halogens have a faster heat-up time because the quartz envelope on the halogen keeps the heat from the filament in or what.

RyanE

I'm pretty sure halogens are still incandescents, no?

Yes but they seem to work fine and are listed as Ryan said?

my kitchen lights have indeed fried a switch. Go with a dimmer and tell it the ramp up time is 0... there... its now a switch. problem solved.

Hi,

Thanks for posting this!

One question - I have dimmers everywhere in my house controlling the incandescent lighting. The one exception is multi gang swiches. Control 4 told my electritian the only way these work is to install one dimmer, and then all the rest are switches (so I'm talking about when 3 or 4 light switches control the same light).

I'm assuming this is OK, and does not apply to this post?

Thanks

Dave

I think these would be referred to as multi-POLE switches, where you have multiple control points for the same circuit. Multi-GANG switches are where you have more than one switch "ganged up" together in the same box.

I have only one switch in the house, controlling a fan, everything else is a dimmer, but I do have 3- and 4- and even one 5-gang set of C4 dimmers . . . is there any problem or C4 recommendation against multi-gang dimmer clusters?

And I'd agree with the comment that the easiest thing to do is just use dimmers everywhere and have the ramp time be 0. The only exception is fans, where motors should never be controlled by a dimmer.

--Jason

I agree with Jason - that's ALL we sell are dimmers (even when customers request switches) and just set them to 0 on ramp times. This way it allows us for some great programming (ie: flash lights when the bugler alarm goes off - or you feel like playing 70's music). But for fans, garbage disposals or anything with a motor attached to it - we always use switches only (just like Jason said - you'll burn the motors up if you don't). The cost is the exact same (dimmer vs. switch) - so just do it!

I have only one switch in the house, controlling a fan, everything else is a dimmer, but I do have 3- and 4- and even one 5-gang set of C4 dimmers . . . is there any problem or C4 recommendation against multi-gang dimmer clusters?

--Jason

yes there are limits to how many you can put together in one box. I'm not sure of the ratio but your power rating for the dimmer goes down as you add more into one box. Not sure of the limit. It's due to heat i think. 5 in one box is quite a bit. If they are spaced real good with plenty of air behind them then i wouldn't worry too much, but if you are putting a large load on em id be cocerned. also every time you take off a metal tab on the dimmer you loose 200w or something like that.

-steve

maybe off topic, but if you have a dimmer with the ramp-up time set to zero, could the dimmer then control a non dimmable cfl?

thanks,

tum

maybe off topic, but if you have a dimmer with the ramp-up time set to zero, could the dimmer then control a non dimmable cfl?

thanks,

tum

yeah i had this question once too... cant remember the official response. But the way i see it is if you hold down a dimmer button regardless of its ramp time it still dims... so that would be the issue there i think. so for cfls and motors I use switches...

maybe off topic, but if you have a dimmer with the ramp-up time set to zero, could the dimmer then control a non dimmable cfl?

thanks,

tum

Unfortunately, changing the ramp rate may make the C4 dimmer appear to behave like it is a C4 switch but it is not. The C4 dimmer is still a triac based and can never have the same electrical characteristics as a C4 Switch, which is a relay based device. Changing the ramp rate does not change the devices the C4 dimmer is rated for, so it is still not a *correct* solution. It probably would not pass most electrical code inspections.

If you would like to read more about triacs see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triac and for dimmers see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimmer

Just read that incandesents are going to be banned by 2014. So what will everyone use with their dimmers? Are there dimmable cfls?

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59298

There are dimmable CFL's being developed, we'll show one or two in the partner pavilion at CES.

I also think there will be more efficient halogens and incandescents (and maybe LED lighting that could be dimmable) by the deadline, there are too many electronic dimmers in the world to ignore them.

If there aren't any alternatives, I'll be stockpiling...

RyanE

Home Depot claims they will have dimmable CFL's in Q1 2008

If there aren't any alternatives, I'll be stockpiling...

Does anyone know whether this also affects halogen bulbs? According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halogen_lamp they are a type of incandescent bulb.

I can understand phasing out fixtures so that there are no new incandescent fixtures being made, but if such a ban were to apply to halogen bulbs as well (where there are no current alternatives) then what do I do with the 100+ recessed MR16 fixtures in my ceiling?

At an average lifespan of a couple of years, and with me planning to live in this house for the next 50 years or so, that's going to be quite a stockpile!