CFUG Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Well, partially. There's only so much you can do with a softener as they are smart to begin with. The driver for this roots back to neighbor concern with noise generated during regen. A 2:00am regen is not "friendly" when your neighbor is 10 feet away. Instead, I set the time to 12:00 noon. That, in itself, poses a problem for users here who run the water then. The problem is hard water breakthrough during the regen bypass. A Card Access Contact Sensor tapped into the system watches SERVICE and REGENERATION modes. Control4 then talks back to a central water flow valve, sends announcements every 15m of regen phase and changes color on some LEDs, The flow valve shuts-off supply to the house (downstream of the softener) temporarily then resumes flow upon completion. The addition of a CA Relay could be used to trigger a manual regen but that's not currently in the plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Nice hack. I've thought of adding something like this to mine, but integrate it in with Control4: http://hackaday.com/2014/10/29/water-softener-level-detector-keeps-you-out-of-trouble-with-wife/ RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted June 11, 2015 Author Share Posted June 11, 2015 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted June 11, 2015 Author Share Posted June 11, 2015 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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CFUG Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 Gave up on brine tank automation. Not practical at all for those who use crystals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turls Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I wonder if this is the same type of way TexasBill has his water softener integrated with leak detection (FloLogic): http://www.c4forums.com/topic/9973-flo-logic-water-shut-off-system-and-control-4/ I don't have a water softener yet, but one is in my future and I'm thinking ahead a little. Regen may trigger FloLogic without an override. I have an override setup for my sprinkler system but that schedule is controlled by C4 and easy to integrate, regen in a water softener would not be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 You could probably tell when you're starting a regen cycle by the power consumption of the softener unit, since they use almost no power during 'non-regen' use, and would have a power spike when firing solenoids / valves to do the brine tank fill / rinse cycles. RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 ^^- I'm not reading where Texasbill has integrated water treatment. Flologic wasn't what I was looking for- flow rate is kind like motion sensing, errors of commission too likely. And, remember, Flologic cannot be applied to incoming water lines larger than "3/4 service". ^Newer units like the Fleck 7000 have very little I-draw when the synch. motor starts-up. A CA relay, for example, may not be able to detect it. What I did is a direct sensor on the unit's drive cam. Very simple and very positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turls Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 ^^- I'm not reading where Texasbill has integrated water treatment. Flologic wasn't what I was looking for- flow rate is kind like motion sensing, errors of commission too likely. And, remember, Flologic cannot be applied to incoming water lines larger than "3/4 service". If he didn't mention water softener integration in that thread he did in another thread. Also, flow rate is not error-prone if done correctly (it is minimal setup). You can adjust for whatever your typical level is. I never get false alarms because of flow level, and I've had the thing over 3 years. I wasn't meaning to hi-jack the thread but just trying to determine why I would or would not need softener integration with my setup (which I'm convinced I would, but not sure what the best way is). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 ^The softener's DLFC dictates the flow rate during a backwash. That flowrate is probably not greater than the largest flowing bath tub faucet you might have. However, that phase could run longer than what you have programmed into that FL gadget. Therein lies the problem. If you set it up the way I've outlined here, you can get around this. The exception being if you wanted to interrupt/intercept the main valve's action. That, I can't help you with. You say you adjust for whatever "typical level" is. In my house, nothing is ever quite typical. Kids want to play water hose tag, would that be considered "typical" of flow or a "leak"? How about errors of omission then? You say no falses for 3 years but do you go around and test for positive trigger? To each his own but for some, that pipe size brick wall is not going away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turls Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 You say you adjust for whatever "typical level" is. In my house, nothing is ever quite typical. Kids want to play water hose tag, would that be considered "typical" of flow or a "leak"? How about errors of omission then? You say no falses for 3 years but do you go around and test for positive trigger? To each his own but for some, that pipe size brick wall is not going away.If kids play water hose tag, take a bath/shower, etc for more than 30 minutes yes it triggers. I was talking about the fact most houses have some kind of flow going on even if its just background noise from being connected to the municipal water system. That's what you adjust flow rate for. For anything else, it knows if water is running for X consecutive seconds/minutes, and if it goes past that its going to shut off. I'm not saying it hasn't had a false trigger from people taking two showers that overlap and you go over 30 minutes (this time is adjustable though). But the alternative would be to let an actual leak go on for more than 30 minutes unnoticed so I live with it.When my alarm is armed away, the time is much less, probably 30 seconds. You can also set it to let that last load of laundry finish with a delay after the "away" mode is triggered.I haven't need to test for positive triggers because I've had actual incidents. Leaky hoses and burst hoses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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