Popcorn Hour

Hi All -

I know we've talked about this before, but wanted to resuscitate this thread. Anyone have PH in their set up and want to give some feedback on it, particularly using it with C4. The reviews on the product are off the charts and i'm thinking about adding it to my set up.

Thanks in advance for your comments.

FWIW, I was told it isn't ready for primetime yet. There are a few issues with it including multiple reboots. Other than that, I've heard its a great little device.

You can control Popcorn hour via IP with control4. Note the driver only supports the transport buttons.

Primetime is all relevant... as the concept behind the device requires that people RIP their DVDs or BluRay material to it... 99.9% of customers will NOT want to do this. So if you're that .1% (like me) - than it "IS" ready for your use now / today. If you're looking for a simple solution - this isn't it - you're looking for Kaladascape at much more $$$.

so what is the concensus regarding a 777 replacement? Is everyone thinking a physical media device like the 777, or something like VUDU or the Popcorn Hour? I'm really curious, I LOVE my 777, but what about when and if something happens to it..etc

I am not sure what is next. I have enjoyed appleTV as part of my system. Great movies to rent, buy, and now I can pump my itunes through my house.

I've done some looking at the PH product, at the TViX stuff, the Netgear product, etc. I'd really love to add something to my system to support streaming of video from my network to my Control 4 system. Right now, the VUDU and other proprietary options scare me because I worry they'll disappear. Is there a consensus around products like PH regarding which is "best" for the gear monkeys, which have been integrated into C4, where drivers exist, etc?

The popcorn hour requires a telnet mod to achieve IP communications. XBMC has been integrated with IP communications as well. Neither of these have an autoscan feature unfortunately so coverart on the c4 side of things is a no no at the moment. There is however another product being sold out of utah that does do cover art. It is being showcased at CEDIA at the moment. i won't spoil the surprise.

The zatabit guy?

See, that's not fair..... What is it?

yeah zatabit. He gave me a nice demo over the web. Product seems pretty good.

Right on Alan, I've heard good things, but have not seen it in person. Keep us posted please.

so what is the concensus regarding a 777 replacement? Is everyone thinking a physical media device like the 777, or something like VUDU or the Popcorn Hour? I'm really curious, I LOVE my 777, but what about when and if something happens to it..etc

Right now nothing is going to happen in download / hard drive space - UNTIL certain laws are changed. It's too risky for any company (other than the one luck one - but even their license is up to be renewed soon - and we'll see how that turns out). So I think the new Sony 400 Disc Blu Ray will be an instance success as a replacement to the 777. Just wished we knew price and when. We're GUESSING (and the Sony rep just kinda smiled) that it's going to be double the cost of the 777... so around $1500 or so. One guy said Spring 2009 - another said mid year 2009... so it's still a ways off at the soonest.

Slemay -

I'm going to disagree with you on your point that nothing is going to happen until certain laws are changed. While license/DRM issues will continue to drag on, and perhaps not a complete solution might not be inevitable, we're already seeing many great products that solve part of the problem - cobbling together the right tools today gets you to a pretty nice solution that that will only get more elegant over time - believe me, the studios already know this. However, we can agree to disagree on that. Also, on your previous point about 99% of population will not utilize these tools - I agree, just that most of the folks on this forum are the 1%.

In the end, I'm just looking for more feedback on Popcorn Hour or any of the others. So anyone who has played around with it, particularly with C4, please weigh in here. Thanks.

ps - interesting article from Glaser and Real Networks latest product launch...

The New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/08/technology/08dvd.html?ref=technology

RealNetworks to Introduce a DVD Copier

By BRAD STONE

Published: September 8, 2008

People have been avidly feeding music CDs into their computers for years, ripping digital copies of albums and transferring the files to their other computers and mobile devices.

This has not happened nearly as much with DVDs, for both practical and legal reasons. But that may soon change.

On Monday, RealNetworks, the digital media company in Seattle, will introduce RealDVD, a $30 software program for Windows computers that allows users to easily make a digital copy of an entire DVD — down to the extras and artwork from the box.

Robert Glaser, chief executive of RealNetworks, called it “a compelling and very responsible product that gives consumers a way to do something they have always wanted to do,” like make backup copies of favorite discs and take movies with them on their laptops when they travel.

But RealDVD is also sure to be a controversial product — one that will easily earn its maker the ire of Hollywood’s powerful and litigious movie studios.

Since the DVD format was introduced more than a decade ago, Hollywood has unremittingly sought to protect the DVD from the fate that befell the CD, which has no mechanism to prevent copying.

Pirate music services like Napster sparked the digital music revolution. The ability of regular consumers to make digital copies of CDs easily with their computers fed such services and, in Hollywood’s view, led to the weakening of the major music labels.

A vibrant movie rental market makes the threat of widespread DVD copying even more ominous. If people who lack technical knowledge can easily copy DVDs, Hollywood worries, they will stop buying DVDs and instead simply visit the local Blockbuster to “rent, rip and return.”

To stave off this outcome and protect what is now $16 billion in annual DVD sales, studios and consumer electronics companies have enveloped their discs with encryption that is intended to prevent copying.

They also regularly go to court to fight any company that offers software to break the encryption. More than five years ago, several studios and the Motion Picture Association of America sued 321 Studios, a company in St. Louis, that had sold the popular program DVD X Copy. A judge ruled that the software violated the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, and the company closed in 2004.

Since then, anyone who wanted to make a backup copy of his “Star Wars” or “Lost” DVDs had to turn to free but illegal programs on the Web, with names like Handbrake and Mac the Ripper. These programs are hard to legally stop because they have many creators who are typically overseas and have few resources. They are used mostly by sophisticated Internet aficionados who may just as easily download movies directly from illicit file-sharing services.

Now RealNetworks believes that the industry’s legal stranglehold on DVD copying has begun to weaken. In March 2007, the DVD Copy Control Association, an alliance that licenses the encryption for DVDs, lost a lawsuit against Kaleidescape, a Silicon Valley start-up company that sells a $10,000 computer server that makes and stores digital copies of up to 500 films.

The DVD association has appealed the ruling. But Mr. Glaser thinks the decision has created the framework for a legal DVD copying product with built-in restrictions to prevent piracy.

The software, which will go on sale on Real.com and Amazon.com this month, will allow buyers to make one copy of a DVD, playable only on the computer where it was made. The user can transfer that copy to up to five other Windows computers, but only by buying additional copies of the software for $20 each. The software does not work on high-definition Blu-ray discs, which the movie industry has even more aggressively sought to protect from illicit copying.

“If you look at the functionality of the product, we have put in significant barriers so people don’t just take this and put it on peer-to-peer networks,” Mr. Glaser said. “I think we’ve been really respectful of the legitimate interests of rights holders.”

Bill Rosenblatt, editor of the online newsletter DRM Watch, said the future for RealDVD probably depends on the outcome of the Kaleidescape appeal. If a higher court reverses the decision and hands the movie industry a decisive victory over DVD copying technology, “Real will have to withdraw the product and could get sued,” he said.

RealNetworks began informing the studios of its new product late last week. Representatives for several major studios and the copy association declined to comment, saying they wanted to examine the software first.

However, one technology executive at a major studio, who did not want to be named because the matter is legally delicate, predicted there would be staunch resistance to RealDVD. He also questioned Real’s motives.

“When so much of their success depends on having reasonable relationships with content owners, you wonder why they would be quite so bold in doing this, unless they are desperate,” this executive said.

“Desperate” may not be quite the right word, but the company could use a hit product. RealNetworks was among the first in the mid-’90s to introduce software to play digital audio and video on the Web.

More recently, despite the steady growth of its Rhapsody subscription music service and RealArcade gaming service, RealNetworks has been eclipsed by other digital media companies, including Apple and Amazon. Its stock is down sharply over the last two years.

Mr. Glaser, however, thinks RealDVD will have widespread appeal, and he is already pondering its future. He says the software could eventually work across home networks and play movies on televisions, instead of just computer screens.

He also plans to solicit the cooperation of movie studios, which he says could sell digital copies of movies and TV shows to people who rip their own DVDs. So, for example, someone who copied the first season of “Mad Men” would be a prime candidate to buy and download Season 2.

“Once you give consumers a legitimate path, you can do all kinds of other interesting things with them,” he said.

Slemay -

I'm going to disagree with you on your point that nothing is going to happen until certain laws are changed. While license/DRM issues will continue to drag on, and perhaps not a complete solution might not be inevitable, we're already seeing many great products that solve part of the problem - cobbling together the right tools today gets you to a pretty nice solution that that will only get more elegant over time - believe me, the studios already know this. However, we can agree to disagree on that. Also, on your previous point about 99% of population will not utilize these tools - I agree, just that most of the folks on this forum are the 1%.

I'm not saying things won't happen - it just won't happen LEGALLY. What you and I do in our homes is up to us - but as the law currently stands, if we rip a DVD or BluRay disc - we have broken a FEDERAL LAW. That law, states that bypassing or breaking an encrpytion system (such as that used on these mediums) is strictly against the law. Now when this law went into effect everyone said it's going to take some time before someone challenges it... Remember VHS and dubbing???? That's exactly where we're at all over again. I have no doubt we'll win in the end - but it's going to take some time... and I HATE that it's taking this long.

As for your other question - I have TWO Popcorn Hours that I use in my own house - they are a GREAT product for the price. There are other threads (some I've even started) that address this. They have an excellent support system in their forums etc... they seem to be very open to suggestions. Now - be fore-warned - it is still in development and comes out with regular updates / builds - each improving upon its previous version and usually improving performance etc... but - FOR THE PRICE - it's the best solution out there - for us 1%!

Shawn

I think your sony rep smiled because double the price of the 777 wont come close...on the avs forums, there's talk of that thing being in like the 10k range...just talk though.

I think your sony rep smiled because double the price of the 777 wont come close...on the avs forums, there's talk of that thing being in like the 10k range...just talk though.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/09/04/sony-shows-off-prototype-400-disc-blu-ray-mega-changer/

Sony's HES-V1000 Home Entertainment Server (200 disc changer) is going for $3,500, I hate to see how much the 400 disc one will be.

1) It won't be 10k - I'm fairly certain it'll be under 2k.

2) You can NOT compare this to the 200 disc changer - as,

a) That was a CONCEPT device (meaning it was not intended for mass market)

That has a full computer attached to it - this is JUST a disc changer

That law, states that bypassing or breaking an encryption system (such as that used on these mediums) is strictly against the law.

RealDVD and Flip4Mac's Drive-In (for the Mac) do not bypass or break CSS encryption. The issue is whether it is permitted to playback content (that retains the CSS encryption) without the original disc being present. In the Kaleidascape case, this was part of the CSS technical specs but not part of the contract that Kaleidascape signed. There are actually some media players (not licensed by the DVD CCA) that will play DVD content you drag and drop to your hard drive (which is essentially what RealDVD is doing with a bit of post "packaging"). Although it's not efficient (most movies will be 4-9 GB), it's a start and parallels the copying of music from one media to another (i.e. disc to HDD).

I just wish Digital Copies for iTunes would arrive on more DVDs!

Shawn -

Good responses to my post; thoughtful and I agree with most of it. The gray area of what constitutes breaking the law is always interesting - see Real Networks interpretation - ultimately it is not for us to decide, but agreed it will need to be ironed out before the other 99% adopt products. Waiting for Mediapoint is not going to work for me, I'll buy the Popcorn Hour. Thanks.

Real Networks isn't breaking the CSS (as Bog already stated) - they're transferring the license - HOWEVER - and I agree with BOG - that issue comes back to the Macrovision encryption agreement - that the media MUST be present - even if ripped... so how Real is getting around that - dunno. Kaleidascape won the first round on that - but there is large speculation that when their license is up for renewal - they will be denied... so it's a very large gray area right now - and it really really stinks!

Came upon this new story - thought it was relevant to this discussion as an FYI:

http://www.cepro.com/article/can_you_be_sued_for_helping_clients_rip_dvds