Composer Pro Software

[K&J]

While I'm not directing this toward anyone in particular, I feel that there are some individuals on this forum that are asking questions that should not be asked by an end user of the product.

That is of course unless you have Composer Pro Software.

That would bring up another issue.

How or Where did you obtain your copy of Composer Pro.

I do realize there are individuals that will always try to hack or obtain copies of something they shouldn't have in the first place.

OK, you obtained this by "Hook or by Crook" if you will. You are obviously intelligent enough to navigate your way through Composer Pro.

I also have customers that are intelligent enough to operate this software, one of which is also a member of this forum. These customers however have decided to take the "High Road".

Those of you who have this software realize this is illegal, this is pirating. Regardless if you were given this software or obtained it by other means.

You have this illegally and now want to come to a forum to ask questions to set up scenarios or whatever. Do you not see the irony in this?

I am a very caring and giving person and will always assist if I can.

However, don't steal from me and then expect me to assist you operating what you have illegally obtained.

I will always assist those that are asking questions that are HE related.

I am not the forum police but simply wanted to voice my opinion on this matter. I don't know if this particular subject has come up on this forum prior to today, so forgive me if this is a repetitive statement.

This from Paul Williams, VP Support Services Control 4.

Control4 is very concerned about the illegal distribution of our ComposerPro software. It is a topic that we devote time in preventing.

You can help us police the problem by reporting anyone who is distributing ComposerPro, selling ComposerPro, or posting ComposerPro on forums or other websites. Your report will remain anonymous to the offender.

We will have our legal department contact the offenders and we will stop the illegal distribution.

You can contact me directly with infringement reports.

Paul Williams, V.P. Support Services

801-***-****

[waynechi]

It would be nice if Paul Williams decided to contribute to this forum directly so he wouldn't need to be invoked by others. What "great topic and great thread" is he talking about?

[jbs]

I'm guessing that Paul did not intend to share his email or phone number on the internet, so I hope you don't mind but I've edited those out of your post. If you feel strongly otherwise feel free to add them back. Just trying to be helpful in case you're not aware of the ability of spambots to harvest email addresses from forums like this and inundate the owner with spam . . .

--Jason

[K&J]

Thank You..

I should have changed it like I did my own.

That was a post off a C4 forum in reference to this very subject.

[Seefour]

asking questions that should not be asked by an end user of the product.

Not sure if you are referring to this, but loops have come up several times when referring to the difference between HE and Pro. My curiosity finally led me to seeking input on what they were for. I too was looking to see if I was missing out on anything with my system, but thanks to the answers, it appears not.

I appreciated the time you took to communicate your thoughts. I think though, you are asking for a lot with your comment "questions that should not be asked by an end user of the product"! I have invested a good amount of my money and time into this product and would like to hope that questions can be answered as best they can, respecting peoples time that is given for free. I have found a wealth of information here that my dealer and I have benefited from. The vast majority of the replies to my questions have come from dealers so I appreciate that.

Many end users contributing to this forum are likely similar to me; engaged, knowledgeable customers who wish to see all the potential of the money and time we have invested realized (benefit for dealers: customers happy = more purchases). Could you be making the wrong assumptions with your opening comments, that may speak more to the intrigue of an educated user base on this forum?

Actually, the thing holding me back from putting more $$$ into C4 is the lack of access to Pro. My wish to buy more hardware from my dealer is always quickly blunted by remembering the pain coordinating our schedules to get the stuff recognized on my system. It can take weeks to do so but it shouldn't.

[K&J]

Thank You for the rebuttal's that have been coming.

Please understand this is my feelings on this subject and I do not speak for all the C4 dealers.

I am also not by any means trying to offend anyone.

The statement that I made regarding asking questions that should not be asked by an end user of the product.

This is directed to those questions that someone with Composer Pro knowledge would be asking.

My curiosity finally led me to seeking input on what they were for. I too was looking to see if I was missing out on anything with my system, but thanks to the answers, it appears not.

What are you wanting to do with your system? Scenarios, Lifestyles, Ask.. I actually enjoy this part of a conversation with my customers.

I have invested a good amount of my money and time into this product and would like to hope that questions can be answered as best they can.

I can speak only for myself on this matter.. I have a Store/Showroom with a Full compliment of C4 equipment, Stock, Training, Time invested as well.

Many end users contributing to this forum are likely similar to me; engaged, knowledgeable customers who wish to see all the potential of the money and time we have invested realized. Could you be making the wrong assumptions with your opening comments, that may speak more to the intrigue of an educated user base on this forum?

I had this in my original post:

I also have customers that are intelligent enough to operate this software, one of which is also a member of this forum.

I believe this is why I originally started this thread was to address those that was to me, more apparent they had the Composer Pro software.

Actually, the thing holding me back from putting more $$$ into C4 is the lack of access to Pro.

With this statement I am understanding that if you had Pro you would be making more purchases of equipment?

Those of you who have this software realize this is illegal, this is pirating. Regardless if you were given this software or obtained it by other means.

You have this illegally and now want to come to a forum to ask questions to set up scenarios or whatever. Do you not see the irony in this?

I am more than willing to pay (and some dealer is still getting my money when I buy hardware wink).

Or is this the reason? You do not like the idea of having to pay for programming upgrades to your system?

It is a little late so please excuse misspelling errors.

[Seefour]

With this statement I am understanding that if you had Pro you would be making more purchases of equipment?

Yes, I would make more purchases if I had Pro as it would eliminate the inconvenience to have my dealer install new hardware in a timely manner. Coordinating schedules has been difficult at times. When adding a couple of new pieces in the past I have not registered high on my dealers lists of priorities; they likely have other larger jobs setting the priority.

It has been cumbersome getting new hardware added but it may be as cumbersome for my dealer to take time to add a piece here a piece there.

Or is this the reason? You do not like the idea of having to pay for programming upgrades to your system?

No I am fine paying for upgrades as long as the support is meeting my expectations.

Maybe at the end of the day though Charmed Quark or Cinemar is the better way to go for me.

[K&J]

Seefour

Sorry to hear you have had some experiences that have left you with less than desirable satisfaction.

I personally know quite of few dealers that take pride in their customer satisfaction.

Hopefully you will find the correct company for You..

The best of luck.

[TheOracle]

I agree that I would like to expand my system but don't because of the requirements of scheduling my time versus the dealers. As my dealer is mostly interested in new installs and not upgrades, I'm usually given about 1 day a month that I have to be available. As I travel very often with my job, I can't be guaranteed to be available in 20-25 days.

As to the differences on HE and Pro, I think there is one thing most people are missing. My dealer installed a couple of loops in my installation and after playing with them, find they are wrong. Well, because HE doesn't do loops, I'm stuck with them unless the dealer does the work. Could I do the work? Absolutely, I've been in the technology business for a number of years and have programmed anything from production mainframe systems to production web applications. This is a piece of cake compared to some of those.

I did stumble onto a download of Pro while researching Control4. It was an oversight by the company leaving an FTP site open. Rest assured, it is now closed. I didn't download but certainly could have.

[jwhitaker@revit]

sometimes i find this absolutely ridiculous. your schedules conflict. well i guess you guys don't use one of the major benefits of c4. remote access. we do this all the time with people with conflicting schedules, especially on add ons. a lower level installer goes in, makes all the connections, verifies quality with picture mail with me then leaves. then me and the customer have a teleconference about programming, and do the programming while he is at home and i am comfortably on my couch. we record every call for verification and logging. we also do random teleconference check up's on systems. it's funny when listening to this, i don't ever hear crestron customers asking for the programming software? lol. you guys, call up crestron or amx and make these request, and see how fast you get left out the door. if you want your house to run like a champ, i have a list of outstanding dealers including myself that welcome a road trip, do alot of remote services, and would be more than happy to take over your account and give you the attention you need. if you just want to play with your house please go to radio shack, stop by the third display and grab some x10, and then please stop asking us how we do our jobs.

if you truly want to know what your system can do feel free to ask, just have some professional courtesy and don't ask how, unless it can be done in HE.

[K&J]

Here I was really trying to be tactful as I could possibly be..

Folks, there are MANY GOOD DEALERS out there.

If you need a recommendation just give the area you are in and I am sure we can find a replacement or use some peer pressure with your current situation.

[jwhitaker@revit]

oops was i not tactful? you know me i like the direct no bs approach. i have helped out many a customer on here by request by logging into their house and fixing stuff. and i didn't even kill them with my billing. 90% of problems can be fixed remotely. if you guys have a problem email me, send me a pm or what ever.

[K&J]

oops was i not tactful? you know me i like the direct no bs approach. i have helped out many a customer on here by request by logging into their house and fixing stuff. and i didn't even kill them with my billing. 90% of problems can be fixed remotely. if you guys have a problem email me, send me a pm or what ever.

I started laughing when I saw your post.. Just shook my head.. Glad to see someone else kinda jump in here..

It does sound like there has been some issues with less than satisfactory customer service.. That was being Tactful..

[TheOracle]

Let me understand how remote access is going to allow a dealer into my house to install hardware. If you can explain how that works by dialing in, I'll figure out how to match schedules.

Was that tactful?

And there may be other dealers but I got an estimate from another dealer and they wanted almost $1K to just review my current setup before they would even start the job. That's not a good option.

[str1der]

Hey guys if you don't like what the users are talking about why come in here. Stay in the dealer forum. I tell you right now I would never give you business after hearing how "tactful" you've been since coming here. I really liked the message in the forsale/wanted forum where someone asked about buying some equipment and you just laughed at them.

[K&J]

Let me understand how remote access is going to allow a dealer into my house to install hardware. If you can explain how that works by dialing in, I'll figure out how to match schedules.

Was that tactful?

And there may be other dealers but I got an estimate from another dealer and they wanted almost $1K to just review my current setup before they would even start the job. That's not a good option.

Sorry to hear a dealer wanted to charge that much $ to review your system..

That is Quite High..

What area are you in? Who is your current dealer?

[K&J]

Hey guys if you don't like what the users are talking about why come in here. Stay in the dealer forum. I tell you right now I would never give you business after hearing how "tactful" you've been since coming here. I really liked the message in the forsale/wanted forum where someone asked about buying some equipment and you just laughed at them.

I don't recall ever putting anything in the For Sale/Wanted Forum.

[TheOracle]

I'm in the Dallas area. I don't make it a habit of bad mouthing any dealer/business so I won't mention the company name. If you know of a good dealer, I'll try them unless they are the one quoting the high dollar review of the system.

[str1der]

Hey guys if you don't like what the users are talking about why come in here. Stay in the dealer forum. I tell you right now I would never give you business after hearing how "tactful" you've been since coming here. I really liked the message in the forsale/wanted forum where someone asked about buying some equipment and you just laughed at them.

I don't recall ever putting anything in the For Sale/Wanted Forum.

I was referring to the rude reply left by jwithaker on this thread http://www.c4forums.com/viewtopic.php?id=1898

Sorry. I should have been more specific.

[Seefour]

sometimes i find this absolutely ridiculous. your schedules conflict. well i guess you guys don't use one of the major benefits of c4. remote access.

I have done remote installs with my dealer.

I cannot say in my opinion, that it has totally eased the install of additional hardware but it has certainly helped. If you read my post, you will see that I believe that my work is not the highest priority to my dealer who may well have larger jobs needing attention. Calls and e-mails have in the past have gone unanswered. When we do manage to connect through the internet the installs go well but the time needed to get to that point is absurd in relation to the tap, tap, tap, tap workout I get.

I looked at other dealers; one did not think working solely by remote access was for them, one did not return two inquiry phone calls to personnel in the dealership and one did not seem to have a lot of experience with what I wanted installing. Currently, I am back with my old dealer. The dealer support is not meeting my expectations at this time and it is the reason I am looking at other home automation options (I like the C4 system though). I have even called my dealer to let them know how to operate one piece of C4 hardware. Now come on; that is a bit frustrating!

The C4 system though is excellent.

[K&J]

I'm in the Dallas area. I don't make it a habit of bad mouthing any dealer/business so I won't mention the company name. If you know of a good dealer, I'll try them unless they are the one quoting the high dollar review of the system.

I count 16 dealers for C4 in the Dallas Area. That is just within 25 miles of Dallas.

Is there any way to get a little more specific?

You can email me if you feel more comfortable.

[K&J]

sometimes i find this absolutely ridiculous. your schedules conflict. well i guess you guys don't use one of the major benefits of c4. remote access.

I have done remote installs with my dealer.

I cannot say in my opinion' date=' that it has totally eased the install of additional hardware but it has certainly helped. If you read my post, you will see that I believe that my work is not the highest priority to my dealer who may well have larger jobs needing attention. Calls and e-mails have in the past have gone unanswered. When we do manage to connect through the internet the installs go well but the time needed to get to that point is absurd in relation to the tap, tap, tap, tap workout I get.

I looked at other dealers; one did not think working solely by remote access was for them, one did not return two inquiry phone calls to personnel in the dealership and one did not seem to have a lot of experience with what I wanted installing. Currently, I am back with my old dealer. The dealer support is not meeting my expectations at this time and it is the reason I am looking at other home automation options (I like the C4 system though). I have even called my dealer to let them know how to operate one piece of C4 hardware. Now come on; that is a bit frustrating![/quote']

Seefour, can you give me where you live?

You can email me if you feel more comfortable.

[K&J]

I know that there are Several Dealers on this forum that feel Our Business is built with Good Customer Service.

If you are having an issue with your Dealer, I'm sure there is another one out there.

If one of my customers has/had an issue with me, I would appreciate at least a courtesy call from that customer stating the issues.

We are not mind readers, if one of my customer doesn't call me and let me know that there is an issue, I can't help them.

Shame on the Customer.

Is the customer calls and dealer does not attend to the needs of the customer within an agreed period of time.

Shame on the Dealer.

Give Your Dealer a shot.

If I assist another Dealers customer, I will try and contact that dealer. Again, I believe that would be the correct thing to do.

I would want that if another dealer were to attend to one of my customers.

Have a Good Day All!

[waynechi]

Hey guys if you don't like what the users are talking about why come in here. Stay in the dealer forum. I tell you right now I would never give you business after hearing how "tactful" you've been since coming here. I really liked the message in the forsale/wanted forum where someone asked about buying some equipment and you just laughed at them.

Just to be clear, I think we all really appreciate the dealers who actively participate on this forum (not to mention Ryan). Although a few dealers are simply blowing their own horn and trolling for work, most are not, and I personally welcome them to contribute their perspective. I wish there were more dealers and C4 management that participated (or even lurked a little more).

Its obvious to me that the home automation industry is changing and evolving quickly. While the market is booming, its not necessarily the stodgy Crestrons or AMXs that are seeing all the potential -- its companies like C4 which are based on more flexible, less proprietary, and more robust technology. But its clear that this kind of technology requires a different dealer business model and value proposition than before -- with fewer mega-projects and more mid-level stuff. C4 dealers need to adopt a different service model to make money: make traditional house calls for the bigger stuff, and leverage remote access and DIY/HE functionality for stuff that users could better do on their own. They won't make huge money on the little stuff, which is mostly client maintenance anyway, but they can do a lot more "little stuff" volume because of the leverage that these tools offer.

In my view, a lot of dealers who have lived too long in the Crestron model don't get this. They believe that all good service has to be "high touch" and put all their energy and enthusiasm into this type of service provided the customer is willing to pay. They don't proactively discuss HE with their clients, as they believe that programming is best left to the dealer. And they are completely against the idea of having a user install a light switch or a 10" wireless touchscreen on their own. They view this as stealing their business, even though the money to be made on the install of these follow-on items are small. But with hardware margins for dealers around 50%, you would think there would be a pretty lucrative business for dealers to mail a client a 10" wireless touchscreen that the user installs themselves. After all, the dealer still has the 4sight relationship, which makes that customer pretty "sticky" toward their dealer. (If I were a dealer I'd be mailing flyers to my clients pushing the DIY add-ons!). Where dealers may view DIY as "piracy", their clients may view a $75 install fee for a follow-on light switch as "gouging" (these are two extreme perspectives in my opinion).

There's a very healthy debate here that really gets to how dealers best add value for their clients and for themselves. To me, the best service is a mixed offering of high-touch and low-touch service, with the understanding that sometimes the lower-touch option really provides the best outcome for all involved.

[jwhitaker@revit]

i don't blow my my own horn, or troll for work, i am plenty busy. i am sorry if i offended anyone, i have just seen in my experience that buying froma non dealer, or installing in a diy setting is asking for trouble. i do agree that there are some highly qualified end users on this forum. as for why i come in here, i am always happy to help where the need see's fit. i do believe sale and use of any equipment by a non dealer is wrong and the same for software. in some cases it is stealing. these forums are not in my opinion to steal from a company, or go to go against c4's guidelines.i do apologize for the bluntness. thats just my 2 cent's, and c4 knows exactly where i stand on this issue. I will say if you do need help or remote access help let me know. my company, and me myself are respected in our community and do hold a decent amount of respect with c4. i would be happy to give you a hand in dallas as i am there every couple of weeks. we do free system reviews as we end up taking on alot of bad installs, some c4, but mostly crestron.

oh dang! sorry about the rude comment on the post mentioned, bad multitasking day, that is on the wrong post!! that was a response to one of shawn's post that was really funny.

i kinda do like the idea of a customer installing there own switches and touchscreens, then i could just log in to get them identified, i may have to look at this an an option! great idea waynechi!