"Cloud" automation.. huh???

[tilimil]

These are very narrow-minded responses from a lot of CE professionals. Let me give you another viewpoint.

I personally think this is a good idea. Those of us from the enterprise IT space are seeing very real benefits from "cloud" which can mean a lot of things. Many of these same benefits can be realized by the individual consumer. The controllers like the HC1000 are little more than storage and CPU. All they need is IP connectivity and that doesn't mean it has to be inside your house. If I can get an HC1000 that is nothing more than a virtual machine in a data center and it is half the price of the HC1000 I would be willing to give it a shot. The only thing I can see that might break this model is if you have a very unreliable and/or slow internet connection (i dont). It is a win for everyone because I can let them manage it do updates etc. Control4 can get to market quicker with new products. There are all sorts of other cool possibilities when you move the application (HC1000) into the cloud.

Are there some other gotchyas and things that would need to be worked through? Sure' date=' we are going through that now in the enterprise space. But there is certainly a lot of merit in these ideas.[/quote']

I am not sure i would call it narrow-minded.. i would prefer that my clients house works on the basis that if their internet goes down or if they are downloading massive amounts of data or movies that their house isnt effected by the bandwidth issues.. I understand the concept but from a reliability stand point i will take my controller running inside my own network any day of the week.

Just imagine the support calls people saying this or that isnt work then the first question is well are you streaming a movie or downloading big files, does your internet work etc etc etc.. Imagine the homes that only have cell phone modem service or no internet service at all...

Kevin, you point out valid concerns. You are assuming that someone downloading a large file would break their system. You are also assuming that the internet going down would render their system completely unusable. Architectures will change and technology will be enhanced to address these types of issues. People argued this about VoIP vs TDM, cellular telephones vs land lines, software as a service vs fat apps. Guess what? Those people are watching their jobs disappear.

Will you get more reliability by always having local resources? Maybe. Is the additional cost for local resources going to justify a marginal increase (if any) in reliability? I doubt it. There may be a small market segment that is always going to pay for the premium system with max reliability. But the mainstream will sacrifice a little reliability for a lower cost.

I like the way dg said it: It not if, its when.

[dogdvr]

OK

I guess I can see the software living in the cloud, but they make it sound like you don't need physical equiptment.

Yet, if you read further, they talk about controlling clipsal etc. lighting systems.

So you still need a "black box" that has serial connections.

( I guess that can be a home pc with rs232 card)

They talk about controling zwave zigbee etc.

Still need a "black box"

IR control?

Cloud sounds good but no IR

So what exactly are the keeping on the cloud? your programming?

Already done to a limited amount by C4 AMX and Crestron.

All three are working on better services to allow you to turn on your bathroom fan from 3000 miles away. (why?, I don't know)

And don't get me started on why I need to control my DVD player from the other side of the country

[tilimil]

What if Ethernet replaces rs232 and wireless replaces ir. These two things are already happening and no reason to think it won't continue. No doubt physics are going to always pose some limitations but I think everything will continues to collapse into the network as software negating the need for some of these black boxes u reference.

I think u guys are constraining your thoughts to the architectures that exist today.

[dogdvr]

No we are not constraining ourselves, but we have learned not to believe in "what if"

When it is here, I will believe in it.

I guess you are dreaming and I am trying to see the practical.

OK

but it is the start of 2011, not 2014

[henniae]

[

Kevin, you point out valid concerns. You are assuming that someone downloading a large file would break their system. You are also assuming that the internet going down would render their system completely unusable. Architectures will change and technology will be enhanced to address these types of issues. People argued this about VoIP vs TDM, cellular telephones vs land lines, software as a service vs fat apps. Guess what? Those people are watching their jobs disappear.

Will you get more reliability by always having local resources? Maybe. Is the additional cost for local resources going to justify a marginal increase (if any) in reliability? I doubt it. There may be a small market segment that is always going to pay for the premium system with max reliability. But the mainstream will sacrifice a little reliability for a lower cost.

I like the way dg said it: It not if, its when.

I have install many VOIP systems both using local VOIP servers as well as VOIP servers hosted in the "cloud". When the customers Internet goes down the VOIP hosted in the cloud stops working.

Software as a service like Google apps. When Comcast had 2 huge outages people could not get to their cloud hosted apps.

[tilimil]

Fair enough. Definitely agree that timing is key here. Good talk.

[wappinghigh]

OK

I guess I can see the software living in the cloud, but they make it sound like you don't need physical equiptment.

Yet, if you read further, they talk about controlling clipsal etc. lighting systems.

So you still need a "black box" that has serial connections.

( I guess that can be a home pc with rs232 card)

They talk about controling zwave zigbee etc.

Still need a "black box"

IR control?

Cloud sounds good but no IR

So what exactly are the keeping on the cloud? your programming?

Already done to a limited amount by C4 AMX and Crestron.

All three are working on better services to allow you to turn on your bathroom fan from 3000 miles away. (why?, I don't know)

And don't get me started on why I need to control my DVD player from the other side of the country

Brent, I think you're spot on. I've delved into this in more detail. Actually I looked at these guys 2 years back (when they had their PC based system)

They were expensive. In the AMX ballpark. And I didn't want a PC based solution. They struggled, and I recall they were either bought out by Clipsal (now Schnider Electric) or there was some sort of tie up.

I know someone who deals in their gear. Several pieces of "black box"/IR control/mediaplayer/server type devices (of the type you mention) are still listed on his website. This gear was expensive...

I'll ask the dealer what is going on if you like and report back.

I'm all for "clarity" of information within this industry. There is way too much "spin" going on for my liking

.......There are consumer laws here for "deceptive and misleading conduct" in our fair trading act...so they had better have their facts right on this news release... :|

[tilimil]

I have install many VOIP systems both using local VOIP servers as well as VOIP servers hosted in the "cloud". When the customers Internet goes down the VOIP hosted in the cloud stops working.

Software as a service like Google apps. When Comcast had 2 huge outages people could not get to their cloud hosted apps.

Thanks for making my point. Both of these technologies continue to take market share from legacy technologies. Why? Because they are cheaper an reliability is good enough. Google is eating microsofts lunch and vonage/skype are killing traditional communications offerings.

[dogdvr]

If your point is that there is "something at the end of the rainbow" then yes, we proved your point.

But HAS google killed MS office? no

it is taking market share (and doing it fast)

But you have just proved my point.

Dreaming and hoping for the next big thing is fun. Using a system that exists now causes alot less headaches.

We all should dream and hope, thats how innovation happens.

But I saw people (during the HD DVD - BluRay battle), saying "I am waiting for cloud based services"

That was 2007, and they are still waiting. (I know you can get alot of movies you don't want from the cloud, but not always the movies you DO want)

If you want automation go with what we have today. If you want automation in the future, then wait.

But remember, no matter when you buy in, something better is just around the corner.

Brent

[dgbrown]

henniae - Look up Lightpath and M5 both are delivering commercial grade hosted voip in major US markets reliably to commercial concerns, read hedge funds, etc. Sure there are draw backs to hosted cloud services but there are companies doing it - and doing it successfully.

brent - Google hasn't killed MS Office, but MS is certainly feeling the pressure. Check out Office Live.

I don't think anyone here is dreaming, wanting to buy something that's not here today, or suggesting you sell the same. We're just taking issue with the "it's not going to happen" posture.

Sea change will come to home automation. The cable company's are knocking at the door, as are the national security company's. As a smart business man, Will West is certainly looking further down the horizon. Sure there's gear to be sold, but the money will come in licensing and services - it's the American way.

Peace out !

[wappinghigh]

The more I think about this, the more it looks like a "cloud HC1000"... hardly innovative, failsafe, reliable or responsive

I wonder if Control4 have actually tried this themselves....

[RyanE]

As Control4's 'local' Director is hosted on Linux, I can't imagine it would be terribly difficult for Control4 to move Director to run as a cloud service.

At this point, though, as others have said, I think it's likely a bit premature.

RyanE