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Hardware

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    Is there a way to program without being a dealer

    in General Control4 Discussion

    Posted

    13 minutes ago, ntlord said:

    Simply put, the system is locked down so that Control4 and its dealers can make more money. So please, let's dispel any myths about Control4 having some altruistic goal to increase the level of support for its end users. It's about the money. It's always about the money. 

    Now, perhaps some dealers may feel otherwise. Perhaps, some dealers such as yourself, truly believe it is about providing the best experience to the customer. I think that's naive, but it doesn't really matter. All that matters is what Control4 thinks its dealers think. And if Control4 thinks the dealers would go crazy about opening up the system, regardless of the ultimate reason why that is, it will never open up the system. And that's a shame. Everyone could make more money if the system were open. 

    Simply put, your opinion is disproven by fact. 

    Is there a way to program without being a dealer

    in General Control4 Discussion

    Posted

    2 minutes ago, therockhr said:

    So what is your point? Because some Control4 dealers have done bad installs this means ALL end users would not be able to program their systems?!?

    My point is bad dealers lose business and go away or lose Control4. Don't go to someone who just took on the line if you want an advanced system. Don't hire Best Buy if you need more than a universal remote. I don't take a Lambo (oh no another car reference) to the kid down he street who could work on my kids Honda just fine. 

    Is there a way to program without being a dealer

    in General Control4 Discussion

    Posted

    Just now, therockhr said:

    Correct, the dealers don't want it opened because they want that potential for service calls if they want.

    Control4 fears making the dealers mad and losing them to another company that offers that exclusivity.

    Any other reason is BS.

    That's just incorrect. Service isn't a luxury for dealers. Control4 actually models their system for less "truck roll"... Things professionals know...

    Is there a way to program without being a dealer

    in General Control4 Discussion

    Posted

    Just now, therockhr said:

    I'm going to assume you meant to say "and since some that do it 365 days a year still can't do it well"...

    You know that some people just aren't very good at what they do know matter how much they do it...

    Yes. You know that dealers and Control4 get calls from unsatisfied customers with other dealers... that many previous new/old Control4 dealers have gone out of business or lost their dealership. It's not like they just get one and its done. 

    Is there a way to program without being a dealer

    in General Control4 Discussion

    Posted

    Just now, therockhr said:

    Most of the arguments from end users on this board have always been "i understand not marketing it as a end user programmed system and just posting a download link on their website to composer pro". What most on here have said is that if someone is really interested in maintaining their OWN system with Control4 with Pro their should be some kind of way to get access (a fee and/or some minimal training like Lutron) to that with the known restrictions that you are on your own for support.

    We have reviewed the reasons why Control4 and Dealers don't want this and it doesn't have to do with profits. 

    Is there a way to program without being a dealer

    in General Control4 Discussion

    Posted

    1 minute ago, Pounce said:

     

    Maybe you do, but I don't.

     

    ...I'm not talking about installation ability. 

    3 minutes ago, Pounce said:

    I think customer know dealers are people and people are not always high performing. C4 customers are sometimes very smart and very capable and in some cased substantially more qualified to work with software and hardware than a person that went to a week long class.

    My dealer told me my amp was broken. He gave me a quote while he was looking at it in the rack. I asked him if it was plugged in. He said it wouldn't power on. I asked him if he checked the power. He said yes, when he hit the power button it wouldn't turn on. I walked behind the rack and flipped the power switch. It turned on. I should trust this person because they are a profession. I get it.

    I think dealers could equally share days of stories about going to job sites for issues that were self inflected on the client end that they still don't understand... or being frustrated because they assumed they could do something without asking the dealer specifically when designing the project. It's an equal game. 

    Is there a way to program without being a dealer

    in General Control4 Discussion

    Posted

    5 minutes ago, DIEHARD said:

    I always try not to comment on these as they get nowhere but it does build up over time so here is my 2 cents..

    I don't get all this comparisons to cars... If you buy a car no matter how expensive or what brand/make/model.... the point is it's your car and you can choose to service it as you wish with a dealership or do it yourself. 

    With C4 the feeling for me is I still do not "own" my system as I do not have full control of it even though it is fully purchased. EVERYONE short of many of the dealers on this forum I have ever had conversations with all refuse to use C4 for this very reason. I can't disagree. I love it and it's abilities but for the majority they are not going to even be seen as an option as there are so many more open cheaper options out there actually have wider capabilities though not being as streamlined as C4.

    I did get my first hands on with C4 due to being in a new construction community. The initial year passed in the community so I put feelers out to see who was not using their gear to see if I could get more equipment. I have had 2 people in the entire neighborhood say they still had an active 4site subscription to control their Thermostat. It blew my mind to here so many say "what smart switches?" or "I wondered why those switches looked diffrent than the rest." and "I wondered what that C4 box (EA-1) was for." In the end I have more people offering to sell me EA-1's than I can fathom buying let alone using!.. And this was just "my" neighborhood. The builder did 5 neighborhoods that year all with the "smart home" package. That is so much unused equipment!

    How is that helping C4? Why is that the market C4 is going for? I have no idea how this strategy is paying off other than they only need one actual "sale/install" in the neighborhood and the price is going to be so high it covers the cost of all the hardware they just threw away?? Ya I still don't get it. Also they have now flooded the market with gear that only the DIYers could find a use for anyway because with C4 it's all about selling a package/solution and don't have any model to build your system one component at a time due to having to hire someone else to add it to your system. They do not have to change their dealer model even as if you do it yourself and need help... you still need to contact a dealer.

    Anyway.. we are all here because of our love/hate for C4. I do feel that giving end users full control of their system would cause way more love than hate for them. This forum is with out quesion in a silo and outside of it there is far more hate than love found for c4. Actually let them use it and I guarntee that changes!

    /rant off

    The references to cars aren't about being able to do them yourself... and even so... I can't go put a remote starter in my new car, I need a certified garage for that. 

    Is there a way to program without being a dealer

    in General Control4 Discussion

    Posted

    11 hours ago, Pounce said:

    I still don't get this. Sorry. I think we are talking about owning a product we can't as the owner maintain and that a dealer is required. My Porsche dealer would love me to bring it in for oil changes, but I don't have to. I can change my own oil. Ok, I have taken it in on occasion when I wanted to test drive the loaner.

    With C4 I have friends that would spend the 50-100k, but wont because they can't "change the oil". 

    The point is about changing company structure for sales... not self management. You're friends can buy something else. That's not what the product is. People refuse to believe that professionals know better about automation just because they can work the drop down menus in composer.

    Is there a way to program without being a dealer

    in General Control4 Discussion

    Posted

    Just now, Pounce said:

    Huh?

    I have a Cayenne Turbo and work on it. What's your point?

    Good choice. I think a Macan GTS is next for me.  My point is just because a demographic is available for business doesn't mean a company alters their product structure when it doesn't make sense. 

    3 minutes ago, Pounce said:

    Can I have some of that Koolaid?

    First, we've gone from "wouldn't it be great for those customers that are perfectly capable to manage their own system and extend it in ways that are meaningful to them?" to using a term that I think you are using in a derogatory way, DIY'r. I think you are also assuming a problem that just hasn't happened and hasn't been tested.

    What I am talking about are customers more technically qualified than the dealers showing up. The problem for the most part is that there are bad dealers. Having to use a dealer without choice and getting bad ones is a serious customer satisfaction impact.

     

     

    Bad "dealers" exist in all shapes. I didn't have a choice when replacing my HVAC during the holidays in freezing temps. End users tend to act like they are getting raked over the coals with cost. Not all things that cost a lot equal profit for the dealer...who is usually fronting some or all of the equipment cost and overhead costs.You have a choice of who you use. One bad dealer means nothing about the rest in the area. Do some research and have accountability if you want them to. 

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