stevemcd Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Anyone having a problem with Audio Delay between different zones?I have cycled power on everything (HC500, Denon AVR, and 2 speaker points) with the same results...I can add the zone fine however, the delay is bad....about 1-2 seconds ...[edit] forgot to mention that this is digital audio - either my stored music libraries on HC-500 or Rhapsody streaming...ThanksSteve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 What is the audio source, and what are the two zones' outputs?i.e. is one of them coming from an analog source from an audio switch, and the other from a SpeakerPoint?RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebery Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Speaker point are more than likely the problem. I had to replace mine with baluns and add an amp at the endpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevemcd Posted December 28, 2009 Author Share Posted December 28, 2009 Thanks for the replies - The Audio source is 1) Stored mp3 music on HC-500 to Denon AVR which drives a set of speakers2) streamed Rhapsody music streaming from Internet thru the HC-500 to the Denon AVR which drives the same speakers as 1 aboveThe above is both digital audio music The output is to above 1 or 2 (thru the Denon AVR) or thru two speaker points I have wirelessly connected to the HC-500 (thru a Linksys router)Is there a way to place a small delay in one of these to help sync it up?ThanksSteve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecodeman Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 The denon might have the delay options, under lip sync or something like that. The issue is with the speakerpoints and the denons and how they process the audio (network-amp) and the denon goes straight from the controller and doesnt have to be encoded across the network. Ways you can fix it are putting all the audio on speakerpoints, all on a multizone amp like the 4 zone or 8 zone amp, or having receivers at each location like tebery did. That extra step of encoding/decoding on the network adds just enough delay for you to notice in a situation like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevemcd Posted December 28, 2009 Author Share Posted December 28, 2009 The denon might have the delay options, under lip sync or something like that. The issue is with the speakerpoints and the denons and how they process the audio (network-amp) and the denon goes straight from the controller and doesnt have to be encoded across the network. Ways you can fix it are putting all the audio on speakerpoints, all on a multizone amp like the 4 zone or 8 zone amp, or having receivers at each location like tebery did. That extra step of encoding/decoding on the network adds just enough delay for you to notice in a situation like this.Cody - Thanks for the input.. I will check the Denon AVR to see if I can delay certain zones...I am not sure what you say is exactly right however, - I can start the digital music in my main zone (Zone 1) which does not go thru the speaker point - then add another room (or zone) to that which also does not go thru the speaker point... Both of these zones are just wired to the Denon AVR amp with the input from the HC-500 - I get delay with these two zones also - and not going thru the speaker point or any network...Thanks !Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecodeman Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Cody - Thanks for the input.. I will check the Denon AVR to see if I can delay certain zones...I am not sure what you say is exactly right however, - I can start the digital music in my main zone (Zone 1) which does not go thru the speaker point - then add another room (or zone) to that which also does not go thru the speaker point... Both of these zones are just wired to the Denon AVR amp with the input from the HC-500 - I get delay with these two zones also - and not going thru the speaker point or any network...Thanks !SteveBoth zones coming to the denon (say output 500 1 - input denon 1 - zone one and output 500 2 - input 2 denon - zone 2) ?I'm betting Control4 treats those as "independent outputs", so the DAC is happening twice, once for both outputs.Best way to do it, since you're listening to the same music in these zones anyway or you wouldnt be complaining of delay ( ) is to use a single output from the controller, fed to a multizone amp or the Denon.I overcame this with many speakerpoints at one job by feeding the single output from the controller into an audio matrix switch, which then fed the analog audio to the speakerpoints (they were centralized in the rack, it was a "cheating" way to get a multizone setup for cheaper than a 8 zone at the time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevemcd Posted December 29, 2009 Author Share Posted December 29, 2009 Cody - Thanks for the input.. I will check the Denon AVR to see if I can delay certain zones...I am not sure what you say is exactly right however' date=' - I can start the digital music in my main zone (Zone 1) which does not go thru the speaker point - then add another room (or zone) to that which also does not go thru the speaker point... Both of these zones are just wired to the Denon AVR amp with the input from the HC-500 - I get delay with these two zones also - and not going thru the speaker point or any network...Thanks !Steve[/quote']Both zones coming to the denon (say output 500 1 - input denon 1 - zone one and output 500 2 - input 2 denon - zone 2) ?I'm betting Control4 treats those as "independent outputs", so the DAC is happening twice, once for both outputs.Best way to do it, since you're listening to the same music in these zones anyway or you wouldnt be complaining of delay ( ) is to use a single output from the controller, fed to a multizone amp or the Denon.I overcame this with many speakerpoints at one job by feeding the single output from the controller into an audio matrix switch, which then fed the analog audio to the speakerpoints (they were centralized in the rack, it was a "cheating" way to get a multizone setup for cheaper than a 8 zone at the time).Sorry to keep this going....I only have one output from the HC500 (Audio output 2) to the Denon (Multizone amp). I am wondering if this could be caused by system 1.7.4.36 changes? I do not remember that the older version (1.7.3.68) had this issue..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecodeman Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Hmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevemcd Posted December 29, 2009 Author Share Posted December 29, 2009 Is there a way to go back in a system update to an older version - that way I can see if the latest version caused the issue described... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecodeman Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 There is, if we USB restore everything in the project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanmark Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Sorry to keep this going....I only have one output from the HC500 (Audio output 2) to the Denon (Multizone amp). I am wondering if this could be caused by system 1.7.4.36 changes? I do not remember that the older version (1.7.3.68) had this issue.....Hey stevemcd, which model of Denon AVR do you have? I had a similar problem with audio delays using the multizone feature of a new Denon (AVR-2310CI) and the audio delays continued after adding a C4 amp. So, I asked about it in a Denon forum and the recommendations were: * Select analog connections/sources* Select "Direct" or "Pure Direct" (IE: no Audyssey, no DSP)That eliminated the audio delay problem for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecodeman Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Sorry to keep this going....I only have one output from the HC500 (Audio output 2) to the Denon (Multizone amp). I am wondering if this could be caused by system 1.7.4.36 changes? I do not remember that the older version (1.7.3.68) had this issue.....Hey stevemcd' date=' which model of Denon AVR do you have? I had a similar problem with audio delays using the multizone feature of a new Denon (AVR-2310CI) and the audio delays continued after adding a C4 amp. So, I asked about it in a Denon forum and the recommendations were: * Select analog connections/sources* Select "Direct" or "Pure Direct" (IE: no Audyssey, no DSP)That eliminated the audio delay problem for me.[/quote']Good suggestion. Post-processing can add delays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevemcd Posted December 29, 2009 Author Share Posted December 29, 2009 Sorry to keep this going....I only have one output from the HC500 (Audio output 2) to the Denon (Multizone amp). I am wondering if this could be caused by system 1.7.4.36 changes? I do not remember that the older version (1.7.3.68) had this issue.....Hey stevemcd' date=' which model of Denon AVR do you have? I had a similar problem with audio delays using the multizone feature of a new Denon (AVR-2310CI) and the audio delays continued after adding a C4 amp. So, I asked about it in a Denon forum and the recommendations were: * Select analog connections/sources* Select "Direct" or "Pure Direct" (IE: no Audyssey, no DSP)That eliminated the audio delay problem for me.[/quote']Good suggestion. I have a Denon AVR 4308. Love the unit. And I have Audyssey turned on. So I can turn it off to see if it helps...My only point was that I do not remember the Audio Delay - unless I just did not notice it (but it is rather noticeable) and I had Audyssey on, etc.My change recently is to update to the 1.74 version of Controller s/w.. So I was just trying to see if that might have done it.... (as part of the AudioServer update by C4)....But I can try the Denon settings and provide some feedback.Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanmark Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 I hear ya... love the Denon, love the Audyssey room calibration, but the audio delay between zones was unbearable. (Also, I did have to add analog connections to completely eliminate the delay). My system is now programmed to switch the Denon to "Direct" mode and "Analog" source when adjoining zones are in use and then back to "Audyssey" and "Auto" source when adjoining zones are off. Hope it works for you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevemcd Posted December 31, 2009 Author Share Posted December 31, 2009 I hear ya... love the Denon, love the Audyssey room calibration, but the audio delay between zones was unbearable. (Also, I did have to add analog connections to completely eliminate the delay). My system is now programmed to switch the Denon to "Direct" mode and "Analog" source when adjoining zones are in use and then back to "Audyssey" and "Auto" source when adjoining zones are off. Hope it works for you...Well thanks to Urbanmark suggestion it worked.I have two zone that are right next to each other so the delay was really noticeable when playing digital music from my Denon. - Turned the Direct mode and it is now in sync. (still did not notice before however, but oh well)....I have two other zones which are connected to the Speaker Points and streaming thru Wi-Fi connection. These will not sync with the two mentioned above and still have the delay - it is probably due to the Network on these two zones... So do not think there is much to do here... Unless anyone has any other good suggestions...Thanks ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecodeman Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Glad you got it working better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 I hear ya... love the Denon' date=' love the Audyssey room calibration, but the audio delay between zones was unbearable. (Also, I did have to add analog connections to completely eliminate the delay). My system is now programmed to switch the Denon to "Direct" mode and "Analog" source when adjoining zones are in use and then back to "Audyssey" and "Auto" source when adjoining zones are off. Hope it works for you...[/quote']Well thanks to Urbanmark suggestion it worked.I have two zone that are right next to each other so the delay was really noticeable when playing digital music from my Denon. - Turned the Direct mode and it is now in sync. (still did not notice before however, but oh well)....I have two other zones which are connected to the Speaker Points and streaming thru Wi-Fi connection. These will not sync with the two mentioned above and still have the delay - it is probably due to the Network on these two zones... So do not think there is much to do here... Unless anyone has any other good suggestions...Thanks !The speakerpoints are always going to have a little bit of a delay, because it is broadcast over the wireless network. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanCB Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 Not true, speakerpoints are able to be hardwired as well. And with network steaming control4 use's ntp to keep all streams in sync. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Even over an ethernet network, a Speakerpoint will be delayed behind sources that are direct wired to an amplifier then to speakers, because the audio has to be digitized, put on the network, and decoded on the far end by the Speakerpoint.I think that was the point that ILoveC4 was trying to make, not that multiple SpeakerPoint devices would necessarily be out of sync with one another.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanCB Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 True, just wanted to make sure that with the understanding that all speakerpoints would be in sync with a streamed source. Also in local amp mode using say an audio matrix they would be in sync though with an amplifier or I should say thats how its working in my house off of my autopatch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevemcd Posted January 10, 2010 Author Share Posted January 10, 2010 Thanks for everyones help. In my case I did not have the Speaker points hardwired but it was over a 802.11 wireless network. But with the info above all works ok now...ThanksSteve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcoxferris Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 I have a similar problem but I do have 2 HTC's hard wired into a Niles 1200 Amp and a HTC hard wired into a Pioneer Reciever. I understand that the Reciever is going to be delayed due to the network but the HTC's that are all plugged into the amp are also delayed about 1 to 2 seconds any ideas how to get them in sync. 2 of the zones are from the same HTC Audio 1 Out and Audio 2 Out and they are not in sync. This seemed to happen after a power outage.Sorry for the run ons and thanks for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 What Control4 version are you on?So you're saying they *were* in sync, and now they're not? If it's on the Control4 side, they should sync back up over time.The other alternative is that during the power outage, maybe one of your receivers' settings got changed, so there is a delay on that side of things.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcoxferris Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 I am on 1.7.4 and my reciever is very old and I don't think it has any processing. I was able to get it back to sync up I just re booted my controllers at the same time and they were back on.Thanks for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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