Building New House - Please help

[millerlite]

First of all thanks for all the great information here, its really helped in cabling and product info.

My orginal scope of using control 4 included the below functionality which was bid by a local C4 AV Supplier: (most of the AV equipment I need to buy as well)

Great Room/AV Closet behind fireplace

5.1 surround using Denon 2311CI - Housed in AV Closet

BDP-CX700ES - Housed in AV Closet - Thinking about the $500-$600version not the $1600-$1800 version now.

C4-8amp1-B - Housed in AV Closet - 8 room music (2 upstairs - Playroom, Study), 1 Balcony, 1 patio, (2 downstairs - Kitchen, Master Bedroom) - 2 future

C4-IPDKTT1EB - Ipod Dock - in kitchen

C4-CVS12ES-B-A - Video Matrix - 1 Media Room, 1 Master Bedroom, 1 Great Room, 1 Playroom - 8 future

C4-Stats - 3 zones

HC-300 - Main Controller - Great Room & Patio

2 Motorized Shades

Apple Time Capsule

Future Cat6 or 5E (haven't decided) for sprinker system, pool, intercom)

4 CCTV with DVR Security System (arm/disarm and CCTV) - Want to view camera on IPAD/Iphone

I want to do most if not all from IPAD/IPhone

Play Room

HC-200B

2 Music Speakers

Master Bedroom

HC-200B

2 Music Speakers

1 motorized shade

Media Room

EPSON 9100 Procinema

HC-200B - Not sure I need this due to mainly Movie watching and adjacent to Playroom HC-200B)

Blue Ray Player

Surround Sound 7.1 - Denon 2311CI

I started with one bid and using the same components recieved 2 other bids. I wanted to do lighting in master bedroom, great room, and media room but have budget contraints

Looking for advice, confirmation, things you would do and not do

Thanks!

[CFUG]

That's alot of controllers- why one for each room?

[millerlite]

1 for each TV basically with the HC-300 for patio and greatroom and main director. The master bedroom TV is within 10-15 ft of the HC-300 though. Do I not need one for each TV?

Thanks,

[Letran]

Couple opinions,

1. I would plan on an HDMI video switch as oppose to a component switch. Component is nearing its sunset

2. Do all Cat6 STP it might be an overkill for some but will give you flexiblilty in the future, and the price diff is not much.

3. The cheapest is not always the best bid

[CFUG]

1 for each TV basically with the HC-300 for patio and greatroom and main director. The master bedroom TV is within 10-15 ft of the HC-300 though. Do I not need one for each TV?

Thanks,

Of course not. OSD is not always needed as iPad, 7"TS even the lowly SR-250 can be used majority of the time.

[millerlite]

Letran,

Im not sure I understand about HDMI video switch vs component switch. The C4-CVS12ES-B-A I thought was cat5/6 switch for the home runs with a conversion box to HDMI on the TV's. Is there a C4 or compatible HDMI Switch? and wouldn't I lose signal quality over about 15ft if I ran HDMI?

Thanks,

[ILoveC4]

I use one navigator for 7 TV's, so it can easily be done =) I have a pretty good sized project, and utilize four controllers...one being a five year old dinosaur I don't have the heart to throw away.

Pop for the more expensive changer. The integration it provides is worth it. If you don't do it know, you'll be putting the lesser model on eBay and buying the ES down the road.

[millerlite]

Controlfouruserguy,

So I could just delete the HC-200B for the master bedroom and use an IPAD/Iphone to watch tv, movies, switch channels, volume control, shades, etc?

I want to buy what I need but if I can delete stuff that would be great.

Thanks for all your replies

[millerlite]

ILovec4,

So I'm understanding that I could just get the HC-300 for downstairs and HC-200 or HC-300 for upstairs? Ok I'll probably go with ES changer especially if I can save on controllers.

Thanks,

[ILoveC4]

Controlfouruserguy,

So I could just delete the HC-200B for the master bedroom and use an IPAD/Iphone to watch tv, movies, switch channels, volume control, shades, etc?

I want to buy what I need but if I can delete stuff that would be great.

Thanks for all your replies

Are you doing distributed video through a matrix? If so, just put a navigator in the matrix.

That's what I do.

[CFUG]

It's hard for me to say without looking at your topology. You may need extra help with ZAPs here and there. Certainly, discrete OSD is not necessarily mandatory as you now know...

[millerlite]

Yes I was going to buy C4-CVS12ES-B-A (which I believe is a 12 room HD video matrix). By the way my home is 3,721 sf.

Thanks

Controlfouruserguy' date='

So I could just delete the HC-200B for the master bedroom and use an IPAD/Iphone to watch tv, movies, switch channels, volume control, shades, etc?

I want to buy what I need but if I can delete stuff that would be great.

Thanks for all your replies[/quote']

Are you doing distributed video through a matrix? If so, just put a navigator in the matrix.

That's what I do.

[millerlite]

If I go with only 1 or 2 controllers, should I go with two HC-300 (one for upstairs and one for down) or go with the HC-1000?

[CFUG]

Why don't you let the dealer decide that? It's too easy for anyone here just to say yes, go for the 1000.

[nikon]

Letran,

Im not sure I understand about HDMI video switch vs component switch. The C4-CVS12ES-B-A I thought was cat5/6 switch for the home runs with a conversion box to HDMI on the TV's. Is there a C4 or compatible HDMI Switch? and wouldn't I lose signal quality over about 15ft if I ran HDMI?

Thanks,

Letran is just saying that HD bluray over component video is done at the end of the year for anything over 480i which will look like absolute crap. This hasn't yet moved to cable and satellite but I did speak with a fellow from Crestron yesterday and he was saying that though this only currently effects blurays the rest will eventually come. There will definately be a lot of pissed off people but letran and I would rather save you from that fate.

It is possible to run HDMI over cat5/cat6 130'+ using baluns and the signal is still great. There are some budget switches out there which work fine but they are mostly just 4x4 matrixs at this point. SnapAV i heard is working on an 8x8 verision of their switch which will no doubt be very attractive price wise. I am not sure on your timeframe for this to move to install but in my opinion you should reconsider the component matrix.

http://proavmagazine.com/high-definition-video/the-sun-also-sets.aspx

[millerlite]

Thanks! not sure I totally understand. I need to start my low volt wiring soon and am finalizing the bid. The video matrix I listed above (C4-CVS12ES-B-A) is like $3000 and I dont want spend that kind of money if its not the best. If yall were going to buy a video matrix what specfically should I go out and get now?

[millerlite]

Is this what your talking about? Binary™ HDMI 4x4 Matrix Switch with HDMI and Cat5e/6 Outputs

[millerlite]

Snap AV doesn't give me a price, any idea how much this thing is? Also I guess I would need multiple of these since i will have xbox,cable TV,blueray for many locations

[nikon]

unfortunately the Current batch of 8X8 HDMI switches are insanley expensive. If you only need 4 TVs for the next while you can go with the snapAV 4x4 which I have found to work well. It can support 8 TVs in its own wonky way but it is essentially just splitting every output. 4 will use the balun receivers and the others will use an actual HDMI cables or HDMI baluns.

This may be able to get you by until HDMI technology advances and comes down in price with more competition/switches entering the market.

[millerlite]

Thanks Nikon, so I just need one 4X4 then, any idea how much this thing is?

unfortunately the Current batch of 8X8 HDMI switches are insanley expensive. If you only need 4 TVs for the next while you can go with the snapAV 4x4 which I have found to work well. It can support 8 TVs in its own wonky way but it is essentially just splitting every output. 4 will use the balun receivers and the others will use an actual HDMI cables or HDMI baluns.

This may be able to get you by until HDMI technology advances and comes down in price with more competition/switches entering the market.

[nikon]

Snap AV doesn't give me a price, any idea how much this thing is? Also I guess I would need multiple of these since i will have xbox,cable TV,blueray for many locations

Yep that is the one. you are limited to 4 inputs unfortunately and 4-8 outputs. I believe that retail is around $1599 but I am 100% certain that you can work it down from there. Who knows the 8x8 matrix may be ready by the time you are ready to go. You don't want multiple units you need one unit that supports everything as these cannot be cascaded.

Remember that splitting the outputs on the 4x4 you are watching the same thing on 2 TVs. Use this to just bridge the gap for now you only have a need for 4 TVs right away anyway. When youa re ready to get an 8x8 I am pretty sure someone on the forum will buy the 4x4 off you.

[millerlite]

Awesome I will go this route

The dealer is saying I need HC-300 as main controller and 1 ea HC-200 for each TV, but I dont think I need that. My home is 3,700 sf but the 4 main zones are right next to each other, longest cable run of 30-40ft max. I think I can get by with HC-300 downstairs and either HC-300 up or HC-200 up. Your thoughts?

I am wanting to control, Audio,Video, Thermostats, Shades, 2-4 lighting switchs, (future pool), security, CCTV.

Snap AV doesn't give me a price' date=' any idea how much this thing is? Also I guess I would need multiple of these since i will have xbox,cable TV,blueray for many locations[/quote']

Yep that is the one. you are limited to 4 inputs unfortunately and 4-8 outputs. I believe that retail is around $1599 but I am 100% certain that you can work it down from there. Who knows the 8x8 matrix may be ready by the time you are ready to go. You don't want multiple units you need one unit that supports everything as these cannot be cascaded.

[nikon]

controllers are needed at every TV if you want to displaythe control4 screen on the TV. If you have problems seeing the remote control's LCD screen as some older people I know have, they really like to use the on screen menu.

As long as you have cat5 wire at the TV that will goto a controller in the rack that will have available IR ports you can control the TV and not need a home controller at that location. Minimum spec I use for wire at TV locations in a home with distributed video is 2 cat5, 2 cat6, and 1 rg6. You will be fine if you use this spec from what I see in your list.

[chicagoskiguy]

MillerLite,

I have the Sony matrix you were considering. It works great, but if I were buying today, I'd do an HDMI matrix.

On the controllers, I was talked into 1 HC300 per TV by my dealer, one is totally unused, and the other is rarely used. With a video matrix in the mix, you really only need 1 controller to run navigator. The matrix will allow that one navigator to be displayed on any screen. The only limitation is if 2 people try to use the navigator at the same time.....

This may sound like an issue, but after the first 2 weeks, you'll control your system only using the remotes anyway. I usually only fire up the C4 screen to show guests, or if I'm trying to "teach" someone quickly how to use the system.

Also, I chose to skip the T-Stats.... they aren't particularly cheap, if you read the forums, they are not entirely trouble free (someone is always asking about calibration and over/under), and honestly, once I programmed the $100 Honeywell, I really don't touch the thing anyway.

Love my C4 8 room amp. On the 4 channel DVR/Security cameras... go 8. That way you can have all 4 sides of your house covered, plus focus in on specific entries, etc. Also, I have the video out of my Security DVR going to my video matrix (dealer said I needed an Axis video server). I can't view the cameras through 4Sight, but many DVR's have remote capabilities. Also, use Cat6, the cable itself is a slightly more, mostly it's the connectors/ends that cost a bit more.

If I were to do it over, I'd have one HC300, and one HC1000.

Hope this helps.

[dogdvr]

OK lots of opinions. Low on facts.

We know your square footage is 3700, but how many people live in the house? What ages?

My kids would hide in their room and play music or watch movies on their own. So you may need more than one on screen GUI

If you have discussed this with your dealer than maybe he is right.

Part of the planning is to find out the uses and expectations of the customer. Forum post's (not so much).

Go back to your dealer and have him explain why he recommended this setup. Please take all the responses that you have received here. Ask him to discuss why he recommended what he did.

Sometimes customers (even those on this forum) fail to realize that Control4 prints recommended guidlines for systems for a reason.

*** I am not saying who is correct. I am just asking you to please take your concerns to your dealer ***