thecodeman Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Ask around? Where are you located? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmk709 Posted February 5, 2009 Author Share Posted February 5, 2009 I am located in Des Moines, IA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Does anyone know anyting about this company?www.coloradovnet.comThe floorplan-based software is interesting.ByronThe funny thing is, they tout it as the only floorplan-based setup, but Phast was doing floorplan-based setups 10 years ago, and the founders of Phast decided against making ComposerPro be floorplan-based...It looks like a step *backwards* to me...RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecodeman Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I dunno, I like the way Composer is based. Easier for me to follow than drawings sometimes anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Another different thing about Colorado VNet. It looks like things like weather on your touchpanels requires you to purchase an additional *hardware* module. They have hardware "weather modules" that support displaying the weather on 1, 5, 10, or 40 touchpanels.If you want weather on a Control4 system, you pull in the WeatherBug driver, which is *software*. No additional cost, and it'll work on as many touchpanels as you want.http://www.electronichouse.com/article/colorado_vnet_has_your_weather_forecast/C96Their IP Camera support is also a hardware module. Up to 40 touchscreens... The HVAC Control... You guessed it, another module.http://www.coloradovnet.com/app/cctv/cctv_modules.railsAnd the modules *don't include the hardware*... That is, to control an IP Camera, you need an IP Camera module, *and* the IP Camera. To control an aprilaire system, you need the HVAC control module... and the Aprilaire thermostats.In Control4-land, you don't need additional modules to talk to as many IP Cameras as you want, on as many touchpanels as you want, to get Weather Forecasts, to communicate with Aprilaire thermostats, etc. (the last one, as long as you have a free serial port somewhere in the system).RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmk709 Posted February 6, 2009 Author Share Posted February 6, 2009 Ryan,I agree that the VNet system does not have all that Control4 does out of the box. However, it gives the user the ability to update IR codes. So, you do not have to give your dealer a call to add a new flat screen or new receiver. That is a big plus to me! I am not saying I am sold. That is just a big plus. VNet is not far behind Control4. That is especially true if the company has only been around 2 years. They may catch up quick or be the type of company that makes automation in the home a common item. I know that my builder is going to start pushing the product to market high efficient homes and become a dealer as well in Des moines, IA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 http://www.coloradovnet.com/news/about.aspx -- Founded in 2002http://control4.com/company/press/2004-09-09-launch.htm -- Founded in 2003Hmmm...Actually, I don't know all that much about them, other than what I've seen at shows, and that's not much. They don't seem to be as 'automation-centric' as Control4. That is, they do Canned Lighting and Music very well, and their touchpanels are nice, but I don't think you have anywhere near the level of control as you do with a Control4 system.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul_Quadriom Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I nearly posted a question about Colorado Vnet. I already have 3 proposals for Control4 and I was ready to pull the trigger.I stumbled into Colorado VNet at AVS Forum. They are a IP based audio/video based distribution company. They are somewhat similar to Netstreams.They are new and their prices are lower than NetStreams. I do have the pricing information.7 Inch LCD Touch Screen : $1390 : These ship with very basic remotes.250 GB AS2-400 Audio Server with 3 Streams: $1500500 GB AS2-800 : $3200Video Network Player with 1 TB disk: $3999 It does store and distribute bluray 7.1 audioVideo Network Player with 2 TB disk: $4999Video Player : $2199 It hooks up with the Video Network player and can also play local bluray moviesSingle tuner: $900Dual Tuner: $1600IPOD: $500Encoder allows you to hook up existing equipment to like cd player etc to the house system. Price is $470Drawbacks:Video distribution strategy is OK but not great. First you have to buy $3999 network player, next you have to buy a player for $2199 or you will have to buy the Video matrix and the network player. This will only allow 1 stream. So the only way to watch 2 movies at once is to have both Network/Server and server player.Audio Server cannot read music from network share, they may add it in future but it is not there yet. Audio server cannot show the artist metadata on the TV screen. For that you need Video Server which does both audio and video.Touch Panels are nice but they only come in one size.There is no central amp so Touch Panels have 70 watt built in amps. I am not sure they have enough power. Control 4 has 120 watts.There is no wireless touch panel or good remote.You will have to get a RTI or another remote.There is not much integration with local home theater without buying RTI/Logitech remote.Still new and small company.I have been told that a lot of new announcements are coming with new smaller and touch panels and other new products.I was looking for a 5 zones plus 2 local home theaters. The price of this system for Control 4 install was around $12500. This was with just 2 7 inch touch panels, 1 mini and 2 lcd keypads.For the price I can get a video/audio (bluray) distribution system from Colorado vnet. This system included five 7 inch touch panels. The install cost if the wiring in place was only for 6 hours of work total.I haven't made my mind yet. I like the architectures and potential of Colorado vNet but at present I feel Control4 has a more complete solution.I know this email is long but I hope I can save you guys some time with the research I did.I looked into becoming a CVnet dealer and havent decided yet as they were laying off a lot of people last year, not a good sign.Also, is it me or did everyone miss the fact that you need 1 touchscreen PER audio zone? Oh and it's 35W/channel, so this is less then C4's V3 amps at around 39W/channel (x 16 not 2). Hey Kevin, don't you have 16 zones + installs? you should sell CVnet, you'd be rich(er) So, how can you get such a low quote for all those zones is beyond me. Also, not sure where you got you prices but this looks more like the dealer costs (I have a list that dates from last Feb)Again, I have nothing against CVnet, their Touchscreens are as sexy as hell and their system look solid but keep doing your homework on specs and prices cos you're in for a big surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digital Vision Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Why not? Why wouldnt they come in and branch off your existing network using a second router and switch after verifying all the cables pass spec?That is bad networking. You do not want 2 routers running on the same network (in a residential, small network that does not have disparate paths to the Internet, etc). The ideal solution would be to have a business-class switch and router that supports VLAN's (Virtual Local Area Networks). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecodeman Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Why not? Why wouldnt they come in and branch off your existing network using a second router and switch after verifying all the cables pass spec?That is bad networking. You do not want 2 routers running on the same network (in a residential, small network that does not have disparate paths to the Internet, etc). The ideal solution would be to have a business-class switch and router that supports VLAN's (Virtual Local Area Networks).Let me say that in my mind, that's what I was thinking but my fingers did not post. Good call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hehateme Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Paul,Just Audio Distribution5 Audio Zones at $1400 = $70001 Audio Server AS2-400 = $1500Single Tuner = $900IPOD = $500Install = $330Total Cost = $10230Audio/Video DistributionReplace AS2-400 with Video Network Player so Add $2500 to previous total to get $12730I mentioned 70 Watts for touch panel and you mentioned 35 Watts per channel. I say tomato and you say tomaato Check out the prices in this article http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/audiovideo/2214/colorado-vnet-vibe-audio-distribution-system-page3.htmlI know that this article is old the prices are close. If you tell me that these are dealer prices that this makes it a better deal.I don' t know if you know this that Control4 also did layoff last year. Most technology companies are doing layoffs.I agree that a company that is not on solid financial ground is not the best place to spend money and put holes in my drywall.There is 95% chance that I will go with Control4. There is a small chance that I will go with something like Crestron Adagio.vNet looked like an interesting alternative but they don't have the features I am looking for and current economic conditions make it difficult for small companies to move fast enough to provide new features. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Control4's v.3 amp will give you much more than 39 watts/channel if not all of the zones are calling for audio at the same time. The vNet touchpanel will give you 35 watts/channel maximum.Control4's layoffs were around 10%, nearly none from core engineering... vNet's were more like 25-30%, with engineering hit as well.And as Paul pointed out, with vNet, you need a touchpanel per zone, where with Control4, you can control it with anything from an additional remote, to an LCD Keypad, through to touchpanels, etc. Much more flexibility.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hehateme Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 RyanEThanks for taking the time to reply and provide this information. vNet is not suitable for a mid to large size install. Lack of remotes, less power, no integration with TV, small market share, lack of Touch Panel, keypad choices and lack of dealers are a few reason to not choose vNet. Right now in terms of price, features and value there is nothing that even comes close to Control4. I am meeting the Third dealer on Monday and will proceed with my install shortly afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul_Quadriom Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 hehateme, I'm not saying it's bad product, don't get me wrong, but you're more limited when it comes to zone control. This is a one zone- one control type of system, just like Russound. I may be mistaken but the only thing you can do from a touchscreen in other zones is an all on and all off (party on and off). If you're ok with these limitations, then this may be a good solution for you.Having one centralized amp that does the switching for me is a no brainer. And yes, 39 W/ch is when they're all used, but a lot more if you only use one zone.For me, it's all about control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I also would not say it's a bad product. If you were *only* going to do audio and lighting, and you wanted a very integrated solution, it's very slick.Unfortunately, the level of control you have with it appears to be even less than you have with Control4 and ComposerHE. It appears you can't do ad hoc programming on the system, just predefined macros, etc.Still, probably a nice system for certain setups.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infojunkie Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 This system looks very elegant and complete. I think the interface looks Amazing! If it were available in the UK and the vendor was a little more established, then I'd seriously consider this. The touchscreens are better looking than most I have seen on the market at a similar price range and many that cost far more. Seems the launched at a bad time. http://www.cepro.com/article/colorado_vnet_retrenches_despite_record_orders/With high costs systems like this and times like these I think that many who are going to invest in such equipment are going to look for established players to make sure that they are still there in time to come when replacement parts and upgrades are necessary. Tough times for a new starter in the market. I hope they make it though as this system looks like it has a LOT of potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Yes, except it is limited to only doing automation supported by it's "modules". That is, if there isn't an existing option for a certain software "module", you can't do it. You want something to happen when both your garage doors close at night? Nope.That is, there's no 'ad-hoc' programming available. For example, if you want to do something that their music system doesn't have as a preset option, you can't do it. I asked this on their equivalent of public forums a while back, and was told it was not possible.What I asked if it could do is: When my alarm system is shut off, or my garage door closes, can I start music playing on the music system? Shocking that the answer was "no, maybe sometime in the future".That rules it out as an "automation system", as far as I'm concerned, no matter how pretty (and expensive) their touchscreens are.Also, another thing I thought was a little off, if you want to add access to a security system in vNet, you purchase a 'security system module'. That module costs based on the number of touchscreens you want to be able to access it with. The pricing model was a little screwy that way. With Control4, you can add it, if the driver exists, at no additional cost (no matter how many touchscreens you are supporting), assuming you have a free serial port.RyanEDisclaimer: I am NOT a vNet expert. I work for Control4, so obviously I'm biased. I asked on their public forums because I didn't know much about the system, and was curious.Edited to add: Also, their public forums are pretty dead. There are days I wish *this* one was that dead... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infojunkie Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Yes, except it is limited to only doing automation supported by it's "modules". That is, if there isn't an existing option for a certain software "module", you can't do it. You want something to happen when both your garage doors close at night? Nope.That is, there's no 'ad-hoc' programming available. For example, if you want to do something that their music system doesn't have as a preset option, you can't do it. I asked this on their equivalent of public forums a while back, and was told it was not possible.RyanE.....To be fair any HA system's integration is only going to be as good as the vendor's commitment to support communication with 3rd party hardware. Granted vNet may be more constrained than others and limits its application for the time being. I'd never even heard of the system until I read this thread. Still "looks" better than almost anything else I've seen in my research to date. Looks never heart Apple and their closed system. Not doing Sooloos much harm either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdvr Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Yeah but I have heard that a certain HA company, will be introducing a flash based navigator that will really increase the WOW factor.Can't remember their name thoughBrent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infojunkie Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Yeah but I have heard that a certain HA company, will be introducing a flash based navigator that will really increase the WOW factor.Can't remember their name thoughBrentIf it is the same company I heard about, then I think they should spend some of that R&D on the casing materials too. Their user interface looks pretty good at the moment. WOW would be even better I'm sure. Will not solve the cheap plastic look of some of the components though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 The communication I'm talking about is not "with some 3rd party", it's with their OWN gear.The lighting and music example is using *their* lighting and *their* music solution. Can't start their music when their lights are turned on.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infojunkie Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 That sounds like a serious limitation and if still the case very good reason not to choose the platform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 If you can live within the limitations, it may still be a good platform, especially for lighting, and if you wait it out, they'll probably resolve those issues.I think the *big* difference is that Control4 was founded by 3 people who had already started a Home Automation company together (and 2 other companies), and IMHO Control4 got the architecture right, which is a difficult thing to do the first time around. Control4's driver architecture and programming model are pretty mature because of that, and Control4's limitations are usually because of that architecture.The biggest limitation currently is that the UI on a Control4 system is a 'canned UI'. This is also one of it's benefits. It means that dealers setting up the system don't have to design touchpanel pages to control devices, they 'just work'. The downside to that is that they can't design a custom UI for each client, and the configurability of that UI at times is lacking.Of course, that's a known issue, and also is something Control4 is working towards addressing.Good luck with your choice.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infojunkie Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Interesting. Certainly tempted to wait until after the next Cedia to see what will be announced. Is that when Control4 normally announces anything new - and I don;t expect you to say what, just whether that is a good place to aim to look for any news. As I don't intend installing until October I guess I have the luxary of waiting either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecodeman Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 CEDIA / CES are the two shows that C4 goes to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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