New Home Construction, Control4 Integration, what am I missing?

[darbsllim]

Hey guys, I'm constructing a new home and the electrician is wiring TODAY! The control4 guys are in tomorrow/Friday and I'm feeling the pinch!

I'm stressed out because there's things that I know I'm missing. My control 4 dealer is talking me out of a lot of things because he says it will be expensive and it seems like he isn't with the times.

audio zones

For instance, I am getting in wall speakers in 3 rooms upstairs and my living room downstairs. I want those rooms to all be able to play from a different source. (ie someone can be watching tv in the living room, someone can be listening to satelite radio in the kitchen, and someone can be listening to music from an ipod in the master bedroom)

He's telling me that there can only be 2 audio zones, one in the living room downstairs, and the other 3 upstairs would all be on the same zone and all I can do is control volume in each room, not source.

He says that if I want to make them all their own zone, it would cost me $3000 - is this true!?

independent audio controls

Also, I work from home, so I'm building a home office with 5.1 audio that I want to be integrated with my computer and the audio sources of control 4. He wasn't sure how to accomplish that.

I also have laptops, so when I am in different rooms, so I want to be able to send the audio from my laptop to the room that I'm in via a standard 3.5 mm TRS wall jack.

I want to be able to place a jack in each room, so if I'm in the kitchen doing some work, I could plug the laptop into the 3.5 mm jack in the kitchen and I could have the sound play through the kitchen speakers.

Same for the master bedroom, greatroom, etc.

What's the best way to accomplish that, he said that I can't do it because there's only 1 aux input in the receiver...so this means I can't use my speakers from my laptop in the rooms? That seems so 2005.

surveilance cameras

I read in electronic house that http://www.svat.com/productSelect.php?categoryNumber=100&sort=1 has great outdoor/indoor surveillance setups with DVR and video interruption.

He tells me these are junk and the only one he will go with is the ones he sell where the cameras are $500 each, thoughts on this?

energy management/monitor system

http://www.control4.com/energy/energy-products/

He doesn't know anything about this, he's not sure if it replaced the current ac/temperature control or if it's an addon, and he doesn't know the cost - is this a bad sign?

cable runs and control4 programming

is $95 per hour a normal rate for control 4 programming?

is $60 - $90 a normal cost for running cat5e cables? He's charging $35 for just the roughin.

rouhgin suggestions

If you guys have any suggestions on types of wire to roughin, or locations to rough wire in, I would really appreciate it! This guy doesn't seem like he's fully with the times, so I'm very afraid of paying 12k for something that is going to be impractical and won't work for me.

I'd like to have the option of adding things in later, but mostly, I just want to be able to have convenient features.

I'm getting an HC300 and 5.1 audio in the livingroom

5.1 in the office that I want to be hooked into my computer

ceiling speakers in 3 upstairs rooms, audio apparently tied into control 4 all as 1 zone

control4 thermostat upstairs

roughin cat5 in a few locations upstairs

roughin cat5 in a few spots downstairs

roughin security (he charges $1200 to finish so I'm gonna go with someone else)

programming and controlers/iphone/ipad/itouch

At $95 per hour I'd much rather program the stuff myself, except for the initial HC300 setup.

Does anyone know if it's reasonably easy to program this scenario:

Using a kwikset lock, when I unlock the door wirelessly with my iphone, it also disarms the security.

Using a kwikset lock, when I unlock the door via keypad code entry, it disarms the security.

When I'm in bed and I want to arm the seucrity and lock the doors, I can do so by pressing a button on the ipad/itouch

I know this is a lot of random questions, but I'm hoping someone can give me some insight. I feel like these guys are stuck in 2005 and all they know about is audio zones, and even that is disappointing to hear I can only have 2 zones when I have 5 rooms with audio.

[smccray]

For instance, I am getting in wall speakers in 3 rooms upstairs and my living room downstairs. I want those rooms to all be able to play from a different source. (ie someone can be watching tv in the living room, someone can be listening to satelite radio in the kitchen, and someone can be listening to music from an ipod in the master bedroom)

He's telling me that there can only be 2 audio zones, one in the living room downstairs, and the other 3 upstairs would all be on the same zone and all I can do is control volume in each room, not source.

If you have a matrix switch in your system it will supply the source to as many different zones as the matrix switch will output. You can look at the prices of 8x8 matrix switches- they're not inexpensive. When you calculate the cost to implement the separate zones make sure you include the cost of the equipment to run the speakers (e.g. amplifier, receiver).

I want to be able to place a jack in each room, so if I'm in the kitchen doing some work, I could plug the laptop into the 3.5 mm jack in the kitchen and I could have the sound play through the kitchen speakers.

Same for the master bedroom, greatroom, etc.

What's the best way to accomplish that, he said that I can't do it because there's only 1 aux input in the receiver...so this means I can't use my speakers from my laptop in the rooms? That seems so 2005.

You probably need some sort of IR controlled audio switch to automatically switch the different inputs into the aux input of your receiver. That said I wouldn't do this. Use the C4 system as its intended for the rest of the house and then have the laptop as the source in your office.

Can't comment on the cameras but most of what I've read confirms the addage that you get what you pay for. I have a hard time believing you'll get the same performance out of the system in that link as you would with the panasonic cameras, but I hope I'm wrong.

*****

What are you trying to accomplish with your C4 system? It seems a bit like you're trying to make control 4 perform its whole home audio functions without all the equipment. I looked into system options 14 months ago and decided on C4 because it's capability is strong compared to the alternatives, and the greater cost of the C4 system made sense to me. It's marketed as a budget system, but it's not cheap. I just a lowly end user, but I'd be surprised if the dealers on this site would spec the equipment you list for the goals you're trying to achieve.

If you're stressed out right now just focus on getting the wires right. If my memory serves there are a number of great posts on the board wiring suggestions. Worry about the rest of the details later and focus on the end goal, even if you can only accomplish a portion of your vision today. You don't have to do the whole project at once.

I suspect your dealer is going to install in wall analog volume control for your speakers upstairs. That's not the way I would go, but that's your call.

[ILoveC4]

That is a lot of questions...I'll make a comment or two now, and try and revisit this later today.

I don't know where your dealer is stuck, but it isn't 2005. I had everything you're looking at in 2005, and it was working great...I still have it today. You can get a Control4 Amp, available in either 4zones or 8. I have the 8 zone amp. It has 8 seperate zones, and 8 seperate inputs. That amp has a built in matrix switcher. I have 7 sources fed into my amp, and any of those 7 sources can be played on any of those 8 zones...all at the same time, any combo...it is awesome. The 8 zone amp is $2,500, and I believe the 4 zone amp is $1,500. That's MSRP.

IMO the use of laptops and minijacks is crazy. Put all your music on a NAS, and stream it using Control4's digital audio client. It supports MP3 and flac files, plus you have Rhapsody, which has literally millions of songs available. One HC300 has two audio outs, so you can have two seperate streams from one HC300. YOu can add more controllers, and add more streams.

$95/hr for programming isn't bad...just be aware that it will add up quick if you want him doing a bunch of one off stuff while you stand there and critique it.

I can't tell you much about cameras, sorry...not my forte.

Make sure you run a Cat5 to every location you might want a touchpanel in the future. Are you doing any video distribution? I would run smurf tub from every TV back to a home run location, so if you decide to do video distribution you can. With regards to paying $95/hr to run Cat5 cable, do it yourself. You'll know how the runs are routed, and you'll save some money. You know that he is paying some kid $10/hr to pull that cable...I think $95/hr to run cable is a lot.

Note, I am not a dealer, just some idiot that likes Control4. For how-to's on programming, check out my site. www.c4diy.com. I had a lot more content at my old URL, and I am working to get the rest of it restored....I should have most of it back by the end of the weekend. That should give you some fun ideas about what you can do with the system.

Sorry if I missed anything, kind of scatter brained today. Good luck with everything...I have built several homes and know the stresses you're going through! Remember...RUN CONDUIT/SMURF TUBE. It is a lifesaver for those OH SH*T moments when you realize you should have ran something else, run screw through a cable, whatever...

[ILoveC4]

Looks like smmcray and me posted at the same time.

I also wanted to add that the 4 zone and 8 zone amps provide seperate volume control for every zone. You just need access to a C4 remote, touchpanel, keypad, etc... to turn the volume up and down. Plus, you can set a default volume....I would definately get a C4 amp.

In wall volume knobs are not all that bad, but I wouldn't do them either. If I did, I would do it in addition to the proper amp, for those old school people that like turning a knob as opposed to pushing a button.

EDIT: Typo.

[smccray]

I'm not familiar with the C4 amps but based on that description go with one. Add C4 keypads to the rooms to control the volume localy if you don't plan on putting a remote in each room. The C4 keypads are $100 a piece but you'll be much happier with the implementation.

BTW Dan- been readying your programming advice for a while on C4Central and now C4DIY

[ILoveC4]

BTW Dan- been readying your programming advice for a while on C4DIY

I'm glad you like the site. Check my quote, the word I left out is a bad word

Hopefully everyone realizes I am just having fun here...no hard feelings.

[Rsmolo]

it looks like your dealer wants to do your system very, very cheep. Connect all sources to receiver and than zone2 from that receiver to amp to power other speakers.

If you want independent sources/controll in each room it will cost you but it can definitely be done. Video and audio matrix switch will take care of it. I've installed system with 26 independent zones with independet volume control etc.

Since you are building new home, make sure you have enough wire to do anything you want in the future, cat5e to possible TP, 2coax+3cat5e/cat6 to each tv location, all wires to central location, local source wires (bedroom dvd etc)

Other thing I would say is that when customer asks me about something that I don't know, my answer is " I will find out what are our options and how much will it cost " and not "it can't be done"