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Starting new project need a lot of equipment


ankur1234

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Fellow C4 members. I am just starting to gather all the equipment for my house project. I found a dealer here locally who would program the things for me as long as they are all zigbee pro with 2.0 So here goes my shopping list and please send me quotes / for sale offers (Bulk or Individual Items, Mostly New will be pref). Kindly also correct me if I am wrong any where. I am under the assumption that I can get most of the products for under MSRP.

Qty Product

1 HC1000

1 HC300

2 HC200

2 Fireplace Switches

4 Door Locks (Dead Bolts with Keys)

40 Dimmers (White)

15 Keypads (White)

1 Thermostat

10 Occupancy sensors

15 motion sensors

1 8x8 HDMI video Matrix Switch ( I know very expensive but looking for a good used one for cheap).

If you have any questions kindly call me on 303-523-6659

Anil

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You did not specify if the HC 300 and 200's with remotes or not. I also do not see keypads that is a must of 3 way switches the very least some sort of interface.

Just as a caution. A dealer putting things together and a dealer designing the system with you is different. Even if the dealer puts all the gear together properly. A poorly designed system will one not maximize the use of your hardware, two might not be functional as you would hope it would be.

Interview a few dealers, check references (important). But my strong suggestion is to involve a dealer that will design and install the system for you.

BTW, I'm not a dealer, still looking for a good one. The last three I've experienced were disappointments. Unfortunately, looking for a good one is not an easy task, as it seems to be.

Good Luck

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Hi Arriba

Thank you very much for your reply. Yes I guess I need keypads which is what I thougth were the switches. I will edit the orginal post. I tried a lot of dealers so far and my problem has been they all want $1000.00 just to design the system and give me a quote. The one dealer who gave me a free quote without the design came out at $31000.00 which is also too high for a house my size. I am OK for paying for the designing but $1000 seems toooooo high. I have another few appointments on Monday and Wed with a few other dealers. One of them is the dealer who said that they can sell and install the system with just basic integration and give me the felxibility to customize things. I might just go with him end of day. I am just looking to save money on some major things like the 1000 (with remote) and the door locks and the matrix switch.

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Just rough guessing, it would appear you have around $15k alone in equipment (at MSRP) .. not unusual for labor, programming, planning, etc. to equal that as well. Not saying it should, but not unusual.

That $15k for hardware was what I had estimated. Too bad the county where I live only has 15,000 people! That is some mighty lucrative work.

$16,000 on top of margin on $15,000 worth of hardware to install what amounts to 80 light switches into a Control4 project. I like my Control4 system a lot. I wish I had discovered it back when I lived in the big city and still wanted a job. :cool:

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ankur, I'd love to help. I just coming from this process so I know how painful it could be SOMETIMES. But seriously go through your project layout, revise it, then REVISE IT and when you think you're done revise it some MORE.

Cheers

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tigrzeye, (Just asking) 16,000 of install & programming is roughly 160 hours at $100/per hour. Are you saying 160 hours (at any rate) is what it would take for a project this size?

This will equal to about 22 days to complete the install. Really, just asking?

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My guess is when you factor "install" that includes some interconnect wires, fittings, etc...

$15k to program that equipment is way too much, unless you've got some seriously intense and advanced programming in mind that you haven't mentioned.

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Letran ..

That does not mean I am suggesting I think that is what it would or should cost to install and program the OP's project. Nor do I think a quote like that is reasonable or fair. Sorry to say though I have seen that kind of labor and programming costs quoted.

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My guess is when you factor "install" that includes some interconnect wires, fittings, etc...

$15k to program that equipment is way too much, unless you've got some seriously intense and advanced programming in mind that you haven't mentioned.

+1 on this

we do not know how much wire is to be pulled and or how much repair work will be needed, Holes in walls etc.

No you do not need 160 hours to program this project, but some of the time will be spent installing it.

(I am not defending this quote, I am just saying we are lacking information)

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I have to agree with dogdvr. We don't have enough info on what the design and install will entail to say that $31k is too high or low.

Just the dimmers and keypads is over $7000 MSRP.

He has an 8x8 HDMI switch. That is a few $$$.

There is no info on wiring or how the video will be distrusted. With an 8x8 switch there must be 8 displays. Eight HDMI runs will not be cheap either.

With all due respect. It is not unusual to have to pay for a design if it just a design without the assurance of purchasing equipment with install. If I design a system for free and give you the design you could just go to another dealer and what have I for my efforts? Nada. Would you expect an architect to design a house for you and give you the design for free?

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Friends, Just to clarify a few minor things.

1. Absolutly no wiring needed. I already pulled 3 CAT6 cables per room and terminated them to a patchpanel. In addition there are 2 CAT5's running for phone and internet or anything I can use it for. No speakers needed as they are already wired in all the location I want to the basement into to a AVR.

2. I would love to pay for a design but $1000.00 seems too high.

3. The quote from the dealer specifically says (I am going to cut and paste) - Price includes shipping, installation (but not the actual installation of the electrical dimmers/switches), programming, and sales tax

4. 8x8 HDMI matrix switch is about 2400-3500 depending on which one I buy off ebay. Most of them work with Control4 and have drivers included. (Was told so, do not know the truth).

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Then there is always the fact that if you buy the equipment off eBay (REMEMBER NO WARRANTY)

A. you take away profit on equipment for the dealer

and B. if the equipment bought is faulty in any way the dealer may spend more time just trying to make it work right and more calls than normal for "fix it" return trips. May have a built in CYA time factor.

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No wiring needed? I don't buy it. They'll need to tire in IR blasters, terminate cables, etc...

Plus, all the interconnections between your components. I can assure you that you're not in possession of every cable and fitting that will be required, unless you own a Radio Shack. Even then, you probably wouldn't have it all.

Do any of those quotes include a rack? That could easily be $3k parts and a lot of labor.

My advice would be to buy new equipment with a warranty. I'd buy it from the guy that will do the install and let him make a little money there too, he'll be a lot more inclined to go the extra mile and do little favors for you if you let him make money. I know that I don't want to be that PITA customer that wants everything for free.

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Ankur, I will say this once: "you get what you pay for".

Your system will only be as good as your installer and programmer. I completely understand comparing prices and such. But when you piece a system together with parts from ebay and whatever other online method, then get the local security company or whoever to half install and program. Well, let me just say good luck to you. It also spells "lose your butt" to any real integrator who is asked to come in and get it working. That's why you have such high proposals. They have no idea what kind of wood chopper they're walking into with parts and a system designed by the customer.

My advise to you would probably be to go with a professional integrator that is willing to simply charge by the hour. They can give you an idea what it's going to cost, but just charge by the hour or day. That way, if everything you've purchased is fine and what is needed. They're in and out and everyone is happy. BUT, if all this "stuff" that you have managed to "piece" together is faulty or not what's really needed etc. The integrator is not on the hook for your actions.

Good luck with it, and I'd love to know how it turns out.

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Exactly, this is the correct approach. As an IT professional and tech hobbyist, I became annoyed at dealers when pricing my system who came up with scare stories such as "eBay = no warranty", "we must do the pre-wire or it won't work" etc... While this may be correct in some sense, it is essentially a form of insurance. I didn't want to pay an insurance premium consisting of MSRP equipment, $75 per hour pre-wire service by dealer and $10,000 design. So I self-insured by paying my integrator by the hour. So far my system and dealer relationship has been great. Find a flexible and reasonable dealer and form a mutually beneficial partnership.

BTW, $1,000 is a very reasonable design fee. This is easily expended in discussing your requirements, calculating equipment requirements, pricing etc. I have seen design fees from $5,000 and higher.

Ankur, I will say this once: "you get what you pay for".

Your system will only be as good as your installer and programmer. I completely understand comparing prices and such. But when you piece a system together with parts from ebay and whatever other online method, then get the local security company or whoever to half install and program. Well, let me just say good luck to you. It also spells "lose your butt" to any real integrator who is asked to come in and get it working. That's why you have such high proposals. They have no idea what kind of wood chopper they're walking into with parts and a system designed by the customer.

My advise to you would probably be to go with a professional integrator that is willing to simply charge by the hour. They can give you an idea what it's going to cost, but just charge by the hour or day. That way, if everything you've purchased is fine and what is needed. They're in and out and everyone is happy. BUT, if all this "stuff" that you have managed to "piece" together is faulty or not what's really needed etc. The integrator is not on the hook for your actions.

Good luck with it, and I'd love to know how it turns out.

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Fellow Members,

It sounds like some of you have decided / Judged that I do not want to pay an integrator or for that matter like one post suggested FREE. Please understand I am still going to hire someone to do the work, its not like I got trained in C4 programming. I am just trying to procure some essential hardware for a lower price so that I can save money and pay a good programmer to do the work of putting the pieces together. EOD if I can get a new HC1000 for less then MSRP (my thoughts around $1000) (just like electronic shopping online) I would love to save that money. If I cannot get a major price difference I am not going to take chances and will go with a neighborhood dealer. May be my mistake was trying to explain why I was buying all these things. I got one call today from a nice gentleman (thanks to this forum) to sell me some hardware but other than that almost all of the posts here did not have a single new item offer of sale. Kindly understand I am just a Novice and most of you have the necessary experience to understand how the system works. I do not know how the system even works except for the white papers I read. I have a few appointments set for tomorrow (like I said before). Lets see what they have to offer. If I cannot justify the price difference between getting material from here v/s the dealer I will just buy every thing from the dealer directly.

My final word.

I am not trying to be cheap, I am attempting to be thrifty. I hope not to offend any one.

Thank You again for all your inputs, most of them have been educational.

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That 8:8 HDMI matrix could easily be $10k by itself...

Just as an aside, I've seen the Atlona AT-PROHD88M-SR 8x8:2 with cat5/6 hdmi extenders running at ~$5k on ebay...

No idea if they are a good model though - just found a few through searching "8x8 hdmi matrix switch"

On that note, the MSRP right off the Gefen web site is 3999.99 for their 8x8 Crosspoint Matrix for HDMI 1.3 I suppose if you needed hdmi CAT5/6 extenders, they would be on top of that, as this Gefen model is strictly hdmi switching with no extension capability built-in. the Gefen model seems to support both RS-232 and IP based control - but it looks like they mean IP control to mean it has a web interface, not direct IP-control in the normal meaning of the term... but I could be wrong.. documentation is sparse for this model.

Don

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