Need a dealer! Need a driver made.

[urbanmark]

Note that you can write 2 way drivers but the amount of time it takes to make one is tremendous. To give you an example the marantz driveri wrote took aproximately 40 hours to write (and i'm good at writing drivers).

Alan... that's very insightful information. I crave a fully-functional 2 way serial driver for my new Denon, but I had no appreciation for how much more difficult it was versus an IR driver. That's way too much time... seems like there's an opportunity to make that easier!

[wappinghigh]

When I went through training I was told that C4 does not work well with using multiple zones from one receiver. I have never sold a multi zone receiver and if my customer had one I have refused to set this up.

What's interesting here is Control4 profiles Denon as a "certified partner" all the time. For example' date=' here's a Control4 press release from Jan 7th [url']http://www.control4.com/news/95/44/Sony-Pioneer-Kwikset-Yamaha-Samsung-Integra-Denon-and-More-Join-Control4-Certification-Programs-to-Create-the-Smart-Home/ specifically highlighting the multi-zone capabilities of Denon/Marantz. Why would C4 profile multi-zone capabilities of "certified partners" in corporate press releases and then discourage their use in training?

This is a great thread ...As a customer, I've never quite understood their "driver" production and distribution either. I recently put in a new Integra (replacing an NAD), simply because the dealer was much happier with their drivers (and liked working with them) Even though both companies are "partners", and I could get a trade in on a Denon. I decided to go with what the dealer recommended. Cost me around 2K for a new receiver, but I figured stuffying around with driver time (and the ongoing service charges) would cost me more in the long run....

I wish Cody, Dan, or someone like Ryan, could really explain how all this driver stuff happens, how they are shared, who actually writes and "owns them", why some seem "free", but others aren't (like the new appleTV one), and whether special requests - like yours could maybee be "ordered" on the 4store (wishful thinking I know )...

I'm not pissed at the company or anything. This company rocks, and the new app store and 2.0 approach is great and very exciting..it's just I've always found this "partner" and driver stuff a little confusing....

[wappinghigh]

Note that you can write 2 way drivers but the amount of time it takes to make one is tremendous. To give you an example the marantz driveri wrote took aproximately 40 hours to write (and i'm good at writing drivers).

Alan... that's very insightful information. I crave a fully-functional 2 way serial driver for my new Denon' date=' but I had no appreciation for how much more difficult it was versus an IR driver. That's way too much time... seems like there's an opportunity to make that easier![/quote']

Great post. This goes to the heart of the matter. How does someone so talented like Alan C get to recoup due financial rewards for his efforts and time? Lets hope this is what the 4store is all about :cool:

[wappinghigh]

Oh we'll do it, don't get us wrong (dealers). But because you may be the only one that wants it, for us to justify spending our time and resources on it, it will most likely *not* be worth it for you, in most cases.

With new products, it will take that one person to "pony up" for the benefit of the overall community, unless it's someting like the Sony Bluray changer where it's an easy cost-justification for Control4 themselves to do.

Cody, Why should someone "pony up" on one of the common brands? Isn't this what being a "certified partner" is all about? Warning soap box post ahead...let me know if you want it deleted..:rolleyes:

Sure I know the response is going to be..."but there are thousands of devices and specialist requests", and I've read Dan's and the other's explanations, but some brands sell way more than others...

Why can't we (as customers) have a list of brands and a rating system on the available drivers. Take some of the guess work out of device AND dealer selection.....Then If we find we really like a device, but there is little or no driver support...that's as much our problem. If we make the decision to run with it, and it bombs...it would take a bit of pressure off the dealer! But hopefully we could then "outsource" for a better driver (say via the contacts on this forum, or via c4central, or even the new app store). We could get a quote and decide if it's worthwhile. Our choice to be the "pony". You'd might be surprised how much we'd be prepared to pay...

Harmony remotes were mentioned previously. Actually when I had one of these (sic) this is exactly what I did. Before purchasing gear I used Harmony's online database to see if there was a driver. If there wasn't, alarm bells went off..and with something important like a receiver, I didn't purchase...my feeling was why should I be the "test case dummy". On TV's I'd take a risk...and spend hours of my own time muckin around trying to get it to work. Taught me a big lesson. Just how hard this driver stuff really is! But this form of online "Sharing" was at least free. With C4 there is no such database visible for the customer (correct me if i am wrong) AND the customer can end up paying for dealer "stuffing around"....

I can see a great roll for C4central here. As a central base for new driver requests. Wouldn't even care if it was undisclosed. A customer could put in a request. Even via his/her dealer. Or a driver "writer" could register say he was interested in writing some sort of app or driver. Advertising could go out (eg onto C4 or the brands forums). Count the numbers. Work out a price. See if it's viable. And bingo. Into the driver database. Or onto the 4store.

But it seems customers are confused about just what the drivers are capable of. Or even if they are available! Lets have the driver and rating facts first. At the moment we have to rely on what the dealer tells us. Then sit around and pay for time if they are no good at programming (See the original post). Maybee this is where disappointment sets in. Dealer selection seems a bit pot luck. I'm lucky. I have a great dealer, and fantastic backup from the Australian distributor. They both actually helped me select compatible products BEFORE I went ahead with my C4 purchase. How good is that! So my system is working fine. Others may not be so lucky. Perhaps if customers could independantly research the facts on some sort of driver database before dealer and brand choice was made, it would be better for the C4 product overall....:

[thecodeman]

Oh we'll do it' date=' don't get us wrong (dealers). But because you may be the only one that wants it, for us to justify spending our time and resources on it, it will most likely *not* be worth it for you, in most cases.

With new products, it will take that one person to "pony up" for the benefit of the overall community, unless it's someting like the Sony Bluray changer where it's an easy cost-justification for Control4 themselves to do.[/quote']

Cody, Why should someone "pony up" on one of the common brands? Isn't this what being a "certified partner" is all about? Warning soap box post ahead...let me know if you want it deleted..:rolleyes:

Because until a better method is implemented, that's currently how this whole thing works. It's not easy on me as a dealer either. I'm quoting a job now in a remote location of Texas that *must* have IP or RS-232 communication to *every* device in the project. Not exactly a walk in the park finding which devices have that support, then have drivers written, and then actually work well.

[akg4y]

The simple fact that it is not financially feasible for an end user to get a driver made for a specific piece of hardware is exactly why end users should be given an opportunity to write drivers for themselves. I sure wouldnt pay $75 x 40 hours ($3000) to get a two way driver made for anything, but if I had the know-how I would probably chip away at the driver for a few hours each week until it was suitable for my purposes. Make that part of an opensource driver community with public downloads and before you know it you'd have high quality drivers for a vast majority of commonplace equipment, AND workable drivers for the less common equipment.

EDIT: Maf.

[dgbrown]

This is one of those issues that obviously strikes a nerve with the user base (perhaps the user base that frequents this forum), but perhaps we should see what 2.x brings. I've mentioned this before .... if I were a betting man at some point post 2.x C4 creates a developers network. They have a dealer network that's focused on install and integration, a partner network with their own ax to grind (equip sales), and a ???? focused on new 2.x app development. Neither of the aforementioned groups have the necessary skills in house to accelerate the pickup of the 4store. In terms of dealers, how many of them actually write (*or have the ability to write) 2 way drivers or LUA, let alone the front end flash components that 2.x brings to the table.

Hitting the tunnel ... will finish this up in a bit.

[ILoveC4]

I sure wouldnt pay $75 x 40 hours ($6000) to get a two way driver made for anything.

Sorry, but I had to say it...check your math. $75 x 40 is only $3,000 - still a lot of money.

I should also mention that I would love to help out with this driver stuff more, but I am just an end user like most other people on this forum. I may have had some opportunities to play around with things that some of you haven't, but I certainly don't have any commercial interest in Control4 aside from the investment I made in putting it in my home. I experience the same frustrations you all do. All I can say is that if you find the right dealer and treat him right, it will be amazing some of the things he/she will do for you.