rf9000

Yes, because I can sell the hardware if needed. Opposed to the one comment on here suggesting that everything should be bought new from the dealer as the only way things will work, there is a very large market for these items so they will sell easy. If I need to sell a bunch of dimmers to move to panelized, I can do that. I think in my mind, I'm not familair with panelized so it worries me to make sure I'm doing it all correctly. My dealer has done panelized and they are not against it. They will do that too. They just say that in our area it is not common and they usually just hide dimmers/switches instead to save money, make it easier for electricians, etc.

Because its less expensive. I literally bought a dealer that was shutting its doors. Does it matter to you where I'm getting my equipment? I have it and doesnt really pertain much to this thread.

Bare with me here. All in all, after looking at this, are we not doing the exact thing as hiding dimmers in a closet, but just hiding a panel instead? Its not like with panelized lighting that if someone wanted to back to conventional lighting they ever could. So it really seems like the only difference between this just trying to eliminate "Zigbee storm" or any interference? My dealer says that panelized vs. hiding the actual dimmers/switches is kinda the same idea, just it is a less expensive way of doing it. They also say we do not have hidden switches all over the house, just limited to three locations where you would probably put the panel modules anyways. With panel you could just make one location instead of three, but what they are saying is technically correct, right?

But the conversation to new buyer of turn the outside lights on with the switch in the kids bedroom closet is kinda ummn Lets just look at the main level.The main level is 6000 square feet. There are three locations where we were looking to hide switches. So in those three locations, we would use these panelized modules instead? While keeping everything else the same? Then all wiring loads (romex) for the light they are controlling get wired to these locations. Then these modules get connected to the LAN and that is it? And in this setup we can still use the regular APDs, KPDs, and SWs?

What a terrible response. You HAVE to be a dealer (no offense to the dealers on here that are actually helpful). So tell me, the dimmers and switches that I have that are brand new in the box, are the ones you sell better than these? Like are the special in some way? Man, that response irritates me. Just because someone wants to buy there own equipment, and you can't make money off them for every single device, this is your response? And just because a dealer will work with a client and let them source some of there own equipment, pull wires, etc., this is your response? My dealer is great this way. I actually have a business with employess and my guys are pulling all the wire based upon what the dealer has laid out. Then we are providing most of the equipment, which is all brand new by the way, and the dealer is installing and programming. I know this would probably not work for you because you couldn't nickel and dime for everything, but its our arrangement and its going to work out well. We have done it several times before.

Thanks for this. I understand it 50%. I’m not wiring the whole house though in C4, about 75% of and other 25% will be conventional lighting. It’s confusing to me with panelized. So I can use normal APD dimmers or don’t I need that anymore since the module does the dimming?

I guess my other hesitation is I don't know how paneling works. Can you explain how it works and what is all needed besides this? Will the regular APDs and SWs will work with this? And would I just use these in places where I'm having hidden banks? or would the whole system have to be panelized? Right now I have about 30 APDS, 15 KPDs, 10 SWs, and 5 KPs spec'd. About 21 of these are hidden. But some of the hidden ones are front and rear landscape lights, etc. that you would normally hide.

Thanks for all the replies. In my circumstance it’s not a wash. I usually buy all my own equipment. Panelized Equipment is not readily available and usually can only be bought from dealer, so it’s twice is as expensive. This is a new install, and I think I will go with recommendation of the dealer. Everyone on here usually advises to do that anyways. They say to hide switches in a few locations and be done

Yeah me too. Problem is my dealer does it this way all the time and they don't have any issues. I know a lot of other dealers do too. Was just trying to get opinions on if this was ok to do or should I clutter up the walls and locate the switches/dimmers physically in the same room. I brought my hesitation to the attention of my dealer and they say its done all the time. Was just jumping on here to get options to ease my concerns, thats all.

I don't want to do panelized lighting though. I have been trying to say this. My post wasn't asking if I should do regular C4 lighting vs. panelized. I asked if hiding switches is right to do compared to physically placing them in the room. Do you see where I'm coming from? This scenario, I would think, happens in 90% of the C4 installs. Someone that wants to "declutter", I feel would be a pretty common scenario. Is the suggestion to every one these installs to do panelized lighting or your doing something wrong? Man, if that is the case, C4 must sell 100x the panelized lighting systems compared to the individual switches/dimmers? All in all, panelized lighting will cost me 2x to 3x the cost, Have already talked to my electrician about it. I don't know if anyone is considering that aspect too as a reason not to do panelized. When I'm already spending a ton of money on this, I don't want to multiply that by 3. I know some will say that panelized is same price, but it just isn't. For what C4 charges for the panelized items, plus all the dimmers, switches, keypads, its not less money than what you may save on some wire.

Yeah. The most in one location is 9, but they would all be separated into single gang boxes. We could space them apart. Do you suggest that or should we separate into two locations?

I'm still confused. So is this acceptable or not? There are three spots where we are locating multiple "hidden" switches/dimmers. Most of these are to control secondary loads in a room where the primary load is a controlled by a KPD. So my question really is, would it be better to just have the KPD on the wall? Then have the other dimmers and switches that control loads in the same room hidden and then programmed into the KPD? Or would it be better to have a bit more clutter and put those other dimmers and switches physically in that room? I say I'm confused, because these types of scenarios I feel come in to play on almost every C4 install. All the response so far say do panelized? I can't believe that this is the only suggestion and everyone does panelized when they are hiding several control devices.

Thanks for suggestions, but lets just say that this is a normal new construction install that doesn’t do panel lighting. These scenarios I have laid out are very common scenarios that are encountered on almost every install and most don’t do paneled lighting. So what is normally done to keep wall switches to a minimum? Or does nobody do this and most just have a lot of double and triple gangs?

To add, on every C4 install where someone has multiple loads in a room, the suggestion isn’t always to do panelized. So all I’m asking is what y’all do in these situations when you don’t want five switches on the wall. I told my dealer I have to get over the uneasiness of wiring this way (because it’s not normal wiring), but he says they do it all the time. For instance in the guest bedroom there are can lights and a chandelier. The KPD in the room controls the cans, the APD for the chandelier is in a closet in another room. That is just crazy to me, but they say it’s done all the time. Makes me feel uneasy but maybe I just got to get over it?

Sorry, but you are wrong. We have been buying switches and dimmers preparing for the upcoming install, we knew we would need a bunch and what we don’t have we will buy from the dealer, so it’s not backwards. Maybe to you it is because you want everything to be bought from you if you are a dealer, I don’t know. My dealer is working with me. They are not specing to what I already have, but rather to what they feel I need just like any other new construction. But anyways, panelized lighting is not that common with C4 and definitely is not where I’m from. So I’m asking some simple questions and looking for constructive opinions. If you don’t have a useful opinion I ask that you please just don’t respond. Thanks

Thanks for the suggestion but we are not doing panelized lighting. We already have most of the switches, dimmers, etc. purchased. So that is out. Just wondering if this is normal practice?

So I just went over all my lighting with my dealer. I'm confused. I'm not confused on the devices themselves or their functions, I'm confused on comments from this forum vs. what my dealer says. I gathered that the general consensus on here was to never hide switches (APDs, SWs). My dealer likes to hide a lot of these. It really makes me nervous because this is DEFINITELY not conventional wiring. For example in the kitchen, we have two entry points and 5 lighting loads plus motorized blinds. At each entry he is placing a KPD, so this technically takes care of two of the loads, the rest of the loads are to be connected to APDs hidden and located back in the pantry all on one wall. Is this the correct way to do this? Do you all wire this way? There are several spots in the house that will house multiple single gain boxes connected to single loads that will be controlled via a KPD. Most on here say to never hide devices? Is this perfectly acceptable to do?

I don’t know what this means

To add to that last post, does code require you to wire for your current situation or does code require you to meet all future situations. For instance, in this great room, say there was one set of lights. And say an APD was used at one entrance and a SW switch at the other entrance. This is of course a very common 3 way situation. Normally the dimmer is wired to the light and then the switch and dimmer are wired together. Is this how it is still recommended to wire within C4? I ask, because technically you would not have to wire inbetween the dimmer and the switch because they can talk to each other wirelessly. But then, would this meet code if you did not do this? I always just think of the future and say some day the new home owner did not want C4 and wanted regular dimmers and switches. They would go to replace this dimmer and switch and realize that the switch wasn't wired to the dimmer and therefore the 3 way would not work.

I do have another question for you if you have a moment. I've always wondered how people get around code requirements when wiring C4 auxiliary switches like what you just described above. Code requires that in any room where there is two entrances, that there must be a way to turn on the lights from both entrances. This is so you never have to walk through a dark room. So lets say we had a situation where there was a chandelier in the great room. At one entrance you had a APD wired to the chandelier and at other entrance an auxiliary switch for the 3 way. This works to abide by code, but only really works if C4 is used in the home forever. Say some day the home sold and someone wanted to just put regular switches in. Then there would be a switch for the chandelier at one entrance and and no switch connected to the load at the other entrance because there was just an auxiliary switch there? Also, in your scenario above you say to put KPDs everywhere, do you not use many APD dimmers?

Thank you. This was one of the most helpful replies I have ever received.

ALL, I wanted to make a post to possibly get some explanations from you all on the basics of Control4 lighting. I thought I had this all worked out in my head but a spoke to an individual today that sort of confused me. Please try to answer as thorough as you can and it is much appreciated as always. Equipment 1. APD Dimmers - Connected directly to one load and used for dimming, off/on capabilities 2. Keypad dimmers - Connected directly to one load for dimming, off/on capabilities, and also have extra buttons to control other APD Dimmers, SW switches, blinds, scenes, etc. 3. SW Switch - Connected directly to one load for on/off capabilities 4. Auxiliary Keypad - Not connected directly to a load. Used for on/off capabilities. Used in conjunction with a APD Dimmer or Keypad Dimmer 5. Keypad - Not connected directly to any loads. Used to control other APD Dimmers, SW switches, blinds, scenes, etc. Scenarios 1. Whenever a keypad is used to control other APD Dimmers and SW switches, do those dimmers and switches usually have to be hidden somewhere? 2. Say a Great Room has two entrances. At one entrance the customer wants to locate a Keypad because that room will have to chandeliers that they would like to dim, about 10 can lights they they would like to dim, and motorized blinds that they would like to control. If a keypad dimmer was used, would the dimmer itself be connected to lets say the chandeliers for the one load? Then would the can lights would be connected to a hidden APD Dimmer, that in turn the Keypad Dimmer would "talk" to and control? Or would it be best practice to just place the can light APD dimmer next to the keypad dimmer on the wall? I know that isn't the cleanest if looking to have only one switch there, but it does place a local switch to operate the can lights in the room instead of hiding it somewhere And if these switches and dimmers are all hidden, where do you recommend hiding them? In a closet or something like that? Does anyone ever get nervous wiring this way? You essentially are not putting a dimmer/switch in the room for a light you want to control. You are hiding it in another room and solely relying on the keypad to "talk" to it. 3. Same scenario above but say when you are in the kitchen you also want to be able to turn on the chandeliers or the can lights. Would you then use an Auxiliary Keypad that would talk to the keypad in the great room and basically turn on at the last light level setting? Are you then able to dim from the Auxiliary Keypad or is it just an on and off feature? Would you need two Auxiliary keypads in the kitchen then, one for the chandeliers and one for the can lights? Or would it be better just to located two more APD Dimmers there in the kitchen and skip the auxiliary keypads? Either way, do you not wire these direct like you would in a normal three way situation, rather letting the APD dimmer from the kitchen just "talk" to the keypad in the great room to turn off and on the lights? Again, do you worry about not wiring the 3 way direct and just relying on C4?

To All, I have been going over this for days. I can't decide what the best option is. We had a break in at our construction and site and we want to monitor it. We currently have no WIFI there as the home is being built. I have looked into Arlo cameras, Ring, etc. The options for connectivity are either a 4G service from Verizon for each camera (expensive), or utilizing a portable hotspot from Verizon and using WIFI cameras (less expensive). Of the latter, I worry about the service staying connected and not dropping in and out. My ideal situation would be this: have a couple cameras on the exterior of the home along with a couple cameras in the interior that would begin recording when motion is detected. Also, for the interior cameras, to have a siren go off when motion is detected. I'm not familiar with all the unique devices out there so thought I would ask you guys. Shoot, even making up a makeshift alarm panel to accomplish this using some DSC parts or something would work too. just want to keep it simple. I will need it to monitor for several months. I do have power there of course. Thoughts?

Will do. Man that will be alot of Cat6 terminations!! haha

Yeah, I hear you. I'm still the type of person that thinks even though I may be controlling a light via voice, via a programmed keypad, via mobile phone, etc., I still need to have a physical switch in that room located in a spot where a regular switch would go. Not tucked behind in a closet somewhere. Just how I think. I'm going to have to change that thinking on this new construction though because I want to utilize more keypads. So I'm going to have to hide the switches and dimmers that they control.