davevt98 Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 I am about to put a ceiling fan in and replace a light fixture. The light is currently controlled by a c4 dimmer. It is preblocked but the one switch, where the dimmer is currently, would control both the fan speed and light. Does anyone know if I can keep the dimmer or will I need to replace it with a c4 switch or just take out the c4 equpiment all together. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 In my house in the rooms I have a fan/light combo I don't use C4 unfortunately. I just put the little keypad that came with the fan in the wall box, and use the supplied remote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 Here's a question on the subject though for those more knowledgeable. I have some fans in my house that are just fans, no lights or anything. They are controlled by Lutron Fan Speed Controllers, which look like a Decora dimmer but a have a little tab to the right that you can slide up or down to adjust the fan speed. Does Control4 have any plans to make a fan speed controller? Would a dimmer work in this application?Sorry to hijack Dave. Back to our originally scheduled topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 A dimmer will *not* work to dim a fan, and unfortunately I know of no plans for Control4 to make a fan compatible dimmer."Dumb" Fans' speed is typically controlled via switching in capacitors, i.e. capacitive dimming. Control4 dimmers are a PWM (chopping) dimmer, and can cause humming, and possible damage to the fan and/or dimmer.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henniae Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 A dimmer will *not* work to dim a fan, and unfortunately I know of no plans for Control4 to make a fan compatible dimmer."Dumb" Fans' speed is typically controlled via switching in capacitors, i.e. capacitive dimming. Control4 dimmers are a PWM (chopping) dimmer, and can cause humming, and possible damage to the fan and/or dimmer.RyanEIt is too bad C4 (or someone else) is not making a fan control that will integrate with a C4 sysem. This would be a killer device. I would think that it would be an easy sell. I would put 3 in my house right now if they were available. I would think that they would be great in a commercial environment too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebery Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 Fan companies need to introduce a zigbee controlled fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 +1 for the zigbee controlled fan....as long as it came with a driver =)I would buy a whole bunch of those fan controls if they were available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smccray Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 +2I'd buy fan controlls for every ceiling fan in the house. It's a no brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davevt98 Posted August 3, 2010 Author Share Posted August 3, 2010 Thanks for all the responses. Glad I asked before blindly incorporating it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smccray Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Thanks for all the responses. Glad I asked before blindly incorporating it.Dave-You have the option of putting the fan on C4. You can control the fan light (if it has one) with a standard control4 dimmer. You'll have to control the motor using a control4 switch, but if you wire the control4 switch directly to the fan you'll have to use the pull cord to control the fan speed.I've toyed around with the idea of wiring a fan motor speed control between the C4 swich and the fan which should work, but it's only partial control of the fan (on/off- speed would still manual on the wall), result in a lot of extra expense, and require a lot of wall acne in order to get it done.For me it wasn't worth it but I did think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 ^I had the same thought about putting a C4 switch in between the power and fan speed controller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henniae Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 To add to Ryans comments above about switching capacitors to control the fan speed. It is possible to build a fan speed control that uses relays to switch the correct capacitors into the speed circuit. I have disassembled a fan speed control and it is not too complicated. Here is a page that shows how to build a device that controls the fan speed. It uses X10 but this is not important. What is important is that he uses a micro controller to sense the level of dimming on the X10 dimmer and activate relays that switch in the proper capacitors.http://www.edcheung.com/automa/nohum.htmThis might look complicated but the really simple part is the bottom half of the schematic. This is the part that has the relays that switch in/out the capacitors. If one were to build just the relay part and use C4 relays to activate the capacitors switching relays one would have a system that could control speed of a fan with C4. If you really wanted to get fancy you can use additional relays to control fan speed direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcoxferris Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 I actually do this but I use a motor controller that incorporates the RF remote control that is stashed in the center console of the couch it eliminates wall acne and we rarely change the speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henniae Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 I actually do this but I use a motor controller that incorporates the RF remote control that is stashed in the center console of the couch it eliminates wall acne and we rarely change the speed.I agree that is a workable solution. I don't change the speed too often. I use a C4 dimmer to control the light and a C4 switch to control on/off of the fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamonddesign Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 I've heard some people control their fans with Lutro Maestro fan dimmers (which controls a ton of fan types) and using Control4 to control the Maestro. I haven't tried I personally yet but I'm going to try it out soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3fingerbrown Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 I just have mine on a C4 switch. I can turn on/off from my SR-250 remote while on the couch. Works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 3fingerbrown, how do you control the speed? In the room I'm most interested in controlling fans in my house the ceiling is 22 feet high and so using the pull string isn't an option...I also wonder what speed mine would be at by default because right now the speed control is a tab that's part of the switch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 BTW, the Ed Cheung DIY device isn't strictly X10... he's just using an X10 dimmer as the input. You could build the same device, and hook it up to a Control4 dimmer, and I think it would still work.I've thought at various points about making a few of those, it's quite ingenious, but never had the time.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 His email address is *@gsfc.NASA.gov. I'd bet this is one smart guy. What a brilliant idea this seems to be. Unfortunately the links at the bottom aren't working anymore, and I am not good enough with that stuff to read the schematic and understand what to do.I would take this project on if I had a better understanding of how it worked... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Here's the real first link (the kit), which has more schematics:http://www.edcheung.com/automa/nohumkit.htmRyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spugh Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 I know this topic has been beaten to death, but I've got my bat out and ready to take a few more whacks :-). A few companies make wireless fan controllers. Personally, I have 4 high-end Minka-Aire ceiling fans that came with a wireless receiver that mounts inside the canopy at the ceiling and a control box that mounts in the previous switch location. That control box is just a wireless transmitter that takes power from the existing 110v wiring and sends control commands via wireless to the receiver. You don't even have to have that control box installed; the fan can be controlled directly via a hand-held remote control. Lowe's sells a universal solution the same as my Minka-Aire ones. It is made by Hunter Douglas and costs around $70 for both the receiver and wall-controller. Both of these allow full dimming of the ceiling fan light and 3 preset fan speeds (slow, medium, fast). I'm really not sure why Control4 or someone else can't make a canopy mounted zigbee device that operates the same as these existing devices. I know I am about to oversimplify the process, but in my mind it should be as easy as replacing the existing radio in this device with a zigbee radio and creating a driver in composer to send the commands to the receiver. This is a different approach than has been discussed in this thread before. If such a zigbee canopy receiver existed, that device is what actually dims the light and sets the fan speed. I'd envision the user interface to be a 6-button keypad (Light - on/ramp up, Light - off/ramp down, Fan - off, Fan - Slow, Fan - Medium, Fan - Fast). Anyone else think this is doable without a ton of re-engineering?Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 Certainly doable, but not without a ton of re-engineering.Saying "just take this unit, remove the current radio, replace with a ZigBee radio" is like saying that you can just take an old Yugo, slap a Ferrari engine in there, and Bob's your Uncle, you've got a Ferrari.How Control4 would typically tackle something like this is not to create their own solution, but to partner with a company (say Hunter-Douglas). Until that happens, I wouldn't expect much of anything to come in this category.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcoxferris Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 Yeah the good thing about this forum is that we are all hoping that maybe someone from control4 would look at it and maybe bring up this idea at a meeting or something :-D... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3fingerbrown Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 3fingerbrown, how do you control the speed? In the room I'm most interested in controlling fans in my house the ceiling is 22 feet high and so using the pull string isn't an option...You're right, the speed controls are way up there with the strings, so its a one-speed fan controlled by a C4 switch. Works for me. Its like your old one-speed BMX bike. It never had a problem with the derailer!Actually, right now its a no-speed fan because one of my kids let a helium balloon float up there and it got wrapped around the fan. Now I have to go and get a really tall ladder. Crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jroza1 Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 I have my dimmer set to 100% load as a minimum and then just change with a string. I know that won't work for you Dan - but hey... I gotta take my wins where I can get them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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