dinosaur Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 When Control4 released Composer HE it was in an effort to satisfy the end-user who wants to have control over their system through programming. The purposeful omission of hardware deletions/additions (bindings) was made in an effort (I believe) to protect the user from his own worst enemy, himself.I have watched my dealer while he sets up the bindings or changes the bindings and they can be very simple at times but at other times, in a large complex project, they can be confusing. I'm a techie and I found some of the bindings confusing especially when I first saw them as he worked at my house.I don't think that Control4 left off the hardware bindings from Composer HE in order to insure their dealers make money. I think they did it to protect the end-user from screwing up their systems. I'm not a cynic at all.I do, however, believe that many tech savvy end-users can learn to do a good job with hardware additions/deletions with some detailed instruction and after all, we own our equipment. If we create a problem then it's our problem and we would need an expert (some dealers are experts but some are not) to fix the problem. That's where the dealers can make their post-installation profits.This topic has been kicked around on this forum over and over again. I see both sides of the argument and in the final analysis it is up to Control4 and their business model as to what they are willing to provide to the end-user as far as DIY changes to an installed system.One has to wonder, however, how many tech savvy potential users are initially interested in Control4 and then dismiss it as a viable choice because of this very issue.A non-technically savvy user would be happier to not have the ability to mess up their projects. A technically savvy user wants the ability to change, tweak, enhance their projects and my bet is that Control4 loses a certain portion of potential business because of their current model and that's a loss of profit for Control4 and their dealers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 I have a unique situation in having friends in the business, so getting something added or tweaked that is outside of the limits of Composer HE I have not incurred any costs. Aside from the day I bought my system, and hardware upgrades, I have been fortunate enough to get any programming work done free because of my relationship with the dealer.I can tell you if I had to pay for all this, and had to pay my "dealer" everytime a thought popped into my head and I wanted to discuss it with him, I would not own any Control4 equipment. Aside from the hassle I simply couldn't afford it. I am a techie and I love to tinker. If I had to pay $75 per hour (or more) for the time I spend on the phone or working with my "dealer" I would blow all discretionary income in the first week or two of the month.I feel for all you guys paying $300+ for each "service call" to add a DVD player or something. I hope you all make more money than I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecodeman Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 It's possible that there are a number of people dismissing it's capabilites as you described. As any good company should do, I would hope that they are keeping a watchful eye on it and are addressing it accordingly. However, they have the right to change or not change their preferred model of sales. So it remains to be seen. Like Neil said, we try to meet our customers in the middle as much as possible, without breaking our dealer agreements with Control4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOracle Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Along those lines, I would not have opted for C4 due to this limitation had I known about it. I was told by a C4 regional employee that I would be able to do anything to my system by myself. After the install is when I found out you don't get any software to program your system unless you purchase a 4Sight contract. I'm waiting to find out at the end of the subscription contract whether it's still functioning. Like I said, I'd never have spent any money on this system had I known this limitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 I don't believe ComposerHE is tied to 4Sight. You get a year of 4Sight with the ComposerHE license, but when 4Sight subscription ends, your copy of HE should still work fine.If your dealer upgrades your controller, he should also provide you a link to download an updated version of ComposerHE, which will work with your current license.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinosaur Posted April 28, 2009 Author Share Posted April 28, 2009 When Apple opened up the SDK for the iPhone to the world they sold tons of phones and apps and the userbase increased exponentially. Letting people tweak and customize their gear is a good thing in terms of gaining user loyalty and market share. You see that over and over again.When Apple, in the old days, wanted to protect themselves and wouldn't play nice with Microsoft, the company was a minor player. Today they are a very successful player in the market and that is in no small part due to the change in attitude about becoming compatible with PC's and open about third party intervention. Users want choice and users want customization and tech users want to get their hands inside their gear.Customer loyalty is the crux of success in the tech business. Allowing users to be involved in their systems, especially tech-savvy users, is of paramount importance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecodeman Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 On the flip side of that, though the SDK brought more apps, Apple still holds the killswitch and has final say over any app on the phone. Just saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinosaur Posted April 28, 2009 Author Share Posted April 28, 2009 On the flip side of that, though the SDK brought more apps, Apple still holds the killswitch and has final say over any app on the phone. Just saying Yes, the King always gets to say who lives and who dies but a wise and benevolent King earns the loyalty and affection of the masses if he understands their wishes and is empathetic to them.Just saying!:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecodeman Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 On the flip side of that' date=' though the SDK brought more apps, Apple still holds the killswitch and has final say over any app on the phone. Just saying [/quote']Yes, the King always gets to say who lives and who dies but a wise and benevolent King earns the loyalty and affection of the masses if he has understands their wishes and is empathetic to them.Just saying!:)Please see my other posts in regards to "I hope they do it right!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinosaur Posted April 28, 2009 Author Share Posted April 28, 2009 On the flip side of that' date=' though the SDK brought more apps, Apple still holds the killswitch and has final say over any app on the phone. Just saying [/quote']Yes, the King always gets to say who lives and who dies but a wise and benevolent King earns the loyalty and affection of the masses if he has understands their wishes and is empathetic to them.Just saying!:)Please see my other posts in regards to "I hope they do it right!" I know. I saw what you wrote. You get it and I realize that. I was just batting the ball around with you!In my book you are ALRIGHT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akg4y Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Aw how sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecodeman Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Aw how sweet.It's ok, you can come and sing Kumbaya with us around the Control4 integrated gas fireplace too .... just bring the S'mores Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinosaur Posted April 28, 2009 Author Share Posted April 28, 2009 Aw how sweet.It's ok' date=' you can come and sing Kumbaya with us around the Control4 integrated gas fireplace too .... just bring the S'mores [/quote']Forget the S'mores......."Leave the gun. Take the cannoli." - Fat Clemenza, The Godfather Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingzz Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 On the flip side of that, though the SDK brought more apps, Apple still holds the killswitch and has final say over any app on the phone. Just saying Jailbreaking takes care of that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecodeman Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 On the flip side of that' date=' though the SDK brought more apps, Apple still holds the killswitch and has final say over any app on the phone. Just saying [/quote']Jailbreaking takes care of thatI jailbroke my phone specifically for MMS. Didn't work as promised, since AT&T blocked it anyway on the network side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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