Looking For My Next Home Automation System

[RJP]

So I’m looking to build a new house in the next six months and have started looking at home automation systems. I have some background with control systems as well as a strong IT background. In looking at all the options, from a full Crestron implementation through to some of the simple X10 stuff, nothing jumps out as being a perfect fit with respect to what I am looking for.

What I’m looking to do: Lights, HVAC (heating / air / humidifier), security cameras (recorded / accessible through TVs / Touch-screens), audio (basically audio from different sources to any room); "nice to haves" would be blinds and sprinkler system (would toss these if things got too expensive). With that preamble, I was hoping to ask a few questions about Control4; my intent is not to come across as being negative but to ask about areas where I have concerns; in many cases, I may just not understand things well enough.

1) One of the concerns I have with Control4 is the fact that I have to call a dealer to make changes; specifically add equipment. I say this with the understanding that I can make many other changes without dealer participation. With the assumption that this business model will not be changing anytime soon, can anyone outline the functionality in the Pro software that does not exist in the Home-owner package. In looking through this forum, I remember seeing one post where you needed the Pro software to change the led luminosity on the wall panels; this really made no sense to me but was curious what else was in this category?

2) I was wondering what type of selection I will have with respect to equipment (without having a bunch of custom drivers written); is there a central list that exists? I was looking to include HVAC, for example, but noticed the Control4 thermostat does not have a humidistat built in. Alternatively, when I look at the thermostats I could go with using an HAI panel, there are dozens to choose from; am I just not seeing a larger set of alternatives or is the selection as limited as it appears?

3) If I decided to go with third party switches for lighting (Lutron for example), would I simply have the dealer make the third party equipment known to the system (address it) and then go in myself to set up scenes, schedules, etc? This is based on the fact that I would prefer to do more of the configuration myself?

4) Finally, as part of the prewiring process, is there anything I should specifically do outside of running CAT5 (more likely CAT6) to any portion of the system that requires network access (e.g. touch-screens, cameras, etc.)?

Any guidance would be appreciated.

Ryan

[ichbinbose]

1. crestron is more limiting than C4 in regaurds to end user ability to change things, where as X10 is the most (X10=FAIL). With composer home you can basiclly do anything other than change equipment or drivers. Really not a big deal unless you plan on changing gear every 6 months.

2. I'm not aware of a humidistat being an option of C4, maybe someone else can chime in on this.

3. The only good reason to go with Lutron over C4 would be for cosmetic reasons as C4 can do everything Lutron can for less. Including end user programming with composer home.

4. As for wiring, well additional information is required.

[RyanE]

1) ComposerPro can basically do 3 things that ComposerHE can not do:

* ComposerHE can not add additional drivers to the project.

* ComposerHE can not change bindings between drivers (network addresses, control (serial / IR), and room / configuration).

* ComposerHE can not do loops in programming. It can do timers, and conditionals and any other programming.

2) Your choice of equipment should be considered with the dealer you are working with, as they know what brands of equipment work best with Control4, and what does not work as well. There are *not* a lot of 3rd-party thermostats, aside from Aprilaire, and the HAI thermostats (which you have to work through their security panel). There are a *lot* of choices for security and *thousands* for A/V devices, most of which are IR drivers. There is no publically-available central list of compatible equipment with Control4. If you were to post equipment you have and/or are looking at, others on the forums may be able to give you information about those particular devices.

3) Basically, yes. a Lutron system is a bit more complicated to setup, mainly because there are several ways to set it up with Control4. The recommended way is for you to use the Lutron scenes triggered from Control4. Your dealer can make virtual keypads in the Lutron system for you to fire off any Lutron programming that you may have available.

4) Wiring requirements are also going to depend heavily on the system you decide to go for. For Control4 systems, I'd say the *minimum* wiring you would want *could* include:

-- Multi-Room Audio:

* Speaker wiring 14ga or 16ga stranded in-wall speaker wiring from speaker locations to a central location

* Keypad (CAT5) wiring to in-wall locations by each door for (possibly future) touchscreens or other keypad devices

-- HVAC:

* Have your HVAC installer run as many HVAC wires as normal, but ensure that they run a common wire to the thermostat location. You may just want to specify 1 more than they would normally do.

* You may want to also run CAT5 to the thermostat locations, to install web-enabled or other controllable stats (Aprilaire)

-- Lighting:

* If doing Lutron, whatever wiring they recommend.

* If wiring 'traditional' (non-centralized) lighting, ensure that your electrician does *NOT* run any 'switch-leg' wiring. This is where they run power to the light fixtures, and a single 12-2 Romex down to the dimmer location. This configuration does not have a neutral in the wall box, and makes switch (as opposed to dimmer) installation problematic if not impossible.

-- Security:

* Hard-wire as many security locations (doors and windows) as you can afford to, they're more reliable as well as cheaper (assuming the wiring doesn't kill the budget).

* Hard-wire motion sensors back to the head end location whether or not you are doing a security panel, as you could use them for path lighting, etc.

-- IP Cameras:

* CAT5/6 to camera locations, but you may also want to run line-level video to those locations, depending on your DVR requirements / setup.

-- Theater:

* Speaker wiring from your 'theater stack' to speaker locations

* Line-level to your subwoofer location

* multiple CAT5 from your theater stack to your central automation location

-- Multi-room video:

* Multiple CAT5 to all video drops, some still recommend running Component (RGB) to each location

-- All rooms:

* Phone / Network / Video

That's all I can think off the top of my head.

RyanE

[RJP]

In asking my questions I didn't mean to imply any of the other systems were better; in fact, I've ruled a number out already (and therefore have no questions for their expert-user community). I like the Crestron architecture but couldn't live with a system where I would have to call the dealer every time I needed to make a change - just not what I'm looking for. The only reason I mentioned X10 was because it really does define the other (lowest) end of the spectrum ... not because it's a viable option.

The reason I was thinking Lutron was purely cosmetic; but now that you have described how scenes are initiated, it really does seem to add a lot of complexity for no good reason.

RyanE, ... just had a couple of follow up questions:

- My understanding is that all of the Control4 keypads utilized ZibBee rather than the regular network, did I understand that correctly?

- My assumption, when you say "line level", is you are talking about RG6 (coax)

- Can you explain a little bit further with respect to multi-room video; this is an area I haven't really researched too much.

- If I choose to utilize an aftermarket remote (say a URC) for the dedicated theater room, rather than Control4, is there still a way to integrate with the Control4 components; that is, bring the interface up on the screen and access the other components of the system? In my current configuration, my relatively old URC RF remote has been rock solid with respect to controlling both components and lighting.

Lastly, thank you both for your answers, I really appreciate it.

Ryan

[BriPink]

One other reason to consider Lutron (at least for the keypards) is that, IMHO, their switches have a more solid feel than the Control4 ones. With a Lutron switch, you really know you've clicked the switch, whereas with the Control4 switch, 1 out of 20 times I'll think I've clicked it when I really haven't. It's not really a huge deal, particularly when you consider the other advantages of a Control4 system, but it's a consideration.

[RyanE]

- My understanding is that all of the Control4 keypads utilized ZigBee rather than the regular network, did I understand that correctly?

That is correct, for what are called 2/3/6-button keypads. Those are a single-gang keypad, that looks like a Control4 dimmer, but with 2 buttons (just like a dimmer), or 3 or 6 buttons. Those keypads do not require any wiring, except for power.

I recommend pulling CAT5 to what I consider 'keypad' locations (typically one wall per room, to eye height, somewhere by the door), because there are other keypads, like the LCD Keypad and dedicated touchpanels, which can all be run on CAT5. If you don't have CAT5 in keypad locations, you can't use those locations for higher-function keypads later on down the line, if desired.

- My assumption, when you say "line level", is you are talking about RG6 (coax)

Yes, or RG59. RG6 is really for high RF signals, like Satellite or Cable signals, for cameras, you don't need that, and it has a different impedance than cable that is typically for line level (1v peak-peak) signal.

- Can you explain a little bit further with respect to multi-room video; this is an area I haven't really researched too much.

I'm really not much of a multi-room video expert. There are dealers on this forum who would know much more than I do. The gist of it is that you can have your video sources (i.e. Blu-Ray changer, Media Players, Control4 Controllers for on-screen) all located in a central location, and you can either use a traditional AV switch to distribute Component video to each room as they request video, or you can use the new HDMI switches, which typically use multiple pairs of CAT5 to transmit an HDMI signal to all video locations in the home.

- If I choose to utilize an aftermarket remote (say a URC) for the dedicated theater room, rather than Control4, is there still a way to integrate with the Control4 components; that is, bring the interface up on the screen and access the other components of the system? In my current configuration, my relatively old URC RF remote has been rock solid with respect to controlling both components and lighting.

Yes, but it's not necessarily a win-win situation. It's true that you can learn Control4-specific IR codes into a 3rd-party remote, and then use those into an input on the Control4 controller, to control the on-screen, but the Control4 SR-250 remote is (at least for me) a much nicer solution. Trying to get two different automation systems to control a set of gear is always going to be a compromise. The Control4 system works best if it controls *all* the gear, because it maintains state about what input things are on, who is using what equipment, etc.

I wouldn't recommend mixing and matching.

One last thing... CONDUIT is your friend...

Especially for room locations (i.e. possible video locations, etc.), you don't necessarily know what wiring will be used in the future, and I'd recommend running conduit to key locations in the home, where you could use the conduit to either wire directly to those locations, or could wire into a closer closet, from where you could then fish it down walls, etc.

Good luck with your project.

RyanE

[RyanE]

Oh, I forgot to mention *why* you'd want higher-function keypads.

2/3/6-button keypads are great for indicating things (with the LEDs) and firing off macros, or even transport control (play / stop / pause, etc.), but they're not terribly good at selecting media. To select your media, you'd want to use one of the following:

* SR-250 remote using the on-screen display

* SR-250 remote using the OLED display on the remote

* In-wall LCD Keypad

* In-wall Touchscreen

You could certainly outfit each room with an SR-250, but media selection over ZigBee like that is just not as nice as using an ethernet wired device, either the LCD Keypad, or a touchscreen.

RyanE

[RJP]

Thanks again for all the great responses; I definitely have a better idea as to how this works now.

One last question. In using Control4 to run your home theater HW, does it generally interface with the equipment using IR commands. If so, can a majority of that work be done using the client software (once the HC200 has been incorporated into the system) or, for the most part, will it require the Pro software?

Ryan

[RyanE]

Creating and installing drivers is typically done by the dealer, not the end user.

Most equipment is going to already have a driver, whether it's an IR, Serial, or an IP-based driver. If it doesn't have a driver, learning the codes into a driver, creating the connections the driver needs, and adjusting existing drivers ('tuning') is all in the realm of the dealer.

Adding custom programming (when my movie starts playing, dim the lights, or when my hall motion sensor trips, if it's night time, ramp my hall lights (and the kitchen under-counter lights!) up to 8%) are all things you can do in ComposerHE.

RyanE