Pricing Question...

[maxipad]

Hello all-

This is my first post on the forum. I recently had my entire house hooked up to control4 with the exception of most of the lights. All A/V and HVAC are hooked into the control4 system. I've waited a month or so and now I would like to get the rest of my lights tied in with the system as well as couple more touch screens.

The reason for this post is because I think my dealer/installer is charging me too much for the job. Here is a list of what I asked for followed by his price (including labor):

25 Wireless dimmers

1 Table top wireless touch screen 7"

1 Mini wireless in wall touch screen

This job will not require any additional wiring and the system is already set up to accept the additional hardware.

His first bid was $8,500 and now his best and final bid is $7,200.

What do you think of this #?

Thanks in advance for any advice given

-Max

[thecodeman]

Hello all-

This is my first post on the forum. I recently had my entire house hooked up to control4 with the exception of most of the lights. All A/V and HVAC are hooked into the control4 system. I've waited a month or so and now I would like to get the rest of my lights tied in with the system as well as couple more touch screens.

The reason for this post is because I think my dealer/installer is charging me too much for the job. Here is a list of what I asked for followed by his price (including labor):

25 Wireless dimmers

1 Table top wireless touch screen 7"

1 Mini wireless in wall touch screen

This job will not require any additional wiring and the system is already set up to accept the additional hardware.

His first bid was $8,500 and now his best and final bid is $7,200.

What do you think of this #?

Thanks in advance for any advice given

-Max

Sounds like MSRP and two 8 hour days? Sounds a little slow. http://www.c4forums.com/viewtopic.php?pid=26293#p26293

Of course it depends on your area and a couple of other things so it all depends. Might shop the price you may find it's par for the course or get a better deal.

[maxipad]

Thanks for the input!

I live in the Los Angeles area and this is an A/V team of 3ppl that I have used numerous times and have given many referrals to. 25 wireless dimmers and 2 wireless touch screens should not take 2 8-hour days for 3 people to complete.

[thecodeman]

Thanks for the input!

I live in the Los Angeles area and this is an A/V team of 3ppl that I have used numerous times and have given many referrals to. 25 wireless dimmers and 2 wireless touch screens should not take 2 8-hour days for 3 people to complete.

I just guessed at rough MSRP on the devices, then subtracted that from the lowest bid. The difference I divided by 125/hour... not exact by any means as everyone's rates and prices vary...

[jberger]

Sounds fair to me.

It's high voltage electrical work, so you've got to figure that labor into the project. Call a local electrician and ask how much they will charge to install 25 dimmers, it will surprise you.

Add in programming scenes, possibly updating the system to the latest current version, and working out any zigbee issues and it's reasonable and probably discounted a fair amount.

[tigrzeye]

Was there any programming time needed for additional lighting scenes? Any LED color scheme changes? Double Taps? Time scheduled lighting scenes? Etc.

Just a thought.. eh?

[maxipad]

No additional programming needed. I have composer HE and I can tweak all of that stuff. There is no electrical work needed. It has already been done. The software is up to date as my system is only one month old.

[jberger]

It's still high voltage electrical work, even if it's not pulling new wires, as it will be an R&R on the wall switches. It will require a licensed electrician to perform the servicing.

Any 3 way switch locations will need to be converted over and wired accordingly.

They will be doing base programming at a minimum since you can just stick the dimmer in the wall and leave without adding it to composer, updating the firmware, etc. You can't do that in HE and the dealer will want to ensure his work is functional before turning it over to you, especially if you are going to "DIY" after he leaves.

The price is right on this one, based on the qty's and time needed.

It's common for homeowners to think of the costs in terms of everything being ready and the job going smoothly, but that's just not how things happen.

Example,

You find out there are neutrals clipped in the very back of the box so everything needs a new pigtail, the electrician wired the stairwells at the fixture, not the box, because the steps were not in place when they hung the temp lights so you need to retro a wire, a dimmer was defective out of the box so you need a second truck run to replace it, zigbee is a mess and needs a repeater, etc.

It's not just a list of parts and cheap labor, it's a system that has to be installed, programmed and warrantied. You want the dealer to make a profit so they can be in business to serve you down the road. If they sell everything at cost, and give away the labor, they will not be there when you have a problem, need something repaired or replaced, etc. They are not ripping you off on the price, it's very reasonable.

Fixed pricing requires some room for errors, delays and defects, but it also helps keep you protected and gives you a known price to work with.

If you want to lower the risk for the installer, then suggest T&M billing and be prepared when things don't go as planned and it costs more than you expect.

[TGannon]

I know it is almost sacrilege on here, however in some places you do not need a licensed electrician to perform high voltage work.

In the city I live in, homeowners are allowed to do their own wiring provided they pass a test when they pull the electrical permit. This is what I did when I built out my basement. When I switched out all of my regular switches to C4 dimmers and a keypad, I just did it myself. I have a small system, eight dimmers and a six button, but installing all of them, including a three-way using the six button, only took about and hour and a half.

When my dealer came out to program, everything was installed and waiting for him.

[RyanE]

Yes, in some jurisdictions, homeowners are allowed to do their own electrical work with no license. I wired my entire home, high and low voltage, as I did my last home.

However, the original poster did not state that he was going to install the dimmers/switches himself as the homeowner, so I don't think this necessarily applies in his case.

If someone other than the homeowner was to install the dimmers/switches, they would still be required to be licensed, and/or use a licensed electrician to install them.

RyanE

[jberger]

I'm working on a project right now where the homeowner is performing all of the electrical work on the build.

He did have to pass the test and get a wavier from the inspector, but he is able to perform the work himself.

The OP has a listed location of LA and didn't mention doing the work himself, thus I assume he will need a licensed sparky for that portion of the work.

[fatboy]

Any homeowner is allowed to do electrical work themselves with what is called a homeowners permit. It can be pulled for any trade except gas (in Canada).