DS2 Mini and T3 Intercom Anywhere - Poor Voice Quality

[Don Cohen]

I'm on 3.1.0 with an EA-3 as my Controller.  I have a DS2 Mini at my front door, and a T3 in my Family Room.  I have a current 4Sight subscription.  Araknis 510 series Router and 2 Araknis WAP's.  WiFi is generally quite dependable.  My phone is Verizon Note 8, wife's is Verizon S8, both with Intercom Anywhere installed.

When I ring the bell at the DS2 Mini:

• If I answer with the T3, I can hear the person at the door with good voice quality.  The problem is that they can't hear me well at all.  I've been testing this, with my wife at the T3, and I'll hear the first word or two, and then it completely drops off, sporadically coming back.
• If I answer on one of our phones, the voice quality to and from the DS2 Mini is much better.
• If I call one of our phones from the T3, hearing what is said at the T3 is not good.
• If I initiate an Intercom call from my phone to my wife's, sound quality is decent both ways (other than a fair amount of lag).

Please double-check my logic here, or suggest further testing, but this all seems to suggest a problem originating with the Microphone on the T3 (about a year old).

Before pursuing getting it replaced, I want to make sure I'm not overlooking any other possibility.  And if there are other trouble-shooting steps I can take, please let me know that as well.  I have rebooted the T3 with no improvement.

Thanks.

[Don Cohen]

Any insight on this?

Thanks.

[AK1]

Is your T3 connected via Wifi?

[Don Cohen]

Yes, WiFi, with a very strong signal - shows as 100% in Composer Pro.

I double-checked and found this, a little different from what I saw above.

If I do an Intercom call between the T3 and my Android Phone, the sound is usually fine on both ends, suggesting the T3's microphone is ok.

What would cause poor voice transmission from the T3 to the DS2 Mini?

I'm on 3.1.0 and all Drivers are up to date for all of my devices.

Could a poor POE Cable Connection to the DS2 Mini cause this?  One reason I ask is that when I do Video Intercom to the DS2 Mini, I sporadically see this error message on the Intercom Anywhere App, or sometimes on the T3 as well:

"Poor Communication. Continuing with Audio. Video will return when the connection improves."

[AK1]

Your symptoms seem to be Wifi related. This is what the error message suggests also. I wouldn't use Composer Pro as a reliable measure of Wifi performance. Have you used a tool like WiSpy or InSSIDer to review your Wifi channels, and those of your neighbours, especially the 2.4GHz channels? Are your Wifi channels set to automatic or specific channel numbers? 

Have you checked your DS2 firmware (not driver) is up to date? 

Have you redone the auto setup on the DS2 driver?

You could also factory reset T3 easily enough.

[Don Cohen]

We don't have close neighbors, and I've used "WiFi Analyzer" to look at channels.  And using Speedtest.net on my Android phone, in the same location, on the same 2.4GHz band, gives around 50mbps pretty consistently.  We have 200 down and 20 up with Spectrum.  Araknis 510 series router, and 2 Araknis WAP's, one of which is perhaps 20 feet from where we keep the T3.  The 2.4GHz band is Channel 1, Set. 5GHz band is Auto.  I've also tested this out on my phones with a strong Cellular signal (we have a 4g Network Extender), and see the same video error message.

So while I agree that it is suggestive of being WiFi related, it doesn't seem to be that way, based on what I've seen above.

And yes - DS2 firmware is up to date, as well as the driver.  I actually replaced the DS2 once, thinking there was something wrong with it, and had to reconfigure it.  And I did a T3 factory reset yesterday, with no change.

Appreciate the reply and suggestions - I'm all ears to any other insight you might have on this, or things I can do to test.

[AK1]

Are you posting this on dealer forums? Seems like a more appropriate venue.

[AK1]

37 minutes ago, Don Cohen said:

We don't have close neighbors, and I've used "WiFi Analyzer" to look at channels.  And using Speedtest.net on my Android phone, in the same location, on the same 2.4GHz band, gives around 50mbps pretty consistently.  We have 200 down and 20 up with Spectrum.  Araknis 510 series router, and 2 Araknis WAP's, one of which is perhaps 20 feet from where we keep the T3.  The 2.4GHz band is Channel 1, Set. 5GHz band is Auto.  I've also tested this out on my phones with a strong Cellular signal (we have a 4g Network Extender), and see the same video error message.

So while I agree that it is suggestive of being WiFi related, it doesn't seem to be that way, based on what I've seen above.

And yes - DS2 firmware is up to date, as well as the driver.  I actually replaced the DS2 once, thinking there was something wrong with it, and had to reconfigure it.  And I did a T3 factory reset yesterday, with no change.

Appreciate the reply and suggestions - I'm all ears to any other insight you might have on this, or things I can do to test.

Replace T3

You could also remove it and plug it into your POE switch and see how it behaves.

[Don Cohen]

I haven't posted there yet, but you're probably right about that.

I'm also thinking a T3 replacement might be in order, and am just trying to be sure I'm not overlooking something else that might be responsible.  I'd hate to go through that hassle, just to have the problem persist.

I think I'll also order a Klein Tools cable tester, to determine for sure if the DS2 cable is 100%.  When I was troubleshooting the Video Error Message, that was one step suggested that I hadn't gotten around to.

Thanks for your replies.

[AK1]

I would also try the relocation of the T3 to the POE switch for testing purposes.

[Don Cohen]

7 minutes ago, AK1 said:

I would also try the relocation of the T3 to the POE switch for testing purposes.

Interesting idea - never thought of that.  Easy enough to do, so I'll check this out tomorrow.

[Don Cohen]

12 hours ago, AK1 said:

I would also try the relocation of the T3 to the POE switch for testing purposes.

Tried that this morning - no difference.

It's looking more and more like it's a T3 hardware problem...

Still open to other ideas before I pursue replacement.

ETA:
If I wanted to test the POE Cable from my Switch to the DS2 Mini, I was thinking of using this Klein Tester.  Would this be sufficient to find 'subtle' problems, rather than overt breaks in continuity?

The reason I ask is that I would have thought that either it works, or it doesn't, with no inbetween.  If the sporadic Video feed problem that I referred to above, and in a different thread, is arising from the cable not "fully" working and providing full bandwidth, would this Tester identify that problem?  And if not, what else could I use?

[mstafford388]

What is the network topography like?  Are your WAPs and the DS2 plugged into the same switch as the controller running the project?  I've seen issues like this where there are too many hops.  Also you said you checked that your on the latest driver for everything.  I'm guessing you also checked DS2 firmware?  If not definitely do that.  

[Don Cohen]

16 minutes ago, mstafford388 said:

What is the network topography like?  Are your WAPs and the DS2 plugged into the same switch as the controller running the project?  I've seen issues like this where there are too many hops.  Also you said you checked that your on the latest driver for everything.  I'm guessing you also checked DS2 firmware?  If not definitely do that.  

Thanks for the reply.  DS2 Firmware shows as 2.25.2.34.15 which as far as I have found, is the latest firmware.

Regarding Topography:

The following are plugged into an Araknis AN-210-SW-R-8-POE Switch, which in turn is connected to the Araknis AN-3100-RT-4L2W Router directly below it:

• Araknis AN-500-AP-I-AC WAP
• DS2 Mini
• Other devices (Computer, Cable Modem, etc.)

On the other side of this same room from the above devices, there is an Araknis AN-110-SW-R-8 Switch, connected with a 30' or so run of Ethernet Cable, to the other POE Switch. Plugged in here are:

• EA-3 Controller
• Luma 510 Series NVR (with feeds from 2 Luma 510 Series Cameras elsewhere in the home)
• Some other devices (Roku, other AV Devices)

So the EA-3 Controller is on one Araknis switch, while the WAP and DS2 are on the 'main' POE switch. But these are connected by a single relatively short run of CAT6 cable.

Thoughts on this?

[PHILIP1193]

I posted about this very thing on the dealer forums. We have this exact issue on multiple sites, including our showroom. 

Its only between the T3 and DS2. No other way around.

[Don Cohen]

3 minutes ago, PHILIP1193 said:

I posted about this very thing on the dealer forums. We have this exact issue on multiple sites, including our showroom. 

Its only between the T3 and DS2. No other way around.

Very interesting - appreciate your taking the time to post here.

This morning I upgraded to 3.1.3 just in case this had been addressed, but no change at all.  Rebooted the Controller, Restarted/AutoConfig'd the DS2, played around with a wide variety of audio settings on both the T3 and the DS2 Mini, but the problem is unchanged.

When I go from Intercom Anywhere to the DS2 Mini from my Android phone, sometimes the Audio is bad like when using the T3, but other times it's better (though not great).

What I experience is occasional 'squelching' kind of sounds on the T3 itself, with similar sounds, and the Audio cutting out at the DS2 Mini.  Is this what you're experiencing, or is yours different?

I haven't registered yet at the Dealer Forum, and may do so, but if you find out anything there, please post here as well.

[PHILIP1193]

Will do. But if you register on the dealer forum and share your experiences in my thread then i'd suggest we can ask C4 to look at it.

[lippavisual]

17 hours ago, Don Cohen said:

Very interesting - appreciate your taking the time to post here.

This morning I upgraded to 3.1.3 just in case this had been addressed, but no change at all.  Rebooted the Controller, Restarted/AutoConfig'd the DS2, played around with a wide variety of audio settings on both the T3 and the DS2 Mini, but the problem is unchanged.

When I go from Intercom Anywhere to the DS2 Mini from my Android phone, sometimes the Audio is bad like when using the T3, but other times it's better (though not great).

What I experience is occasional 'squelching' kind of sounds on the T3 itself, with similar sounds, and the Audio cutting out at the DS2 Mini.  Is this what you're experiencing, or is yours different?

I haven't registered yet at the Dealer Forum, and may do so, but if you find out anything there, please post here as well.

What you're describing, at least in the pro audio world, sounds to be an issue with the echo cancellation.  That explains the squelching and then no audio as it tries to keep up.  AEC is a live process, meaning it is constantly adjusting based on the sound the mic receives.

I'd chalk it up to either a software problem or the actual processor being used for AEC.

This is also why after the 2 C4 intercom solutions I did, I stopped advertising it.  If I didn't like the experience, why would I push this on a customer? 

[Don Cohen]

1 minute ago, lippavisual said:

What you're describing, at least in the pro audio world, sounds to be an issue with the echo cancellation.  That explains the squelching and then no audio as it tries to keep up.  AEC is a live process, meaning it is constantly adjusting based on the sound the mic receives.

I'd chalk it up to either a software problem or the actual processor being used for AEC.

This is also why after the 2 C4 intercom solutions I did, I stopped advertising it.  If I didn't like the experience, why would I push this on a customer? 

I was thinking along the same lines.  There are various echo cancellation features on both the DS2 Mini and the T3, and I tried turning off any and all of these options that I could find, with no improvement.  But based on your ideas, I'll double-check on all of this to make sure.

I really love my C4 system overall, but the DS2 Mini has been a disappointment: the current Audio Intercom problem, poor night mode video quality, relatively low resolution video, the "Poor Connection" error I sporadically get on any Intercom calls, from T3 or Android Phones, not providing a wide enough angle to see what packages might be placed at the doorstep, no PIR motion options, etc.

But when I've researched other options, I haven't as yet found any compelling alternatives.

[lippavisual]

I love my Doorbird.  Hated it at first because they were constantly updating and the driver would break.  But now, I'd say it's been solid for over a year or so.  My kids call me on it every day.

I have the older D101S but am looking to swap out to this new one.

https://www.doorbird.com/downloads/datasheet/datasheet_d1101_surface_en.pdf

[Don Cohen]

56 minutes ago, lippavisual said:

I love my Doorbird.  Hated it at first because they were constantly updating and the driver would break.  But now, I'd say it's been solid for over a year or so.  My kids call me on it every day.

I have the older D101S but am looking to swap out to this new one.

https://www.doorbird.com/downloads/datasheet/datasheet_d1101_surface_en.pdf

Looks interesting.  How comprehensive is the Control4 Driver, and where can you get it?  Also - does this work with Intercom Anywhere?

I disabled all echo cancellation options I can find, on both devices, but the problem remains.

[lippavisual]

You need AEC for it to work properly, so shutting it off won't help at all.

DB driver is on Drivercentral and does work with IA.

[Don Cohen]

On 6/16/2020 at 4:48 PM, PHILIP1193 said:

I posted about this very thing on the dealer forums. We have this exact issue on multiple sites, including our showroom. 

Its only between the T3 and DS2. No other way around.

I hate to bring up a year-old thread, but my problem persists, and is annoying.  I can answer DS2-Mini Intercom calls fine with our Android Phones, but with the T3, we can hear them, but they can barely hear us, as the audio keeps cutting out, accompanied by a 'squelching' sound at the T3.

Previous troubleshooting is documented above, including making sure all devices have up-to-date firmware, both the DS2-Mini and T3 have reset, and in fact, each have been replaced by a new unit, with a new T3 installed this morning.  It was very disappointing to see no improvement in hearing the DS2-Mini with the T3.

Network topology is documented above, is relatively simple, and the problem was unchanged even when I connected the T3 by Ethernet, which seems to rule out a WiFi source of this problem.

I used a relatively inexpensive Klein Tools HDMI cable tester, and no faults were identified.  I realize this isn't the final answer, but spending a huge amount of money to test this cable seemed overkill.  Running a new cable through my crawlspace is inconvenient to say the least, but is the only thing not done yet.  And given what is reported in what I quoted, it seems doubtful that it would make a difference.

I'm on 3.2.2, Drivers are up-to-date.

I re-quoted @PHILIP1193 here because he found the same problem at multiple sites, including his showroom.  Have you found any solution to this problem?

I'm at my wits end with this, and basically can't use the T3 for Intercom purposes with the DS2-Mini.  I'd love to get this functioning right, and happy to do additional troubleshooting.