AASV Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 I am sure I can't be the only dealer extremely frustrated with the software upgrades. It seems that every time they fix one problem they create 10 more.I sell a lot of Denon equipment and have a huge customer base that I would like to offer Control4 equipment. C4 supposedly supports the Denon equip with both serial and IR drivers. They have the codes in correctly but unfortunately, the power macros don’t control the zones correctly. Nor do the macros for selecting discreet presets work even though they have the codes in the driver! In version 1.2.4 I had created a work around to select the presets that worked but with the 1.2.4.5 upgrade they decided to change how the C4 selects stations. Now the C4 will only toggle the AM/FM band on the tuner, totally useless. Worse, all of the previous C4 installations I did with Denon tuners don’t work. I have to go back and try and fix the problem on more than 10 systems this week alone!!!CAN YOU SAY LOST PROFIT!!!!!!!To compound my frustration when I called tech support they said sorry but they didn’t have a solution and “might” fix it in the next software upgrade. MIGHT!?!? Ok, so I can’t count on a C4 solution. I asked if the Developers kit ($2,000 cost) would give me the ability to fix the issues with the Drivers. Shocker, the tech didn’t know what access the Developers Kit would give or what it could fix, because it is a third party supplier who makes the kit. So I have to shell out $2k on a possible fix??CAN YOU SAY LOST PROFIT AGAIN!!!!!!!!So I decided to climb the ladder and speak to my inside and outside sales rep. I could not reach either on Thursday March 30th. I left very detailed messages with both along with a plea to call me back ASAP. Today is Wednesday April 5th and I have yet to receive a call from either. I don’t know where to turn for help. But I am sure not getting the support I expected from Control4. I am getting very hesitant in recommending and/or installing a product I can’t rely on to work. I bought in to Control4 as a product easy to install and support, something that it has yet to prove. What is really lacking is the ability to fix programming issues ourselves instead of waiting for a software patch that has a high probability of creating more support issues.Does anyone have similar issues? Any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dburton Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 My first installation was in my own home 6 months ago. Since then, I have had about 2 problems a month. If you have to visit every customer twice a month to fix problems, you couldn't support very many customers - and there is no income for supporting problem fixes. C4 needs to make thier system rock solid. And while they are fixing bugs, they need to post a know bug list for the dealers! I'm tired of discovering bugs they already know about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEBOZ Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Amen,I spent over 6 hours per tech (2) today working on the linking of dimmers to 2-button keypads for three-way applications. The linking would work but not efficient. Sometimes the light my increase 20% or 30% or 60% or 100% and then the next time it would increase the full 100% on the first press. The other thing is the LED mirroring the dimmer, does not work worth a crap. This seems so easy. We tried everyway, with Tech on phone, and could not get the linking to work on some KP's. The software does not match up with what is on the actual keypad, or for that matter what is on the keypad in programming. Example, if you look at the dimmer and button one shows blue at top and black at bottom, and then the on button shows red, and the off button shows green, or whatever, and then the keypad is totally different colors. The only way we got it to work was to select Keypad managed and change the color for button 1 and 2 and then uncheck keypad managed. It worked on about 20 out of 25 keypads. Some it did not work immediately, but 15 minutes later it started to work. VERY VERY VERY VERY INCONSISTENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So the bug fix IS NOT A FIX. On a system that has a few keypads linked to dimmers, no problem, a large system HELL NO. Also with the update we were only to stream 2 steams of audio from the MC. The C4 amp would show that 3 steams were working, but guess what NO SOUND. Then all of the sudden out of left field the C4 angels made it work. It started working all of the sudden. BUT what sucks is you spend 3-4 hours troubleshooting and second guessing yourself and then it works and you were back were you started with all the bindings and connections the same as they were when the problem started. It is so hard to install a product right and it does not work and you have C4 Tech say "Well everything sounds right to me, DUH?". I dont know why it is not working, it should", no crap it should but it isnt. Anyway sorry for the rant, it just sucks to spend so much time and money and get no return. By the way what is the name of the person at C4 that I need to send my billing to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxspivak Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 When you say "C4 angels made it work", what do you actually mean? Did it just start working or was something done to fix it?Could it be that the multitude of dimmers were being upgraded (via zigbee) to the current firmware while you were trying to link them and make them work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EldonG Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 I offer no excuse or explanation here, only an observation. I find that dimmer and keypad controls are very flaky upon initial installation and immediately after an upgrade. In my own home, I've found that that if I'll leave things alone until the firmware is upgraded (done automagically via ZigBee), things work much more predictably. You can check the firmware revision in Composer via Tools, Network Status, ZigBee network. The keypad firmware should be at 1.09.55 and the dimmer/switch firmware should be at 1.09.84.-Eldon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshepherd Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Agreed on the firmware issue. I just went through the same thing yesterday. Maybe a self-enforced "cooling off" period to allow everything to update properly? Frustrating nevertheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEBOZ Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Yes I mean they just started working all of the sudden. I went back to the house 24 hours later and still had problems with the dimming from the keypads, they would dim at odd percentages and sometimes right. Like I said, very unpredictable and not efficient at all on large systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AS2 Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 We've definately adopted an 'install-dimmers-&-set-up-HTC/MC-then-wait-24-hours' approach to this. Most dimmers/switches/keypads start to update within a half hour, but some take longer. There is no reason to identify or program them until they've finished with this routine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfleck Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 i think most of us "I.T." guys fully understand the "24 hour burn-in" process. we have been doing it for years. - bulid a machine- fire up and install O/S- install/configure drivers- do all O/S updates- let it run some lame diagnostics for 24 hours i have a electrical wall box on my bench that holds three switches i made with a wall plug that also has light sockets attached ... it plugs into an outlet ... and i use that to "burn-in" my light fixtures. (i also have a box of RMA's that i didn't have to install at the clients house - that i will someday find the time to send back).the idea that a simple light switch/dimmer is not so simple and contains some embedded O/S may take a little while for new IT people to appreciate.right now i would say that all C4 devices are so infant in their development that we see small updates very often, which are very helpful but are also frustrating. i think in a year or so when we see bigger update packages far less frequently we will all be happier. but for now, i appreciate the many small fixes.it's all about balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvasantamonica Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 I am sorry I am catching this so many months after you wrote this. I hope this is still helpful. I sell Denon every now and again and I , too, experienced issues with the drivers C4 had already programmed. They Suck. I simply built my own drivers for Zone 1 and 2. The reason they shut off the main zone and turn it on again had to do with the logic they used to build the driver wizard. This has signifigantly improved with 1.3; however, I still think it is better to always build your own drivers for each zone. All you have to do is build a driver with all the zone 2 codes, drop that receiver into each room you are using the Zone 2 processor and bind the Zone 2 receiver to the same IR or Serial output. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danlevine Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Hi Tvasantamonica...You can bind multiple IR devices to the same port but this isn't possible to do with a Serial Port. If you are going to use a serial driver you must do it all within one driver. We have found with 1.3 and the newer drivers they have been quite good. Some take some minor tweaking but overall have been very sucessful with denon drivers.Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingzz Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Hi Tvasantamonica...You can bind multiple IR devices to the same port but this isn't possible to do with a Serial Port. If you are going to use a serial driver you must do it all within one driver. We have found with 1.3 and the newer drivers they have been quite good. Some take some minor tweaking but overall have been very sucessful with denon drivers.Dando you have one that handles the zone 3 off command without shutting the reciever off and getting the mute command to work??? I still have these issues with the 4306 I have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvasantamonica Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 Yes. I was not clear in mentioning thatmy suggestion applied only to IR control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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