chesterwilson Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 I've been lurking on this site trying to learn for the last couple of months and remain lost. Here is what I'm trying to do:Whole home audio14 zones of audioAt some point I would like to integrate surveillance, doorbell, thermostat, lighting etc, but wish to just setup a whole home audio system at this point.All zones are wired with cat5e ethernet which goes down to the basement and all rooms have speakers with speaker wiring going down into the basement.I will be getting 14 mini touch screen ethernet panels. What other equipment will I need to power all these zones:?Controller (do I need this and which one would power 14 zones)?Amplifier (maybe 2 since it's 14 zones)? Audio matrix (or can I just split the sources using that y cable trick)? POE switch for the 14 mini touch screensAnything else?thanks for your help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henniae Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 I've been lurking on this site trying to learn for the last couple of months and remain lost. Here is what I'm trying to do:Whole home audio14 zones of audioAt some point I would like to integrate surveillance, doorbell, thermostat, lighting etc, but wish to just setup a whole home audio system at this point.All zones are wired with cat5e ethernet which goes down to the basement and all rooms have speakers with speaker wiring going down into the basement.I will be getting 14 mini touch screen ethernet panels. What other equipment will I need to power all these zones:?Controller (do I need this and which one would power 14 zones)?Amplifier (maybe 2 since it's 14 zones)? Audio matrix (or can I just split the sources using that y cable trick)? POE switch for the 14 mini touch screensAnything else?thanks for your helpYou will need at least 1 Controller. How many Independent audio streams do you want to play at one time? A singe HC-300 can stream 2 independent audio streams. For 14 zones of audio you will need 2 C4 amps (capable of 16 zones)You would be best off with the audio matrix switch14 mini-touch screens. That is a lot of touch screens! You would be better off with a few 7" POE touch screens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkD Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 If any of your 14 rooms already have tvs in them you might consider putting an HC200 controller and remote in those rooms...14 touch screens definitely seems a *little* over the top to me. I've got one in the hallway just outside the kitchen that I use for controlling kitchen, great room and living room audio -- these rooms are usually playing the same source anyways, so I have custom buttons setup to select appropriate Media Scenes. I have another touch screen in the master bedroom, and in the family room I have an HC200 on the tv.I have an HC300 in the basement supplying two MP3 streams to my C4 amp, plus a multi-tuner and a pair of Apple Airport Expresses which allows me to play music from a PC/laptop using iTunes through C4 to in-ceiling speakers.To answer your question, it sounds to me like you need:- HC300 (two audio streams) or HC500 (three streams)- 2 x Control4 16-channel (8-zone) amp- 1 x Control4 16x16 audio matrix- Touch screens- POE switch for however many mini touches you go with- HC200 + SR-250 remote in place of some mini touchesAlso, keep in mind that an SR-250 remote can be changed to control any room in the house all on their own, further reducing the need for mini touches.M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 I too would shy away from 14 mini touches.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkD Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 Actually, I do keep wondering... is POE a genuine standard... and if so, does Control4 adhere to it with the POE Mini Touch screens? If I had a few would they work with a POE switch or would I require a Control4 POE injector? (Something I read on this site suggests that a POE switch would do the job.)M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henniae Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 Actually, I do keep wondering... is POE a genuine standard... and if so, does Control4 adhere to it with the POE Mini Touch screens? If I had a few would they work with a POE switch or would I require a Control4 POE injector? (Something I read on this site suggests that a POE switch would do the job.)M.PoE is a standard, it is IEEE 802.3af. Of course there is IEEE 802.3at which provides more power. That is the nice thing about standards, there are so many to choose from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chesterwilson Posted March 10, 2010 Author Share Posted March 10, 2010 I appreciate everyone's advice. I have come up with the following after taking everyone's suggestions, does this sound reasonable? I was planning on buying the devices myself, from the classifieds, ebay, etc. I would install them myself, but obviously I would need them programmed. How much do you think it would cost (rough approximate), to update the firmware to 1.8.2 and program the system?Master Bedroom (Zone 1)-Portable Wireless Touch Screen 10.5" V1 or V2Master Bathroom (Zone 2)-Mini Touch ScreenKitchen (Zone 3)-Portable Wireless Touch Screen 10.5" V1 or V2Family Room -HC-200Dining Room (Zone 4)-Mini Touch ScreenGarage (Zone 5)-LCD KeypadBasement Office (Zone 6)-Mini Touch ScreenWorkout Room (Zone 7)-LCD KeypadBasement Bar and Porch(Zone 7 + 8)-Mini Touch Screen1 C4-16AMP3-B1 HC-500Multi Tuner3 Thermostats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkD Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Watch out! You may need to run for cover before the dealers give you their 2 cents about buying from eBay, etc. LOL There probably are some dealers who will happily provide support on a pay-as-you-go basis. Others won't. That's all I have to say about THAT!My understanding is that Director 2.0 won't run on the V1 touch screens, so I'd avoid those if you hope to upgrade the software one day... just to be safe. I've never used one, but I suspect LCD Keypads will be a letdown next to touch screens.If this is the entire system, I suspect an HC-500 is overkill. My system currently consists of an HC-300 running Director with two amps (v2), 16x16 Matrix, Multi Tuner, HC-200 (family room), one WiFi Mini Touch (v2), and about 40 dimmers, switches and keypads... and a remote (SR-250). I've also got another remote and HC-200 on the way and have no doubts that they'll slot right in without problem. I happily play two different audio streams from the HC-300 (it has two outputs vs. three on the HC-500), two radio stations, plus I have a pair of Airport Express to run AirTunes. (Mac or Windows running iTunes can see the Airport and stream audio to it over the network; the Airport is located next to the Matrix and Amps, and each provides another input that I can distribute to any zone(s). Since I only use the Airports over wired network, I got two of the B/G versions on eBay for an average of $38 each.) Then again, the HC-500 could be considered as "future proofing"? On the other, other hand, I believe the 500 is now discontinued. Seriously, is there a "right" answer to this? =)I will let others comment on portable touch screens. I wanted one... but having recently put my first Mini Touch in, I've stopped pining for one and the Mini Touch won't get misplaced and my wife isn't complaining of lost counter space. =)In the interest of simplification and cost reduction, just give a though to whether you'll ever want music in the dining room and NOT in the kitchen, for example. If I have music on in the Kitchen, it's also on in the Great Room... virtually always (though on different zones)... hence I put my Mini Touch in the hallway right between the kitchen and great room and don't ever plan to have a screen dedicated to each room. I created "Media Scenes" to tie different zones into controllable groups. I see you've done that with your zones 7 and 8... so that's good! Think about master bed and bath too... are you likely to have different streams in those two rooms? Often enough to warrant a Mini Touch AND a 10.5"?Final thought: unless you buy any hardware that is already on 1.8.x, I don't see that there's any benefit to moving beyond 1.7.4.36 at this point. But if you do buy equipment from different sources you'll doubtless need to run through the upgrade process so that everything is on the same version.Okay, MORE final thoughts... you will need Composer Media Edition to import music, but you'll probably want a copy of Composer Home Edition (available only from a dealer, I suspect) in order to play with the system. (That's the best part, imho.) Also, if you have an HC-200 you will also want a remote. DEFINITELY get the SR-250 (with LCD screen on it)... don't even think about the older remotes.M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chesterwilson Posted March 10, 2010 Author Share Posted March 10, 2010 Thanks,Yeah I would happily buy from sources other than classifieds, ebay, etc. The problem of course being the cost, it looks like you can get the mini touch screens for 200-250 used or $600-$700 brand new. Thats a big gap, I could do 10-20% more but not double the cost. I will stick with the V2 10.5 screens as you said, I actually picked these in the bedroom and kitchen, because I don't want to have to get up and walk to the screens (they would be located on the bedroom night stand and kitchen island).I picked the lcd screens for areas that I would hardly use, perhaps your right and I should pay the extra money and upgrade these.I originally picked the hc-500 because of the hard drive, I figured I could upload my music to it, but perhaps I can just add a NAS.I did want to keep the master bath and bedroom on separate zones in case I want music in the bathroom but not in the bedroom, I suppose I could consider just using the 10.5 screen to control both as you indicated.Thanks for your help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkD Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 I'm with you on the cost issue... especially when the cost differential is often not just 2x, but 3x more! It's a question of how much the warranty is worth to you. If you have some gear go bad, only a dealer can provide the warranty support and you may be SOL. On the other hand, at $250 for a used Mini Touch vs $600, you're STILL ahead if you have to replace one. Pros and cons... support vs. cost.And yes, I would personally get an HC-300 plus NAS over an HC-500. Of course, I have WAY more music than can fit on an HC-500 so the NAS was always the way to go for me.Sounds like you've thought things out, so aside from the Keypads it all sounds good to me! =)M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henniae Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 ...And yes, I would personally get an HC-300 plus NAS over an HC-500. Of course, I have WAY more music than can fit on an HC-500 so the NAS was always the way to go for me...The HC-500 has 1 more audio out, 2 more serial ports and 3 more contacts and relays. The HC-300 and HC-500 have the same CPU and memory. If you need all these things the HC-500 is a good choice. I would still use a NAS for large external storage space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkD Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Hey, did half your house fall over? I notice you've gone from 14 zones down to 8! =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chesterwilson Posted March 10, 2010 Author Share Posted March 10, 2010 no my wife did when she saw what i was going to do!Needless to say Ive combined some zones! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chesterwilson Posted April 10, 2010 Author Share Posted April 10, 2010 I wanted to thank everyone who helped out on this thread, and one of my classified ads. I got everything running, and saved quite a bit of money by following everyone's suggestions. I did end up getting quite a bit of stuff new from a dealer and a few things off ebay. I will be looking to add light control and an hc-1000 in the future, when the budget allows. Thanks again for everyone's help, the system rocks, and I will try to help other "newbies" get started. Here is what I ended up doing.Master Bedroom (Zone 1)-IpadMaster Bathroom (Zone 2)-7" Touch ScreenKitchen (Zone 3)-Portable Wireless Touch Screen 10.5" V2Family Room (Zone 3)-HC-300 with SR-250Dining Room (Zone 4)-Using the Kitchen Touch screenGarage (Zone 5)-MTS V2Basement Office (Zone 6)-MTS V2Workout Room (Zone 7)-Using Basement office MTSBasement Bar and Porch(Zone 7 + 8)-Using Basement office MTS1 C4-16AMP3-B1 HC-300Multi Tuner with XM3 ThermostatsDSC IT-100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HookedOnC4 Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 I have 7 now adding 3 or 4 more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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