Setting up a C4 Network

[AJF]

I'm going with C4 sometime this year but right now I want to set up my home network and would like to do it so that it will work well with the C4 system. Are there any diagrams that I can find on-line that show how it should be set-up?

Right now I just have a Motorola cable modem and a D-Link wireless router. I have my Mac and a PC connected to the router using ethernet and a Mac & PC laptops that I use with WiFi. I have a feeling the D-Link is slowing things down a bit so I'll probably change to an Airport Extreme which I've heard works well with C4. I've also bought a Netgear 24 port switch that the installer recommended: http://www.netgear.com/Products/Switches/SmartSwitches/GS724TP.aspx

I have Cat5 everywhere I'll want an MTS, LCD keypad, HTC etc. so those will all be ethernet. I'm confused as to where the components go in the network. Does the switch get connected to the router along with all of the C4 components? Do I set up my computers on a separate router? Etc...

[henniae]

AJF

There are many ways to design any given network.

Based on your initial description I will assume that you have a home run of Ethernet (i.e. Cat5 of some sort) from each device to a central wire closet. This is a great first design step and will allow the most flexibility as you build your network.

As far as network designs go, I would recommend that you keep all your network devices on the same LAN/VLAN.

In this design you will connect your router to your switch and then connect each network device such as your PC and MAC as well as your MTS, LCD keypad, HTC, etc. to the switch. This design is exactly what the digram on the NetGear website describes.

The advantages of this design are simplicity and a minimal amount of network hardware and network configuration expertise.

The disadvantages of this design is that all he devices are on the same LAN/VLAN and will contend for the available network bandwidth. These disadvantages are minimal because you have selected a switch as your LAN backbone and the switch you selected is business class gear with a high speed backplane. Note the following from the NetGear product description:

"These high performing switches feature a nonblocking wire-speed architecture with a 48 Gbps

or 96 Gbps switching capacity for maximum data throughput."

An analogy would be that of the interstate highway system (i.e. large multi-lane roads) with smaller onramps feeding into the large roads.. The onramps are your PC, MAC, MTS, LCD keypads, HT, etc. attached to each port of the switch and the big multi -ane high capacity (48 Gbps or 96 Gbps switching capacity) is the backplane for all this traffic.

Also remember that most of the C4 devices use the Ethernet connection for management and control of the C4 hardware. The only real network intensive load for C4 is from streaming music.

Hope this helps

Alan

[AJF]

Thanks Alan, that was a big help. I've been reading up on networking (Tom's Networking mostly) and it was making my head spin !

[str1der]

The only other con to this setup is the fact that C4 only supports WEP. I'm not sure why they haven't upgraded yet. This means that all of your normal network devices, PCs, will have to run WEP instead of WPA or even better WPA2.

[R_Willis]

The only other con to this setup is the fact that C4 only supports WEP. I'm not sure why they haven't upgraded yet. This means that all of your normal network devices, PCs, will have to run WEP instead of WPA or even better WPA2.

Unless your not using anything wireless.

[AJF]

The only things that will be wireless are 2 PC laptops (1 of which will be dedicated to C4) and 1 Mac laptop. So can I use WPA on just those computers because none of the C4 equipment will be wireless?

[RyanE]

AJF:

Correct.

If you are not using any Control4 wireless gear (Wi-Fi Mini-Touch / SpeakerPoint / 10.5" touchpanel), you can use WPA on your laptop, etc.

RyanE

[AJF]

Thanks guys!

Another question: so if the C4 hardware is all connected to the switch which is connected to the internet through the router, what do you use to protect everything on the network?

[R_Willis]

Thanks guys!

Another question: so if the C4 hardware is all connected to the switch which is connected to the internet through the router, what do you use to protect everything on the network?

Most routers currently sold have protection built in. Your switch is downstream of the protection.

Cable ---> Cable Modem --> Router --> Switch --> Gear (computers, C4 stuff)

[henniae]

Thanks guys!

Another question: so if the C4 hardware is all connected to the switch which is connected to the internet through the router' date=' what do you use to protect everything on the network?[/quote']

Most routers currently sold have protection built in. Your switch is downstream of the protection.

Cable ---> Cable Modem --> Router --> Switch --> Gear (computers, C4 stuff)

Perhaps you are protected from intrusion from the Internet by the router.

Let's add an access point that is only configured with WEP (because C4only supports WEP)

Cable ---> Cable Modem --> Router --> Switch --> Gear (computers, C4 stuff)

|

+---------> Access Point

A hacker can crack WEP very quickly! There are many sites and tools available on the Internet to crack WEP.

Here is a link to an an article about cracking WEP and ways to better secure your network

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/content/view/24244/98/

C4, please get your act together and build better security into your products!!! Ease of usability is no excuse, look what ease of usability has done for Microsoft!!!

Alan

[AJF]

I live in a fairly rural area, and my house is set way back from the road, so I'm not as worried about wireless security as someone that lives in a city. I'm more worried about someone hacking in from the internet, especially if the C4 system needs access to the web for software updates, cover art, and especially 4Sight.

[str1der]

AJF:

Correct.

If you are not using any Control4 wireless gear (Wi-Fi Mini-Touch / SpeakerPoint / 10.5" touchpanel), you can use WPA on your laptop, etc.

RyanE

True but basically Control4 is saying if you want secure wireless then you can't use our wireless gear. Not a good option.

[henniae]

AJF:

Correct.

If you are not using any Control4 wireless gear (Wi-Fi Mini-Touch / SpeakerPoint / 10.5" touchpanel)' date=' you can use WPA on your laptop, etc.

RyanE[/quote']

True but basically Control4 is saying if you want secure wireless then you can't use our wireless gear. Not a good option.

And WEP was cracked when???? About 2003/2004 time frame, about 3 or 4 years ago!!! How long has C4 been in business?

Alan

[RyanE]

We suggest that until we get an updated kernel in those devices to be able to do WPA, that you have a separate wireless network that can't access your PC's, etc.

You can open up connections to director through the wireless network from the Control4 wireless devices to your controller.

This issue will be resolved (I believe) in the next major upgrade, although it's not my task, so I don't have details.

RyanE

[str1der]

AJF:

Correct.

If you are not using any Control4 wireless gear (Wi-Fi Mini-Touch / SpeakerPoint / 10.5" touchpanel)' date=' you can use WPA on your laptop, etc.

RyanE[/quote']

True but basically Control4 is saying if you want secure wireless then you can't use our wireless gear. Not a good option.

And WEP was cracked when???? About 2003/2004 time frame, about 3 or 4 years ago!!! How long has C4 been in business?

Alan

Not sure what you're trying to say?

[henniae]

Not sure what you're trying to say?

I was pointing out that WEP has been known to be very insecure for 3 to 4 years and that C4 has likewise been producing hardware for several years and thus has been sitting on this known issue for some time. Don't get me wrong, C4 has some very nice products, but in my humble opinion they are a bit slow in developing and releasing enhancements and updates.

Alan

[str1der]

Not sure what you're trying to say?

I was pointing out that WEP has been known to be very insecure for 3 to 4 years and that C4 has likewise been producing hardware for several years and thus has been sitting on this known issue for some time. Don't get me wrong' date=' C4 has some very nice products, but in my humble opinion they are a bit slow in developing and releasing enhancements and updates.

Alan[/quote']

Ok agreed. It's just the way you qouted me and responded it sounded like you thought I was being to hard on C4 because of this.

[AJF]

Okay the Netgear switch just arrived and the installation guide says:

"These instructions assume you are using DHCP in your network. If you are using static IP addressing in your network, configure the switch IP address before connecting it to your network."

Now what?

[henniae]

Okay the Netgear switch just arrived and the installation guide says:

"These instructions assume you are using DHCP in your network. If you are using static IP addressing in your network, configure the switch IP address before connecting it to your network."

Now what?

Are you using DHCP or static IP addresses? What model of Netgear switch?

Alan

[AJF]

I posted a link to the switch in my first post. I guess the question is, which should I use DHCP or static IP? Does that refer to whether my ISP uses Dynamic or Static? Or does it refer to my home network (LAN) and the devices on it?

[AJF]

Again I'm still learning about networking (and finding it fairly confusing) but the way I understand it is that because my ISP is Dynamic, I have to use DHCP on my computers to access the internet. But all the C4 stuff hooked up to the switch, are given static IP addresses because it's more reliable if each piece of equipment always has the same IP address.

[henniae]

AJF

You can use a mixture of DHCP and static addresses in your network. It really does not matter if your ISP does use static or dynamic (i.e. DHCP). The ISP will use DHCP to assign an IP address to your DLink router on the router's outside interface. The outside interface, sometimes called the WAN interface but it can be labeled as something else, is that interface that connects to the Internet.

The DLink router will also have one or more LAN ports on the inside of your network. These LAN ports are where you connect your internal devices which are also called hosts in TCP/IP parlance.

Now that we have covered the basics of how things are hooked up let's delve into how addresses are assigned.

As you know you can use DHCP or static assigned addresses or a mixture of both. Usually you use static IP addresses on devices that you will regularly try to connect to. Devices like your MTS, LCD keypad, HTC and your new switch.

For devices like PCs you can use DHCP assigned addresses, but if you wanted to you could use static addresses for your PCs.

One more thing that you should do is to determine what range of IP addresses your router will use for the DHCP pool of addresses it will divvy out. The reason this is important is that if you assign a static address from the pool of DHCP addresses the router may assign an address that is used by another device. This will cause problems.

Let's look at a sample network address assignment that you could use.

Address block used on you LAN with the subnet mask

192.168.10.0 255.255.255.0

Default gateway on your DLink router

192.168.10.1

DHCP pool

192.168.10.50 thru 192.168.10.100

Static addresses

Switch 192.168.10.200

MTS 192.168.10.201

LCD 192.168.10.202

HTC 192.168.10.203

Hope this has been helpful.

Alan

[AJF]

I think I'm starting to get it now Alan, thanks. I should have some time next week to install the switch; I'm sure I'll have more questions when I actually start working on it :-)

[AJF]

Okay it's been 3 months but who's counting.

I got rid of the Netgear switch because of the problems that Dan has had with them and bought a Dell 3424P(BTW, it's just as loud as the Netgear!). I initialized it using Hyperterminal. I have an Airport Extreme hooked up to it.

What do you use to manage the switch?

[AJF]

Bump. Is there a special program you use to set the IP addresses of the components you hook up to the switch?