Network infrastructure, MAC addresses and router interface

[jbs]

There's an exciting subject line, eh? I'll try to make it more interesting.

So each of the ethernet-based devices in a C4 setup has it's own ethernet connection. Where do those connections terminate? Do the devices plug into the same router that the PCs/printers/etc of a home network are on, or should there be 2 distinct network infrastructures in the house, one for normal internet/computer traffic and the other for C4 media and command distribution?

If they are on the same network, do each of the C4 devices have MAC addresses the same way a PC NIC card would? I'm using MAC address flitering (among other things) to secure a wired/wireless network and I'd like to know whether I can continue to do MAC address flitering with a Media Controller and several Ethernet touch pads on the network.

The wireless dimmers and other devices I'm assuming do not connect in any way to the network and instead communicate directly with the Home Theater Controller, right?

Thanks!

--Jason

[RyanE]

Yes, every ethernet C4 device has a MAC address. They are normally printed on the outside of the box, as well as somewhere on the outside of the device itself.

They can either be plugged into the same network, or as some dealers recommend, they can be on their own subnetted section of your network.

You are correct, the ligting controls, although they have a MAC address, since zigbee is an ethernet standard, does not go over the wired or wifi physical interface, so they won't show up on your router at all.

Ryan

[jbs]

Thanks, Ryan.

By subnetted section, it sounds like you mean the same router, and therefore same network infrastructure? The scenario I'm thinking about is if I have a room that will have both a wired speakerpoint and a desktop computer, do I need to run 2 separate cat6 cables to that room, one for each device, or can I run one cable and use a hub in that room to give both devices a wired connection?

--Jason

[Samer Shami]

By subnetted section, it sounds like you mean the same router

Brand name routers (d-link, netgear, linksys) that allow you to segregate traffic per port have been coming onto the market relatively recently. Check if the router supports VLANs. This is the mechanism that you will need to achieve this. One caveat is to check whether the router can act as the DHCP for multiple subnets or VLANs. That particular area is very rare as far as I can tell. I had to resort to building a dedicated PC with multiple NICs and sorting through a great number of software routers to get the final solution (I eventually settled on m0n0wall).

do I need to run 2 separate cat6 cables to that room, one for each device, or can I run one cable and use a hub in that room to give both devices a wired connection?

You don't need two cat6. You can do just fine with cat6 for the PC and cat5 for the C4 equipment. You can just as easily run one cat6 for the room provided you don't copy too much data between computers while you are playing streaming music. This may or may not cause the streaming music to break up. Since cat5 is relatively inexpensive, my recommendation is to run two cables. In the future you can migrate the speakerpoint to the same cable as the PC and use this now spare cable for some other feature - streaming video, IR, relays or sensors.

[danlevine]

RyanE may have been referring to SubNat, essentially plugging a Router into a Router creating 2 networks. The Sub Network which is the second router will contain all of the Control4 equipment. The only thing you must make sure of is the IP Address string must be different on both networks.

We have done this many times and it works perfectly.

Dan

[Sam]

Dan:

How would you go about ensuring the IP address string is differnet on both networks?

Would you have the primary network static and the secondary DHCP?

Jbs:

We have setup a control4 system on a VPN with MAC address filtering and found that the WIFI speaker point has two MAC addresses. One for Ethernet connection and one for WiFi.

[danlevine]

Each router will be performing Nat, Router B is plugged into Router A via one of Router A's Lan ports and Router B's wan port. If the IP Address of Router A is 192.168.1.1 with the string being 192.168.1.x then router b needs to be different. You can change it to 192.168.2.1 with a 192.168.2.x string. Or use a totally different address like 10.0.1.1.

[chambrick]

jbs

If I were you I'd run 2 Cat6 instead of 1 Cat6 and 1 Cat5. The differential cost on one run is going to be approximately $5 or so. Why not go ahead and future proof things while you can.

IMHO

Corbin

[jbs]

I just read back through what I'd posted and I'm not sure if there's something I said that inadvertently indicated I intended to mix Cat5 and Cat6, but yes, the whole house will be Cat6.

The only question is whether everything plugs into the same network or whether I want two distinct networks.

To that end, for the sub-nat ideas, I assume that would mean that I'd want a separate network port in each room for Control4 devices versus other network devices, and at the other end of the cable I'd have the Control4 device plugged into one router and the networking device plugged into the other?

--Jason

[Samer Shami]

To that end, for the sub-nat ideas, I assume that would mean that I'd want a separate network port in each room for Control4 devices versus other network devices, and at the other end of the cable I'd have the Control4 device plugged into one router and the networking device plugged into the other?

That's spot on. To make it work, plug the C4 devices into the router, and then from the WAN port of this router go into your normal network. Make sure the normal network has DHCP, otherwise you will need to specify a static IP for the WAN port. Doing it this way enables C4 to access the Internet, and the typical NAT/firewall on most routers will prevent people on the LAN (which is the WAN side of the router) from accessing devices on the LAN side of the router (where all the C4 equipment is).