Brand New HC300 C4 system with 2.10...slow?

[slySTANGguy]

Hello,

I am a long time reader and first time poster in these forums. I just purchased an HC300, C4 thermostat, and Ipad to better control my home.

Let me tell you about my hardware, then I will tell you about the problems/issues/concerns I have with the system.

I have three zones:

Media Room/Theater:

New Equipment: HC300

Current Equipment: Pioneer SC-35 reciever, TV, 5.1 speaker setup (powered by pioneer sc-35), cable box, ps3, blueray

Control Method: SR250 Remote, Pioneer SC-35 - serial from HC300...audio out 2 from HC300, everything else - IR control from HC300

Kitchen

New Equipment: C4 App

Current Equipment: 2 tower speakers (powered by pioneer sc-35 in media room/theater), Apple Extreme Router

Control: IPAD with c4 app

Patio

New Equipment: C4 App

Current Equipment: Denon 2308CI, 2 outdoor speakers (powered by Denon2308CI)

Control: Ipad with C4 App, denon2308 - serial cable from HC300....audio out 1 from HC300

Here are the problems:

Volume in Media Room and Kitchen

The volume for media room (controlled my sr250 remote) is slow to respond when I do a long button press with volume button. The system has a delay when I do a long press on the volume button and once the volume starts to change the ramp rate is very slow (it takes a while to get from -30db to -15db). The volume in the kitchen is the same way, but all I can do is long presses with the IPAD. The volume used to respond entirely too fast for the kitchen when using the IPAD app for control, though the SR250 control was manageable. My dealer fixed the volume control with the IPAD by increasing the delay and slowing down the ramp rate of the volume. Before he made this change the volume was too hard to control with the IPAD, it would go from too quiet to dangerously loud way too fast. He told me that the kitchen (zone 2 of the pioneer reciever) and the media room (zone 1 of the pioneer reciever) share the same volume control specifications.

Another problem which has happened, but happens rarely, is when the media room volume changes randomly because I turned on the kitchen zone. For instance the girl friend will be watching cable telivision in the media room (using zone 1 of the pioneer receiver) and I will turn on kitchen music (zone 2 of the pioneer reciever with rhapsody) and then the volume will randomly start changing for the girlfriend currently watching cable telivision (zone 1 of the pioneer receiver). Any reason this is happening?

IPAD C4 App problems

The IPAD C4 app for the most part works fine. My dealer was concerned because I am using both serial out ports and audio out ports to listen to music in the kitchen and patio. The app will display odd graphics for each of the albums and I will be unable to click on the album. Or the app will display the same album 20 times. Or the app wont really do anything as if my media hard drive and rhapsody were suddenly disconnected.

set tv to HDMI1

My tv has only one cable going to it, that is the HDMI cable between the reciever and the tv. That input of the tv is always set to HDMI1 and has no reason to change. I end up having to wait an extra couple of seconds each time I turn the tv on because the tv is told to go to HDMI1 as part of the macro. When the tv is told to change to HDMI1 the reciever has to reprocess the audio/visual outs and the sound and video or momentarily paused while it is thinking. If the TV was not set to HDMI1 every time the command "watch cable" was sent, then I could avoid this momentarily pause while the receiver is thinking. My dealer says he cannot remove this, as it would cause more problems.

Thank you everyone for reading this long post. I could have split this up into many but I wanted to be efficient:)

Cheers,

Rob

[ILoveC4]

"Zone 2" is often problematic, I've never used it based on horror stories (much like this one). Some people claim to use it successfully...I'm not one of them.

With regard to the HDMI1, your dealer can change that, but for some reason he doesn't want to. Either he doesn't know how, he's lazy, or there is more going on that what you're telling us with regard to inputs/outputs.

[ILoveC4]

Oh yeah, do you really have 2.1? If so, that could be your problem....that's still in beta testing.

[slySTANGguy]

Yes I do have 2.1, my dealer gave me 2.1 because he said it should make my system run faster. He says that on screen GUI takes up less processing power and the rest of the system has more resources for all of their functions.

What is the point of having two zone capability on the reciever if it is only a good idea to use with a system like control4, but when you use the second zone it has issues.

Does anyone have experience using the pioneer elite receiver drivers?

[jwhitaker@revit]

Zone 2 can work if programmed and set up correctly. 2.1 should be a definite No No right now especially since it is still in beta. Using it in new installations may actually be a breach of the beta NDA. You have several areas to look at as far as issues. Also although 2.1 has benefits to make the system run faster, if that dealer has not been using it long enough to understand the in's and out's it can actually be worse.

[smccray]

I use zone 2 on my pioneer elite receiver and it works okay. It turns on and off independently, but the mute function doesn't work correctly and the volume up/down with programming doesn't work correctly. On the driver I'm using the vol up and down commands in composer manipulate zone 1 not zone 2, so I use the emit code function instead of vol up to control the zone 2 volume with a wall switch. I've also given up on the mute function, but the zone 2 is only used occasionally.

[jwhitaker@revit]

The Pioneer receiver drivers can be setup to run correctly with full independent commands for each zone.

[slySTANGguy]

The Pioneer receiver drivers can be setup to run correctly with full independent commands for each zone.

I am glad this is true, is it possible for you to get me some more instructions on how this is done. The only reason I would like this is so I can force my dealer to make my life with volume easier.

Thank you!

The mute works out fine with my system for the SC35.

[ILoveC4]

The Pioneer receiver drivers can be setup to run correctly with full independent commands for each zone.

I am glad this is true' date=' is it possible for you to get me some more instructions on how this is done. The only reason I would like this is so I can force my dealer to make my life with volume easier.

Thank you!

The mute works out fine with my system for the SC35.[/quote']

Please email me the name of your dealer. I'd love to give 2.1 a try.

[pstuart]

me too I think you better hurry, might not have access to it for long... Just a hunch...

[JV]

I have zone 2 working perfectly on a Denon receiver and it's IR so your dealer should be able to fix this.

One thing you can do is tell your dealer to take the HDMI-1 command out of the macro and add the HDMI-1 command to one of the colored buttons so if the input ever gets changed all you have to do is hit the RED button.

[Garp]

Ya what dealer?

[slySTANGguy]

I am using DHDpros (digital home design pros) for my dealership. They are in Columbus, Ohio. DHDpros.com is the website I think. A google search should find them.

[JP Rizal]

I am using DHDpros (digital home design pros) for my dealership. They are in Columbus, Ohio. DHDpros.com is the website I think. A google search should find them.

I guess you are not too happy with them right now, enough to get them in trouble. My experience with them has been very positive though. They go over backwards for their customer.

[DHD MATT]

Hey Rob and everyone else. We installed the Rob's system. We decided to update to 2.1 to resolve a couple of ongoing issues (which it did). We explained it is a beta version, and Rob was understanding of potential issues not being a public release yet. We also asked Rob to give us feedback which he did.

@ILoveC4 We did not take out the macro to switch to the HDMI input because if/when the TV changes input, Control4 will have no way of automatically switching back. We try and avoid service calls before they happen. We are not "lazy". That being said, we will remove the macro if it is too much of a nuisance for Rob and explain the potential sync issues.

@Jwhitaker Yes, we have using 2.1 long enough to feel comfortable deploying it in Rob's system to help him out. As far as the zone2 set up, we've been setting up independent 2, 3, and 4 zone systems with capable surround receivers for a long time and we know what we're doing (binding zone 2 endpoints/volumes at room level and whatnot). Rob wants the 2way feedback which is why we have it controlled RS232.

@JPRizal We are not in trouble and thanks for the kind words:)

[slySTANGguy]

I am extremely happy with DHD, always bending over to help me out as well. Fantastic prices as well.

I am big supporter of group discussion, getting feedback, and finding new solutions; such as a solution for my volume control issues.

[ILoveC4]

@ILoveC4 We did not take out the macro to switch to the HDMI input because if/when the TV changes input, Control4 will have no way of automatically switching back. We try and avoid service calls before they happen. We are not "lazy". That being said, we will remove the macro if it is too much of a nuisance for Rob and explain the potential sync issues.

I didn't say you were lazy. I laid out three scenarios, and one of them was "or there is more to it that you/we don't know about".

I never said you did anything wrong.

[slySTANGguy]

I just want to clarify that DHD pros have always been a huge help for me and in no means have they done anything wrong. I resorted to asking questions on forums because I feel bad sending them multiple emails a day asking questions that I feel I should be able to find answers to myself. Nobody sends emails to their car mechanics daily about noises they are hearing, instead those should get on car forums. Hence why I am at C4 forums.

Thank you DHD for all of your help and support! My system is going to keep growing and growing and you will continue to hear from me!

[jwhitaker@revit]

@Jwhitaker Yes, we have using 2.1 long enough to feel comfortable deploying it in Rob's system to help him out. As far as the zone2 set up, we've been setting up independent 2, 3, and 4 zone systems with capable surround receivers for a long time and we know what we're doing (binding zone 2 endpoints/volumes at room level and whatnot). Rob wants the 2way feedback which is why we have it controlled RS232.

Jeez guy don't get so offensive. He never stated who his dealer was, so I was throwing you to the dogs intentionally. I do however stand behind my statement that in the Beta NDA I am pretty sure it says that beta OS's are not to be installed on client systems. Pretty sure at least, haven't looked at the NDA in years. Like I said, was not shooting bad karma your way as he never said WHO his dealer is.

But like I said before. What happens in beta stays in beta. And this is the reason for that. Since we are not supposed to talk about beta in the dealer forums outside of the private area, I am sure it is not appropriate to install a beta OS on a client system so he can talk about it on the public forums.

[jscott2727]

Unless someone can help answer Rob's question, lets move on. His system, as he has posted, entails 1 HC300. We are using a couple IR's, both serial ports, both audio outs, navigator, director, and z server. The HC300 is also managing a decent sized library of audio files stored on a networked hard drive. We all know this is too much for 1 HC300 to process. Navigator alone takes up over 50% of the processor (except on 2.1). There are 3 zones of audio being powered by two receivers. His pioneer is running a 5.1 and 2nd powered out zone. A Denon is running a third 2 channel zone. The original install was a little smaller as we had only two audio zones and were using only 1 serial connection. We notified Rob that we were pushing the limits of this 1 controller and as the third zone and second serial connection was added, that it would be beneficial to add a HC200. However, instead of doing this, we really wanted to see the true potential of 2.1 as our beta system has a HC1000 in it. Rob was gracious enough to be our guinea pig.

To the issues at hand:

The volume control from the iPad is different than that of the SR250. The iPad volume ramps much faster than the SR250. The iPad volume increases by 5 when going from -40 to -20. Then increases by 2.5 when going from -20 to -10 and then by increments of 1. The SR250 always increases/decreases by .5 increments. We are all just looking for an explanation to this.

The other issue is music stopping suddenly whether the source is from the NAS or from Rhapsody. He has mentioned some other issues above but they seem to stem from the buggy Control4 App. As Matt has mentioned, we have done powered zone 2/3/4 installs a number of times, so we know its not the setup, bindings, or programming.

Thanks.

[CFUG]

Hey Rob and everyone else. We installed the Rob's system. We decided to update to 2.1 to resolve a couple of ongoing issues (which it did). We explained it is a beta version, and Rob was understanding of potential issues not being a public release yet. We also asked Rob to give us feedback which he did.

@ILoveC4 We did not take out the macro to switch to the HDMI input because if/when the TV changes input, Control4 will have no way of automatically switching back. We try and avoid service calls before they happen. We are not "lazy". That being said, we will remove the macro if it is too much of a nuisance for Rob and explain the potential sync issues.

@Jwhitaker Yes, we have using 2.1 long enough to feel comfortable deploying it in Rob's system to help him out. As far as the zone2 set up, we've been setting up independent 2, 3, and 4 zone systems with capable surround receivers for a long time and we know what we're doing (binding zone 2 endpoints/volumes at room level and whatnot). Rob wants the 2way feedback which is why we have it controlled RS232.

@JPRizal We are not in trouble and thanks for the kind words:)

I have no idea why I brought this one back other than to defend DHD on their decision of handling input mode (HDMI 1). I do it this way and yes it takes a few seconds longer to sort-out, but it does rectify input issues if someone does change manually using the TV/AVR supplied remote. It is also necessary if one wants to run OSD on the same panel.

[matt4gps]

Since I have a SR-250, I disabled the onscreen navigator. This freed up rescources on the HC-300 and made my system faster. Upgrading to 2.1.1 was a huge jump in performance. I also took off the screen savers and backdrops on my other controlers. It also eliminates the problem of having the Denon go through switching HDMI and component for going back and forth between the C4 onscreen navigator and the Cable box (my htpc). I have a Denon 3310ci with a c4 certified driver (ip), so all 3 zones serve my 5 amp audio end points fine. Hope this helps.

Clarification: When I say 3 zones I mean audio out 3 zones ( for example Apple TV, Radio, Internet radio) I have my second set of speakers configured to my height speakers and not to zone 2.