Best way to divide a project among devices

[jbs]

The gentleman who programmed our C4 system (and who was truly a genius with the stuff) has unfortunately retired (back to law school). The dealer has other integrators coming up to speed, but in the mean time I was hoping to get some outside opinions on the best way to load balance a project.

I have a Media Controller and an HC300, as well as 7 MTS, couple of amps, matrix switch and about 70 dimmers. The Zigbee performance has always been a bit on the sluggish side, I'm assuming b/c of the size of the project and the fact that the controllers are all in a basement closet. I need all the IR hookups so I don't have the option of just moving one or the other to another network jack more centrally located in the house.

I had him screenshot the current configuration, which currently looks like this:

Is this the "right" way to split things out? I'm not sure if it's indicated in the graphics above, but zserver shows as enabled on the HC300 and disabled on the media controller. If there's something else that would be more useful to screenshot, please let me know (he logs in remotely so it's no big deal to get another).

Is the project "running" on whichever machine has director enabled on it? Is that what we mean by "running the project"? Sorry for my high levels of ignorance here, but this is a facet of C4 that I've not learned much about so far . . .

Thanks for any advice!

--Jason

[michelo76]

Jbs, Why not have the HC-300 run Director? it is a faster processor than the Media controller. Have the media controller act as a zigbee server. I would in fact disable navigator on the HC-300 if running director, but I assume you need the HD GUI.....

Michelo

[jbs]

You've hit on one issue that I do recall from when I was initially discussing this with my dealer. I waited for the HC300 in order to have the high-def GUI, and I do really like it :-) I am using a video matrix to share that GUI across all our TVs so I'm likely to keep navigator there and I don't need a second navigator. Beyond that, as far as what runs where, I'm not sure what's behind it. One reason I wanted to ask (aside from the fact that the Zigbee often feels sluggish) is that I recall one evening when the dealer was out trying to resolve some issues, and I think some of the functions got moved back and forth while he was trying to diagnose the issue. This was the newer guy, not the C4guru, and I'm not positive that everything ended up back where the first fellow would have wanted it.

If there's a more logical or efficient approach to splitting them out, I'm sure he'd be open to moving them around, but I wanted to find out what that was first, rather than just asking him to tinker with it

So to get very basic about it . . . am I correct in thinking that most of the "processes" listed have to run on both boxes, but that the following only have to run on one:

zigbee server

navigator

director

openvpn

So right now I'm running zigbee server and navigator on the HC300 and Director and openvpn on the MC. Given the constraint that I want the HD Navigator, is that how others would break out the processes? Are there other things that can also move around, or is the list above the full list?

Thanks!

--Jason

[RyanE]

Zigbee server should only run on a single box, unless you have multiple sets of zigbee devices on different channels, but you'd need a pretty extensive set of Zigbee nodes to require that (I have 60+ Zigbee nodes, one zserver running). Also, this is pretty difficult to setup, and not recommended unless you have over 100 zigbee nodes spread out throughout a large area.

Navigator could run on as many devices as you want on-screens available independently. As you have the HC-300 HD output, you don't need the one on the MC, and turning it off frees up memory and CPU resources for Director to run.

Director should only run the master controller. Leaving your MC as the master likely makes sense, because first of all, it's not running Navigator, so it should have headroom to run the project. Second of all, the MC has a hard drive, so the MC can manage more media than the HC-300, which, although it has a faster processor, doesn't have a hard drive.

Openvpn should run where Director runs.

Looks like it's divided up fairly well to me.

RyanE

[slemay]

I agree with Ryan... I don't think you'll see a big speed improvement switching Director over to the HC-300 since you've already got NAVIGATOR turned off on that box.

If Zigbee is sluggish - it's possible you're on the outer-range of the device. You may want to try and add in a Card Access contact sensor w/external antenna and power supply. It's a $140 device (plus $20 I think for the power supply) - and you really won't use it for the contact sensor part - but it GREATLY increases the range of all Zigbee devices and if that is your problem will speed that up.

To test that out a little better before spending the money - bring the remote closer to the MC and see if the "sluggishness" wears off... also - see if the sluggishness is related to one device or another (ie: satellites always seem sluggish or the on screen navigator). It could also be "sluggish" because there are too many repeats in the driver or even "unclean" code in the driver (meaning a lot of extra fluff).

There is usually a 250ms (I'm guessing on that) delay when I hit someone on a remote and it responds - but it's really not that bad / noticeable. Sure if I have the devices remote and the C4 remote side by side - the device always wins... but again - we're talking 1/4 to a 1/2 of a second delay...

Hope this helps.

[jbs]

Thanks, Shawn. I'd been thinking about picking up one of those Card Access devices. Would you position that device near the HC300 (in the basement equipment closet) or further out toward the periphery of the system? Or would you put it somewhere in between, more like where I would have ideally placed the HC300 itself. Conceptually, is this device just taking whatever signals it sees and boosting them?

The sluggishness we experience is typically on the order of pressing a 6-button key that is programmed to turn on 5 lights and having a 1- or 2-second delay before they all come on. This is the exception, of course. They're normally quite responsive, but sometimes less so. Also, our most distant remote control is in our master shower (yes, sealed in plastic ). This is the furthest point in the house from the equipment closet, and it's inside tile and duroc, with two floors and a lot of walls in between. Trying to review the album list on this remote is generally very slow (like 10 or 15 seconds to pull up the first screen.

I don't think my dealer has used the Card Access devices before, so would love any advice on whether placing it upstairs to boost the remote, or placing it downstairs to boost the controller would be better.

If you want to use it as a thermometer as well, does it get hard-wired to the thermistor that CardAccess sells? Or is there also a wireless thermometer sensor that it can link up to? Cause that would actually be a cool additional benefit to one of these if it could bring the outdoor temperature to my MTS's.

Thanks for all the help, guys!

[jbs]

Just visited the Card-access site to learn more . . .

Looks like either the Contact Switch or Contact Relay will both perform the desired Zigbee repeater function, and the main difference is that the contact relay will allow me to trigger as well, correct?

for the incremental $20, are there things you all have used the wireless Relay for that should make me get that one? My main interest of course is the Zigbee repeating . . .

[RyanE]

Keep in mind that the Contact version of the device will only repeat Zigbee signals when hardwired to power. If it's running off of batteries, it doesn't turn on it's Zigbee radio until a contact state or temperature change causes it to need to broadcast the info on the Zigbee network.

RyanE

[jbs]

Yup, I put the AC/DC adapter in my shopping cart as well. Now I just have to decide whether to go with the contact or the relay. Thing is, I don't have a pressing need for either capability, I'm just trying to decide which one I'm most likely to want someday . . .

[neil12011]

Thomas Leish has a good review of all the card access goodies...it's on his blogtiesh.whatever site, I can't remember the address but it's on the lower half of the forum posts...good stuff

[michelo76]

Thomas Leish has a good review of all the card access goodies...it's on his blogtiesh.whatever site, I can't remember the address but it's on the lower half of the forum posts...good stuff

Neil,

The blog has moved to a new home. now it is blogs.control4.com

[slemay]

JBS - I usually put the repeater in the middle somewhere... as the external antenna on it will grab distant signals and boost them. They claim up to 350ft... but I can say for sure we've seen HUGE improvements using these buggers - but we do put them in the middle - about 1/2 between the Zigbee server and the distant room we're trying to reach.

As for lighting being delayed - that could be a number of things... I'd guess when the new Zigbee Pro 1.1 comes out from Control4, you'll see improvements there as well - but that's not coming out until after 1.6 - so at least 6 months or more would be my guess.

[jbs]

The more common delay for us would definitely be the remotes. From many places in the house the lag time for getting media data to the remotes can be frustratingly long, so if I'm able to boost that it will absolutely be worth it.

Last night I ordered the switch. I couldn't think of anything I really need a relay or a switch for right now, but I'm placing the device in a bookshelf and I figured I could always rig up a magnet to a book in front of the device and make myself one of those haunted house rugs. If I pull the right book forward, the lights dim and some spooky music comes on the speakers . . . :D

[slemay]

"Media Data to the remote" --> that could be a big issue... Zigbee is a very SLOW protocol... so no matter what you do - there will ALWAYS be a delay when trying to get media data streamed back to the remote. Like trying to provide water for NYC by using a garden hose.