HTC-B Upgrade to Composer 1.7.1

[Archivist]

Help Please:

Hello, I have 2 HTC-B's (1 slave) running 1.3.2 and attempted to update my master one to Version 1.7.1 so I could take advantage of the Apple I-Touch as another "touch screen remote control". The process initiated well, then the unit reset & Composer lost connection. Now the HTC-B will not power on or show any lights (other than internal led's through case) and I cannot connect in any manner. I still have the "slave" unit which I can talk with, but am now very "gun shy" about attempting to upgrade my system.

Does anyone know how to reactivate my HTC? I've tried everything, but it does not seem to cycle the power light even though plugged in. I've also found a copy of 1.7.0 and created a USB Recovery stick, but again without being able to get the unit to indicate a Power light (cycle) it will not read the Flash drive. I've even tried to Telnet to the unit but to no avail and my Router is not seeing the unit at this point (again a power cycle issue).

I'm a bit desperate at this time, so any suggestions would be most welcomed, my local dealer has "Bagged it" so I have no one that can assist in the area.

Dave

[ILoveC4]

Your dealer "bagged it"? What does that mean?

If you're dealer started an activation and screwed it up, he needs to fix it.

How are you accessing recovery sticks and the update manager?

[RyanE]

*This* is why *dealers* should update systems.

First of all, your dealer should be updating you to the *latest* version, not 1.7.1. Your dealer should've informed you that although 1.7.x will load on an HTC and should work OK for smaller projects, that's it's really recommended to run an HC-class controller (HC300, HC500, HC1000) as your master with versions later than 1.3.2.

If you were not patient enough, you could've easily bricked your HTC. It's *normal* for controllers to stop communicating with Composer during the update process. This does not mean the update is finished. If you unplugged while the bootloader was being installed, the controller won't get far enough along in the boot process to recognize USB sticks, so no recovery without your dealer sending it to Control4.

If you reset your controller at the wrong time, I'm sorry to tell you, but congratulations, you're likely now the owner of a Control4 HTC-shaped doorstop.

Sorry for the situation you find yourself in, but regardless of whether your dealer 'bagged it' or not, if you're not a dealer, you shouldn't be updating this system.

RyanE

[K&J]

*This* is why *dealers* should update systems.

First of all, your dealer should be updating you to the *latest* version, not 1.7.1. Your dealer should've informed you that although 1.7.x will load on an HTC and should work OK for smaller projects, that's it's really recommended to run an HC-class controller (HC300, HC500, HC1000) as your master with versions later than 1.3.2.

If you were not patient enough, you could've easily bricked your HTC. It's *normal* for controllers to stop communicating with Composer during the update process. This does not mean the update is finished. If you unplugged while the bootloader was being installed, the controller won't get far enough along in the boot process to recognize USB sticks, so no recovery without your dealer sending it to Control4.

If you reset your controller at the wrong time, I'm sorry to tell you, but congratulations, you're likely now the owner of a Control4 HTC-shaped doorstop.

Sorry for the situation you find yourself in, but regardless of whether your dealer 'bagged it' or not, if you're not a dealer, you shouldn't be updating this system.

RyanE

Thanks Ryan.. Good Job..

Archivist,

Good Luck

[Archivist]

Thank you all for your responses and perhaps clarification even if its not pleasant!

Couple of responses: "Bagged it" means "Out of Business". Dealer sent me a file to update my "system" and then closed shop. Over the past 3 months I've tried to find some of his old staff that was involved w/C4 but to no avail and even though there may be a Crestron Dealer nearby, he doesn't deal with C4 so I'm stuck.

Regarding updating an HTC, I would probably agree that its not optimum would love to have a HC300/500/1000 but out of my price range, I have already invested $2-3K in a "System" that doesn't work and find the responses to be a bit "caustic". Having read a number of the threads it is obvious that some "Dealers" are better than others, but to unload on an End User for having a poor/non-existant/closed dealer does not engender product loyalty. I am not a dealer, though at one time expressed some desire to become one, but the process, requirements and our staffing mitigated against such action. I do have significant computer/ networking/AV experience though not C4 certified. The "bagged" dealer provided me with Composer in several versions so that I might create a System to my liking and then he "tweaked" the initial setups including linking various products to the HTC (Director).

My HTC "system" is quite small at this point and most recently was being focused on only my Home Theater so perhaps it would work on 1.7.x (whichever version). My intent was to utilize as noted the I-Touch/I-Phone App as a remote controller (I have a 10" touch pad, that has never worked properly), hence the suggestion now regretted to update the HTC.

Ryan, perhaps I do have a "HTC brick", but I should think that C4 would offer those of us "buying" your product whether it be from Dealers/OnLine/Big Box (ie Ultimate Electronics, ABT) or ??? some recourse. It is obvious that not everyone has had great service; where does the company stand? Do you only want me to find some other dealer in another town to resolve a problem not of his/her making? How is that fair? I'm not far from SLC in distance, but it certainly appears so with regard to support at this point.

I have been really impressed with what C4 can do and especially the "sales pitches" presented at CEDIA/CES over the years, but from a personal exposure, getting it to perform has not been much fun. Again the blame may lie w/me and/or the dealer (nameless) who's response has been to add more equipment and complexity to my system. That really doesn't help and while I've been perhaps overly patient (2+ years) his demise has left me with a hole in my wallet and a mess on my hands. I suppose the next ? is what options do I have?

Archivist

[dogdvr]

Archivist,

You can get your HTC worked on but without sounding "Caustic", you will have to find another dealer who will first inspect it and then send it into C4 for repairs. I am sure this will not be covered under warranty, but they will attempt a repair. I am sorry you are not happy with your past dealer, but C4 has, since day one, been sold and serviced through a dealer channel. You might not like their stance but they have been pretty consistent with their position.

Your past dealer did not work out for you but that does not mean you can't find a dealer that you will love. There are dealers on this board that will connect remotely and help you with programming. There are also dealers on this board that can take a customers system that has not been preforming to their expectations and make the system work "like advertised".

Control4 will do their best to support you but the support you are asking for will need to go through their dealer network.

[SteinyD]

Yea, great job RyanE and K&J. That's the way to stick up for the dealer network without first understanding the customer's situation. Sorry to pick this place to stick my two cents in again, but I still haven't invested because I still don't see a consistency in how the dealers are trained, qualified and recertified. It would appear that enough rogue dealers can cause more harm to reputation than a few consumers that are intelligent enough to service themselves but shoot themselves in the foot once inawhile. I think C4 needs to look more closely at their dealer network.

I also think an apology is owed Archivist. There is nothing worse than having a system that is controlling some part of your household, have the dealer bail on you and then have an environment you cannot use. Regardless as to how he got to where he is, benefit of the doubt and more questions should ahve been asked first. Then again, that's my opinion. I'm sure he is aggravated enough before he came here looking for some help. Instead, you poured salt on his wound! The response and support from a fellow dealer didn't do the C4 dealer network any good in my eyes.

[c4user]

Yea, great job RyanE and K&J. That's the way to stick up for the dealer network without first understanding the customer's situation. Sorry to pick this place to stick my two cents in again, but I still haven't invested because I still don't see a consistency in how the dealers are trained, qualified and recertified. It would appear that enough rogue dealers can cause more harm to reputation than a few consumers that are intelligent enough to service themselves but shoot themselves in the foot once inawhile. I think C4 needs to look more closely at their dealer network.

I also think an apology is owed Archivist. There is nothing worse than having a system that is controlling some part of your household, have the dealer bail on you and then have an environment you cannot use. Regardless as to how he got to where he is, benefit of the doubt and more questions should ahve been asked first. Then again, that's my opinion. I'm sure he is aggravated enough before he came here looking for some help. Instead, you poured salt on his wound! The response and support from a fellow dealer didn't do the C4 dealer network any good in my eyes.

I AGREE ! WHY ARE YOU GUYS SHUNNING THIS GUY. HOW ABOUT SOME REAL HELP ! ???????

[RyanE]

Why did I post what I posted? Well, because when you've got an obvious example of why end users should not screw around with ComposerPro unless Control4 actually certified end users, you use it as an example.

I'm sorry Archivist is in the situation he's in, but he needs a dealer who can, if necessary, call into Control4 tech support, has the ability to RMA equipment where necessary, and who isn't going to make the mistakes that were made in this case. Until Control4 decides to have a 'Pro End User' training and certification, and offers some form of ComposerPro to end users, end users should not be updating their systems.

RyanE

[SteinyD]

Ryan -

I'm done having that debate. I think that's been beaten to a pulp in these forums. Basically, the industry is as it is. Like it or not. I don't but I've made my feelings known. In the case of this guy, you read in the riot act and had no clue of his situation and then only had another dealer applaud you for laying the guy out. He was left in the dust by his dealer, still has a home to operate and did what he felt he could to keep his home operating. For heavens sake, this stuff becomes more than a nice to have when it is making the necessities of a home operate! So making him aware of what he might have done different is fine. That wasn't the approach of yourself or your industry colleague that applauded you. You didn't do the industry any favors. No wonder this stuff is priced as it is and hard to get to the masses. You guys think you are above the rest. Settle down. Think of it from a consumer perspective, treat people as they are your life blood and they'll come running back. Too many dealers treat their clients as if the dealer is a dear as the blood that runs through our veins. In this industry that is unfortunately true. Just don't make it so damn obvious!

Why did I post what I posted? Well, because when you've got an obvious example of why end users should not screw around with ComposerPro unless Control4 actually certified end users, you use it as an example.

I'm sorry Archivist is in the situation he's in, but he needs a dealer who can, if necessary, call into Control4 tech support, has the ability to RMA equipment where necessary, and who isn't going to make the mistakes that were made in this case. Until Control4 decides to have a 'Pro End User' training and certification, and offers some form of ComposerPro to end users, end users should not be updating their systems.

RyanE

[K&J]

This Gentleman obviously has Pro and as Ryan Stated, Pro is Not meant for "End Users". There are Technical difficulties in updating systems and there are even "Dealers" that are Not paying attention to this.

Just the other day I picked up a Customer that a Dealer had updated a system that was Not intended to be updated without a proper controller. System was not working properly due to this Dealer Not Paying Attention to the update notes.

When an "End User" decides to try and use Pro by Whatever Means they receive it, it is Wrong..

If someone receives a copy of Windows or Office from a friend or other means and has trouble with it, is Microsoft responsible?

In any case this discussion will soon be put to rest with a future update and I quite frankly cannot wait..

Just because you purchase the equipment "Does Not" give you the Rights to the programming software. This is Proprietary Property..

Control 4 has made this Abundantly Clear.. Yet there is Always going to be someone to try and Hack or receive a Rouge Copy.. It's inevitable.. Using this point, the individuals Should Not expect assistance when using the Rouge copy of the software. When there is an issue with the equipment the End User Must go through a Certified Dealer in order to have that equipment repaired or replaced.

I challenge those that are under the impression that They can do this in a better manner to Develope their own Software and Equipment, spend the $$ to market, R&D, manufacture the equipment and put it out to the public..

Would you want your hard work being Pirated? More than likely not. If you do, Please do so and if Your equipment does equal or better than what is already out there, I will be one of your customers..

[SteinyD]

Read my comments again. I wasn't defending his actions. I had a problem with how you and Ryan approached him. The point was that his dealer left him, sent him the software and lets assume for the moment that he unknowingly accepted something he shouldn't have (point 1). Let's further assume he needed to operate his home and while he couldn't find a local dealer attempted to resolve his issue since he had the tools to do so (point 2).

As I stated above, I wasn't arguing right or wrong. I was arguing your approach, the reflection on your industry and the almighty appearence that your industry portrays. Go read the thread that just lasted the better part of two weeks on CE Pro re: 'who owns the code'. The comments from dealers of systems such as Crestron, who leave nothing with the client and in case of a dealer going out of business find themselves having to start all over. We know C4 doesn't leave their clients in that predicament. However, the way dealers handle themselves leaves much to be desired. I think the two of you could have taken a different stance while figuring out what this guy's situation was and what he meant by his indicating that the dealer was out of business.

Again, the matter of the Pro software from C4 being dealer only product is understood. I don't agree that it isn't sold / legally provided to the consumer of their product but that is what it is.

This Gentleman obviously has Pro and as Ryan Stated, Pro is Not meant for "End Users". There are Technical difficulties in updating systems and there are even "Dealers" that are Not paying attention to this.

Just the other day I picked up a Customer that a Dealer had updated a system that was Not intended to be updated without a proper controller. System was not working properly due to this Dealer Not Paying Attention to the update notes.

When an "End User" decides to try and use Pro by Whatever Means they receive it, it is Wrong..

If someone receives a copy of Windows or Office from a friend or other means and has trouble with it, is Microsoft responsible?

In any case this discussion will soon be put to rest with a future update and I quite frankly cannot wait..

Just because you purchase the equipment "Does Not" give you the Rights to the programming software. This is Proprietary Property..

Control 4 has made this Abundantly Clear.. Yet there is Always going to be someone to try and Hack or receive a Rouge Copy.. It's inevitable.. Using this point, the individuals Should Not expect assistance when using the Rouge copy of the software. When there is an issue with the equipment the End User Must go through a Certified Dealer in order to have that equipment repaired or replaced.

I challenge those that are under the impression that They can do this in a better manner to Develope their own Software and Equipment, spend the $$ to market, R&D, manufacture the equipment and put it out to the public..

Would you want your hard work being Pirated? More than likely not. If you do, Please do so and if Your equipment does equal or better than what is already out there, I will be one of your customers..

[wingzz]

This Gentleman obviously has Pro and as Ryan Stated, Pro is Not meant for "End Users". There are Technical difficulties in updating systems and there are even "Dealers" that are Not paying attention to this.

Just the other day I picked up a Customer that a Dealer had updated a system that was Not intended to be updated without a proper controller. System was not working properly due to this Dealer Not Paying Attention to the update notes.

When an "End User" decides to try and use Pro by Whatever Means they receive it, it is Wrong..

If someone receives a copy of Windows or Office from a friend or other means and has trouble with it, is Microsoft responsible?

In any case this discussion will soon be put to rest with a future update and I quite frankly cannot wait..

Just because you purchase the equipment "Does Not" give you the Rights to the programming software. This is Proprietary Property..

Control 4 has made this Abundantly Clear.. Yet there is Always going to be someone to try and Hack or receive a Rouge Copy.. It's inevitable.. Using this point, the individuals Should Not expect assistance when using the Rouge copy of the software. When there is an issue with the equipment the End User Must go through a Certified Dealer in order to have that equipment repaired or replaced.

I challenge those that are under the impression that They can do this in a better manner to Develope their own Software and Equipment, spend the $$ to market, R&D, manufacture the equipment and put it out to the public..

Would you want your hard work being Pirated? More than likely not. If you do, Please do so and if Your equipment does equal or better than what is already out there, I will be one of your customers..

Hey if your not helping stop spouting your C4 company line, you are one of the worst dealers here as far as giving anyone help, it seems that all you do is to repeat the same thing over and over

STFU and help some people here as that is what this forum is for, if you arent willing to help go lurk in the dealer only forum where you can play with what ever you want

[ILoveC4]

This Gentleman obviously has Pro and as Ryan Stated' date=' Pro is Not meant for "End Users". There are Technical difficulties in updating systems and there are even "Dealers" that are Not paying attention to this.

Just the other day I picked up a Customer that a Dealer had updated a system that was Not intended to be updated without a proper controller. System was not working properly due to this Dealer Not Paying Attention to the update notes.

When an "End User" decides to try and use Pro by Whatever Means they receive it, it is Wrong..

If someone receives a copy of Windows or Office from a friend or other means and has trouble with it, is Microsoft responsible?

In any case this discussion will soon be put to rest with a future update and I quite frankly cannot wait..

Just because you purchase the equipment "Does Not" give you the Rights to the programming software. This is Proprietary Property..

Control 4 has made this Abundantly Clear.. Yet there is Always going to be someone to try and Hack or receive a Rouge Copy.. It's inevitable.. Using this point, the individuals Should Not expect assistance when using the Rouge copy of the software. When there is an issue with the equipment the End User Must go through a Certified Dealer in order to have that equipment repaired or replaced.

I challenge those that are under the impression that They can do this in a better manner to Develope their own Software and Equipment, spend the $$ to market, R&D, manufacture the equipment and put it out to the public..

Would you want your hard work being Pirated? More than likely not. If you do, Please do so and if Your equipment does equal or better than what is already out there, I will be one of your customers..[/quote']

Hey if your not helping stop spouting your C4 company line, you are one of the worst dealers here as far as giving anyone help, it seems that all you do is to repeat the same thing over and over

STFU and help some people here as that is what this forum is for, if you arent willing to help go lurk in the dealer only forum where you can play with what ever you want

Thanks wingzz...someone needed to say that.

On that note....CALL YOUR DEALER!

[SteinyD]

Poor guy needs to find a dealer!!

This Gentleman obviously has Pro and as Ryan Stated' date=' Pro is Not meant for "End Users". There are Technical difficulties in updating systems and there are even "Dealers" that are Not paying attention to this.

Just the other day I picked up a Customer that a Dealer had updated a system that was Not intended to be updated without a proper controller. System was not working properly due to this Dealer Not Paying Attention to the update notes.

When an "End User" decides to try and use Pro by Whatever Means they receive it, it is Wrong..

If someone receives a copy of Windows or Office from a friend or other means and has trouble with it, is Microsoft responsible?

In any case this discussion will soon be put to rest with a future update and I quite frankly cannot wait..

Just because you purchase the equipment "Does Not" give you the Rights to the programming software. This is Proprietary Property..

Control 4 has made this Abundantly Clear.. Yet there is Always going to be someone to try and Hack or receive a Rouge Copy.. It's inevitable.. Using this point, the individuals Should Not expect assistance when using the Rouge copy of the software. When there is an issue with the equipment the End User Must go through a Certified Dealer in order to have that equipment repaired or replaced.

I challenge those that are under the impression that They can do this in a better manner to Develope their own Software and Equipment, spend the $$ to market, R&D, manufacture the equipment and put it out to the public..

Would you want your hard work being Pirated? More than likely not. If you do, Please do so and if Your equipment does equal or better than what is already out there, I will be one of your customers..[/quote']

Hey if your not helping stop spouting your C4 company line, you are one of the worst dealers here as far as giving anyone help, it seems that all you do is to repeat the same thing over and over

STFU and help some people here as that is what this forum is for, if you arent willing to help go lurk in the dealer only forum where you can play with what ever you want

Thanks wingzz...someone needed to say that.

On that note....CALL YOUR DEALER!

[ILoveC4]

Hopefully you realize I was kidding.

Poor guy needs to find a dealer!!

Hey if your not helping stop spouting your C4 company line' date=' you are one of the worst dealers here as far as giving anyone help, it seems that all you do is to repeat the same thing over and over

STFU and help some people here as that is what this forum is for, if you arent willing to help go lurk in the dealer only forum where you can play with what ever you want[/quote']

Thanks wingzz...someone needed to say that.

On that note....CALL YOUR DEALER!

[RyanE]

You all certainly have a point, I probably could've (and should've) handled it in a much more tactful way.

The original poster was likely more a victim in his situation rather than someone doing it out of malice.

I apologize for that.

RyanE

[ILoveC4]

You all certainly have a point, I probably could've (and should've) handled it in a much more tactful way.

The original poster was likely more a victim in his situation rather than someone doing it out of malice.

I apologize for that.

RyanE

Wow RyanE, I have always had respect for you but that apology goes a long way in my book.

You are a good man. I appreciate all the help you provide on this forum.

[Kimi]

I'm just a business guy, not a techie, and it would seem that the dealer responses so far are missing the point.

Yes he did something wrong, but he is now stuck and needs help. That would appear to be an opportunity for the dealers to simply say "call me and I'll try to help, for a fee of course". Isn't that what the dealers are in business to do anyway?

[dogdvr]

Kimi,

Did you read all the posts?

I told him how to find help and get his problem solved.

[SteinyD]

Ryan -

I appreciate you coming around and seeing it from a different perspective eventually. But I'm not sure it is with 100% customer service point of view.

I've said it before in many places - not just here at c4forums. This industry and its dealers are not doing itself any favors whatsoever. I still stand on the sidelines as everytime I think I've chosen the platform, a dealer or have become comfortable (resistently accepting) knowing that I cannot plug n play on my own choosing, discussions such as these crop up .. or the well published article of a dealer going out of business and having all of their Crestron customers get hosed for future repair / enhancement of their systems (they now need to spend significant $$ to have another dealer pick it up and re-write).

I don't feel that a vast majority of dealers in this industry get it. I think they are all too hell bent on protecting their livelihoods at any cost, with no consideration for the consumer. If they spent more time building customer relationships and customer loyalty - and demonstrate trust - they wouldn't have to work so hard at protecting their livelihoods. We are at a different time in history. Technology isn't this mysterious 'science' it once was. It is hardware, software and a bit of programming. Consumers want automation. They want home controls. They want to save money on energy. They want it to work. They want it to work 24x7 without having to wonder if it will work tomorrow. They want it to behave as the light switch in the kitchen of non-automated home or the POTS copper phone line that has always worked whether or not the electricity is on or off. But they can't. They can't because the manufacturers of this industry and its dealers hold the keys to the home owner's kingdoms. Its not right.

I've said enough.

You all certainly have a point, I probably could've (and should've) handled it in a much more tactful way.

The original poster was likely more a victim in his situation rather than someone doing it out of malice.

I apologize for that.

RyanE

[RyanE]

I agree. Great dealers create relationships of trust with their potential and current customers, and great dealers get most if not all of their work via word-of-mouth from customers who are extremely satisfied with their work.

It's a partnership to get an automation system installed, regardless of the ultimate level of control that the homeowner has at the end of the day.

I think that unfortunately, many of the people posting on this forum do not represent the majority of Control4's customer base. Control4's major customer base just want it to work, some of them are the 'VCR flashing 12:00' crowd, and an actual dealer can tell you better about what the 'typical' automation customer wants than I can, but from what I've seen, many if not most customers want the complexity taken away from them, and that includes, to some extent, not allowing them to 'screw it up'.

All of you (collectively) are certainly a *very important* part of Control4's customer base, the 'leading edge' consumers, technology-wise, and it's true, Control4 does *not* address *all* your needs as well as it could and maybe should.

I hope that someday in the future, that may be rectified, but at this point in time, if it doesn't meet your need for total control over your system, you unfortunately may have to choose something else.

I wish you well with your automation endeavors.

RyanE

[Kimi]

Kimi,

Did you read all the posts?

I told him how to find help and get his problem solved.

Dogdvr,

Yes I did read the posts and I did see yours as well. My post was more related to all the other posts and the discussion about the Control4 business model which has been discussed ad nauseam. Everyone who has spent any time on this forum already knows the salient points, so let's skip that part and go right to providing the help that is needed. In this economy I would have thought that a lot of dealers would jump in and at least offer their services. Any bricked unit just needs a new bootloader, and I would be surprised if this couldn't be done through Control4, again for a fee. And if Archivist has managed to brick a unit with ComposerPro, there might be a few other things he will need help with as well. My beef is with the approach of first trying to defend something that is not being attacked, rather than looking at this as an opportunity to expand a dealer's business. You did the right thing, but you were certainly in the minority.

[K&J]

This Gentleman obviously has Pro and as Ryan Stated' date=' Pro is Not meant for "End Users". There are Technical difficulties in updating systems and there are even "Dealers" that are Not paying attention to this.

Just the other day I picked up a Customer that a Dealer had updated a system that was Not intended to be updated without a proper controller. System was not working properly due to this Dealer Not Paying Attention to the update notes.

When an "End User" decides to try and use Pro by Whatever Means they receive it, it is Wrong..

If someone receives a copy of Windows or Office from a friend or other means and has trouble with it, is Microsoft responsible?

In any case this discussion will soon be put to rest with a future update and I quite frankly cannot wait..

Just because you purchase the equipment "Does Not" give you the Rights to the programming software. This is Proprietary Property..

Control 4 has made this Abundantly Clear.. Yet there is Always going to be someone to try and Hack or receive a Rouge Copy.. It's inevitable.. Using this point, the individuals Should Not expect assistance when using the Rouge copy of the software. When there is an issue with the equipment the End User Must go through a Certified Dealer in order to have that equipment repaired or replaced.

I challenge those that are under the impression that They can do this in a better manner to Develope their own Software and Equipment, spend the $$ to market, R&D, manufacture the equipment and put it out to the public..

Would you want your hard work being Pirated? More than likely not. If you do, Please do so and if Your equipment does equal or better than what is already out there, I will be one of your customers..[/quote']

Hey if your not helping stop spouting your C4 company line, you are one of the worst dealers here as far as giving anyone help, it seems that all you do is to repeat the same thing over and over

STFU and help some people here as that is what this forum is for, if you arent willing to help go lurk in the dealer only forum where you can play with what ever you want

You Are Absolutely Correct Wingzz..

I am the Worst to assist someone with PRO!! I Will Not Do It!!

Having PRO is Not For The End User!!

As I stated, Build Your Own!!

Don't Pirate The Software, Brick Something and Then Expect Assistance From A Dealer!!

I have Assisted Numerous individuals here.

I have Not One Customer that Would Not Hesitate to Refer Us to Others..

I have a Great Relationship with Every Single Customer We Have.

Have a Good Evening!

[RyanE]

Wow. I didn't know it was possible to 'internet shout' without using ALL CAPS.

Learn something new every day.

RyanE