Timothy Francis

On 6/18/2019 at 10:44 PM, blub said:

Since growth wasn't good it most likely can only be achieved by lowering entry cost and addressing DIY.
Sell ea3's for 300 to 500, eat for 1200 to 1500 and make the whole ecosystem based on subscriptions and price it by project size.
To keep the dealer happy they could get a cut of the subscription based on zip codes or whatever....

C4s argument for being dealer based was that this ensures high quality. Going hardware less, like with an app will likely compromise the stability of the system. I think the Control4 controller in conjunction with the software is the main reason for the solid platform - going to be an IoT system certainly isn't what Control4 wants and should be.

I doubt that a separation between DIY system software and dealer software makes sense.
Anyone who has been with Control4 in the 1st days knows that setting up a small to mid-size system with a TV, AVR, contacts and lights is a no brainer for anyone who has grown up with software and hardware - the more complex it gets the more a knowledgeable dealer pays off.
So devices could be grouped in categories of DIY or dealer installable or it could depend on the project size
My 2cents
 

I agree. The DIY market will continue to grow, but the way I see it, the actual controller or 'intelligence' will be some sort of cloud service, so a SAAS type approach to avoid the cost of hardware, but will have a recurring cost. Essentially what a NEST CAM is in comparison to a self-managed NVR; both have pros and cons, and I think common sense dictates which platform works best for which customer. Obviously SAAS approaches have implications relating to recurring costs  that are not fixed, security and ownership of the system.

In my opinion few dealers actually 'do' automation or fully integrated control. Control4 and other systems are deployed in a manner that is akin to what Harmony and a voice could achieve for a little less money on the 'single room' basis.

The typical 'resi' installation is all about zoned AV control, maybe lights, maybe climate controls. There is little in the way of actual real automation programming being done by the large majority of installers, regardless of the control platform. Ultimately this erodes the value of the industry as a whole, or at least the perceived value of it.

Comparatively speaking Control4 is NOT expensive: ELAN, Savant and Crestron are all more expensive. As nice as Savant is, it uses fairly agressive tactics to encourage dealers to use their products, or rather, to punish them if they don't - as an added bonus, vendor support is nowhere near as big as C4; NEST being one of many examples one could cite.

I can also reveal that 50% of the people who are becoming Savant dealers are electricians and similar, thus this will erode things further - because AV installers used to have a genuine passion for all things AV, including audio quality.

We all know where Crestron falls in this - go an buy a $50 Roku device for your Crestron managed system, and you'll get a $800 bill to have it installed.

ELAN is nice, but just not as well supported by vendors for drivers, and the hardware costs are well above C4, and further the product range is not as complete, and therefore relies on relatuvely pricey 3rd party products such as those by Global Cache.

I have used RTI and URC too, and cost wise, Control4 certainly isn't more expensive on modestly sized projects.

Without doubt the DIY market will continue to grow, and within that Control4 has a place in it - and it is something that will work within that market rather than being a purely binary option option.

The best way to look at this is not for it to be reduced to a simple 'either or' approach, it can be more of case of 'this AND that' if there is a genuine value proposition for the end user to use a combination of technologies.

Arguing which is better, DIY or Control4, is akin to the facile debate of whether HDBT is better or worse than AVoIP - both technologies have their place, both have their strengths and weaknesses, but there are cases where the best design solution is to use a combination of the two, rather than one or the other.

Ultimately the lower to middle income Generation X'ers and Millenials are tech savvy, and most will shop around and most will try and do it themselves, no matter how attractive the hardware cost of any of the big automation brands - because ultimately, and I am one of them, we believe it is something we are capable of doing on our own.

The actual value behind custom install is not solely the technical specifications of a product, or its brand perception, but the abilities of the installer; the real question is whether the the end-user believes there is any value in paying for these skills.

I can tell you that in the main that the average user does not appreciate the value of a custom installer, and thus will either go the DIY route, or will select a dealer who can do it at the cheapest price - a bit like getting that new bathroom fitted. Ergo the DIY market grows.

There is a place for the automation/integrated controls installer, but I think it is isn't wise to focus your attention on that end of the market too much, it is a battle you ultimately won't win unless you can commodotise it; the value a dealer is meant to offers is a service in the form of design, consultation and programming, rather than a product bundle - and in the main, the average consumer doesn't actually get that, we are too used going onto Amazon, buying a piece of tech, and installing it DIY, be it a printer, or a TV, or Hue light bulb.