Letran Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 Need some help in how to go about adding 8 CA wireless motion sensors, 5 wired motions, 12 wired/wireless water sensors (with shut off valve from WaterCop or alternative)I have 2 HC300 and 1 HC200. My dealer tells me that adding an ELK security panel will be the best way to go (as oppose to an I/O extender) I currently have a DSC panel but its full. not sure if it is expandable. And I'm not sure if the security monitoring company will let me fool around with their setup.I'm curious how the members here go about adding these sensors and contacts and integrating it with C4.Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecodeman Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 If you go wireless with everything, the Card Access pieces are zigbee... so you dont need a panel or an i/o extender. This is assuming you have other zigbee pieces that can be repeaters such as lighting, keypads, thermostats, etc. because the zigbee radios on the controllers have only 8 slots (24 total slots in your project if all have zigbee radios on) and it wont work well otherwise (one node will always be hanging). Anyway, ask your dealer to explain why he wants to use the Elk panel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 Cody, can you please elaborate on the eight slots thing? That didn't make sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 That makes two of us... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letran Posted October 23, 2010 Author Share Posted October 23, 2010 As the dealer explained. Having only 2 HC300 and 1 HC200 will not be enough to connect all the motion sensors and water contacts. So I would need to buy a panel or an I/O extender to connect all the sensors and contacts. But since the ELK panel is more usefull and expandable. He would suggest an ELK panel over the I/O extender. But then now you are saying if I use all wireless I wouldn't need either I'll just have to buy wireless motions CA wireless motions is twice the price of wired common motions so for the difference in cost I might as well add a panel or an I/O extender to the project. Does that make sense. How would one (cost effectively) go about adding:8 CA wireless motion sensors5 wired motions8 wireless water sensors (with shut off valve from WaterCop or alternative)4 wired water sensor4 contacts/relaysThanks,PS. as I understand 8 radio slots per controller(HC300/HC200) times 3 is 24 wireless slots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 This whole "8 radio slots per controller" is not making sense to me. I can tell you each controller can handle more than 8 devices. The biggest system I've seen is an acquaintance off mine a few miles from here. He has over 600 zigbee devices and he doesn't have 75 controllers...I have a lot more than 8 devices per controller. Letran, I'll give your question some thought and put my two cents in later... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecodeman Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 This whole "8 radio slots per controller" is not making sense to me. I can tell you each controller can handle more than 8 devices. The biggest system I've seen is an acquaintance off mine a few miles from here. He has over 600 zigbee devices and he doesn't have 75 controllers...I have a lot more than 8 devices per controller. Letran, I'll give your question some thought and put my two cents in later...Look, here's how it works.The zigbee radio in a controller can only communicate directly to 8 nodes. This is why the topology is a mesh, with "parenting"/"repeating" devices such as dimmers, switches, etc. You've all heard that these devices "strengthen" the mesh, and here's some of why, besides range.HC300 - devices such as a remote (sleepy): they are not "parenting" devices, and if there isnt something else to talk to they must talk directly to the controller, taking up a "slot".HC300 - parenting devices - remotes (sleepy): the remotes can talk to the nearest dimmer which will relay to the controller. The remote doesnt occupy the slot, something else can, which can support other nodes.It may not make sense at first, but I can guarantee I've seen it happen on a job in which we had just controllers and remotes - the remotes dropped offline all the time and we couldnt get them all to stay "online" at the same time until we added in another controller/card access contact with line power and external antenna. Once these "parenting" devices were in, additional "slots" were available, and all devices could be online.Not everyday you have 1 controller, 12 remotes, and nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 Interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdvr Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 Its one reason why everyone should have non sleepy devices in their "mesh" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 So would one dimmer provide one slot, or eight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 Is this really why my dealer threw three or four CA relays into my project?? I thought it was ONLY for range...I think I finally get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdvr Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 With out knowing your project, I have no Idea. But sometimes dealers are aware of potential problems that need to be adressed. Sometimes they even recommend certain network gear even though the "experts" on a forum, say "lol at that advice" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 Main problem was SR-250s going brain-dead in several areas of the house. Now, I guess, SRs can talk to the CA relays which in turn route back to the controller?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdvr Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 That could be true. I have seen systems that need places to hop to. But I cannot guarantee that it why you need it.I am sorry for being vague.Brent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 No, no problem- those did fix me up nicely. Wifey thinks they are causing tumors on our kids (devices are hidden behind their beds) but that's another story... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letran Posted October 24, 2010 Author Share Posted October 24, 2010 Going back to the original question.thecodeman, thanks for the mesh explanation. I've got about 50/60 wireless dimmers & switches and about 9 outlets etc. so it should be plenty of repeaters. As the dealer explained. Having only 3 HC300 and 1 HC200 will not be enough to connect all the motion sensors and water contacts. So I would need to buy a panel or an I/O extender to connect all the sensors and contacts. But since the ELK panel is more usefull and expandable. He would suggest an ELK panel over the I/O extender.I actually thought this will be a more common situation. How does everybody else do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letran Posted October 30, 2010 Author Share Posted October 30, 2010 Any suggestions how to connect:8 CA wireless motion sensors5 wired motions8 wireless water sensors (with shut off valve from WaterCop or alternative)4 wired water sensor4 contacts/relaysAnyone? By the way I only have 2 HC300 & 1 HC200 (not 3 HC300)Thanks in advance, needs some direction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 The card access units are zigbee, so that's ready. Connect the wired morons to a cheap security panel and buy an I/O Ectender for the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgbrown Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 ^ If he's buying a panel (a concord 4 fits the bill), he should save the money on the i/o extender and just use the panel to drive/monitor the wired sensors too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letran Posted October 30, 2010 Author Share Posted October 30, 2010 Does it make a difference if it is an ELK panel (looks good) as oppose to the Concord (not sure how it looks)?Better integration? How much? I'm guessing I couldgo with any water sensors not specifically CA?Thanks for the help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henniae Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 Does it make a difference if it is an ELK panel (looks good) as oppose to the Concord (not sure how it looks)?Better integration? How much? I'm guessing I couldgo with any water sensors not specifically CA?Thanks for the helpThe Concord is probably the best panel to integrate with C4.In regards to looks, they are just metal boxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 Yeah, looks better? Hopefully you are referring to specs and not the physical equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 He may be referring to the keypads.The ELK have a 'retro' look that some prefer to the GE keypads.Looks like a 50's jukebox to me.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letran Posted November 6, 2010 Author Share Posted November 6, 2010 You're correct Ryan, I do mean the keypads. Though have not seen one I've been told it has more functionalities and looks very slick. But if Concord 4 integrates better I'll go with that instead. I hope their keypads look OK too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letran Posted November 19, 2010 Author Share Posted November 19, 2010 How many motion detectors per HC300?Is it better to integration if the motions/sensors are directly connected to an HC300 as oppose to a Concord panel or does it matter?Does motion detecting slow down the controller?If you want to use the motion detector function of an POE IP camera do you still need to connect a contact/relay separate from Ethernet/RJ45 connection on the switch?Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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