eggzlot

I have the model of amp prior to the release of Triad branded ones (forget the model #, its a 4 channel).  One of my zones is showing some issues where I get white noise when the music is turned off.

• If I remove the speaker wire to the amp, noise stops (duh)
• I swapped RCA Cables (amp/matrix connection) and white noise stopped until I started up a music stream, listened to a song, and turned it off, now the white noise is back

Signs of an amp going bad?  Something in programming where the zone is just not shutting off?  Something with my Audio Matrix (Using Video Storm CMX audio matrix)?

delete

2 hours ago, wiley said:

Hi there all - is Control 4 connect replacing 4sight over time? I have an older HC controller and it would seem I can continue to use 4Sight but presuming I will be forced off 4 sight over time or the HC controller will be de-supported.

1 hour ago, Topspin14m said:

With Savant can you remote access the system without a subscription? Because if not, a subscription is really required. I know some people don’t use remote access, but this is 2024. That’s a pretty basic feature of any smart home product-most offer that for free.

Also, I had seen $1100 for the largest systems here: https://www.cepro.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Savant-Essentials-One-Page-Dealer-Sales-Sheet-.pdf

Is that wrong/only for commercial jobs?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

remote in is important for whole home set ups.  C4 sells a Core Lite + Halo bundle to do home theaters (which could be a gateway into getting more C4 into the house but for some, its just a standalone offering).  No need to remote in if you just have C4 running a theater.  Who wants to pay $99/year to use a Halo to watch TV in their theater?  

Seems like an oversight to me.

Maybe start any required yearly fees based on devices in the project, or a larger Core 3/5/CA10 type controller.  They are waiving the fee on the CA1, they should probably do the same on the Core Lite/Core 1 (maybe they are and I missed it)

21 minutes ago, Rob21 said:

Got it thank you. So this driver would not be useful for automatically turning on a heated driveway because it would have to run 24 hours in advanced (too long)?

could run longer than 24 hours

Again if the snow is forecasted to fall Wednesday at 6pm, it seems like the driver will go on Tuesday AM (aka the day before)

Use the Wake agent, when you know it is going to snow, set the wake agent to 3-4 (or 5 or 6 hours) prior to the anticipated snow and the heat element will go on.  You can turn it off as needed based on when the snow ends and you feel it wont ice over.

I have tons of things automated in my house, this is the one "manual" thing I deal with a few times a year and the only automation I could find was just putting it on a few hours in advance.

21 minutes ago, TheTechHipster said:

Crestron is the Maserati of the industry.  Amazing system and a work-horse but always going to be a bit more expensive.  (Their new OS is re-aligning a bit though)  Elan/Nice is similar where you need a 3rd party driver for some things like Roku IP control (you can always use IR....) and that would up the cost a bit but that driver has been good throughout the years of Roku development.  URC Totalcontrol or RTI are similar to that but probably priced more similarly to C4

Just give me an old URC mx-980 with RF control at this point

https://www.ebay.com/itm/156033707289?epid=2254339059&hash=item2454556d19:g:CDYAAOSwxk1luD~7&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4Ad2nk1l0WhbO0WXmGOgmydmvqIRdzgUXqt7nwmaY669v7fCF6RWvvmgNTyLwJXtpuf7%2FfQvhsCmB0SuJQRvlypcytHPfKJkrSoTZ7pOkiTWzNjer1C18i2u%2FQ%2BRaxKCjvmTkcVWq3LsKOXD3vDZw6wGylFRQ1g%2FtB2Bzo6ZHM2tsGKuc0PhNmOobhyXEfGJIecSq0HKlFrBTEUr8pW%2Fg%2B34OpRzPW5TifsjuujSVBzKLi8gxwxHU66nPTyyzwtpCFtvV7RZIaIV03OhQSAjOwk0dtMsNd47udgltFVneU9y|tkp%3ABFBMwP-3obFj

2 hours ago, TheTechHipster said:

Savant has way MORE fees than C4.  The ones that I know of that are "fee-less" right now are Crestron, Elan/Nice, URC and RTI.  Everyone is right about RmR becoming a regular everywhere. However we as consumers/dealers shouldn't have to accept it in everyday life.  C4 had fees for app development with 4sight.  Not enough for them.  Elan/Nice outsources most 3rd party drivers to other companies.  This is one way to minimize development costs.  There are extra fees with that but not recurring and when building a system for a customer, predictable.  Now Elan's future after the Nice acquisition...that's another discussion. 

The sad thing is I've seen this game COUNTLESS times in the IT realm over 2 decades.  It's the same playbook all companies use when they become publicly traded. 

1. They start with trying to find new revenue streams to keep that line going up.  (RmR is the darling of the public company and is a logical choice) 

2. Once peak saturation hits they are going to look for other revenue streams which means either buy additional companies or capitalizing on existing.  (Why give dealers margins when you can just sell direct and get ALL of that revenue)

3. After that you want to search for mass adoption (Since you now can sell direct sell direct everywhere)

4. Cut costs at all ends. (Cheapen production, limit R&D, and outsource support.)

5. All of this will end up cheapening the product and now it's time to merge with another company or buy another and start at 1.

 

Both Connect and Assist sets the ground work for the above.  It won't be a fast change but mark my words,  it will happen.  Anyone old enough will remember this playbook with Dell.  The current c-suites will insist the above isn't happening.  It may actually be possible that this isn't their intent, however, you are public and that line needs to go up.

I am an end user, I'd rather pay $149 than $249 or even better, $0.  But I am also keen at sharpening my pencil and I no longer directly pay for any streaming service.  Because eventually they start to rebundle so I get Paramount with my Walmart Plus (which I get for free with my Amex card), I get Netflix, AppleTV and Hulu from TMobile.  It all comes full circle...

I took a look, Crestron sells a ton of licenses, so maybe not RmR but it could be larger 1x fees up front?  Change the hardware, buy a new license aka Tivo?

I doubt anyone from C4 that participates here would answer - but curious for the dealers what % of their customers pay for 4sight versus don't pay for 4sight?  If spending $10,000s > $100,000s on a custom integration of AV, Lights, HVAC, Security, etc I cannot see someone balking over $150 or $250/year?  The only use case I see is a 1 room home theater type - no real need to pay for 4sight because local control is sufficient and don't likely need the other features.

So forcing a $99/year solution I think may deter the Core Lite + Halo bundle being sold to get people "Started" on c4 with a home theater where a dealer hopes that installation could maybe lead to a bigger job.  Its already like $1k for that bundle, adding in $99/year I think will chase people away.

49 minutes ago, Rob21 said:

Thanks for the input. What ended up being too complicated? I was thinking of using it for basic programming such as the programming in the driver docs (image attached). When it is going to snow tomorrow, turn on heated driveway one day before. 

looking at that line of code I don’t know what time they would go on.  if it’s going to snow tomorrow (let’s say Wednesday at 6pm is the forecast) that code looks like sometime on Tuesday it’s going to turn on.  Could be on for more than 24 hours before it snows?
 

For me I found 3-4 hrs in advance fine.  I’d rather not have it on for 10+ hours or more than 24 hours in advance.  
 

4 hours ago, Hertz said:

Just lost my first quote due to the subscription fee. Client told me he won’t use any system that requires a subscription. 
 

Some people don’t care, some would rather die than pay a subscription fee when there’s free alternatives. 

I honestly do not know - so I am asking, but the "alternatives" to C4 (to me) are Crestron, Savant, Elan, URC....do they have required fees?  I am not poking the bear, I am really just inquiring because I am curious.

Are there "free" dealer based solutions that as custom installer would sell?  To me the free things are more amazon/big box store offerings but I could be wrong

2 hours ago, Rob21 said:

I am considering using this solution for my heated driveway. Are you still using this solution? How did everything work out for you?

no it just got too confusing for me.

I kind of use the wake up agent in reverse - but basically I can set a time for when I want an action to happen, that action happens to be putting on the heated stairs.  So we'll watch the weather and get an idea of when the snow is going to come, then I can set the wake agent to ~3-4 hours in advance and it will kick on the heated stairs.  Some manual intervention but I never got the math down with all the variables to use the agent.  And again for heated stairs/driveway it takes a while to get the surface warm, so you need to start hours before the snow event, and that was always my issue, getting it to start in advance.

4 minutes ago, dblessing said:

Fair question - I don't. I can probably live without it and just be sure to go to the DSC Neo keypad in the basement if I need to reset them. But if you neglect to reset them after they go off then they will not be able to go off again so it's kind of a big safety issue. 

For security it may be best NOT to be able to use the c4 app remote and clear. May be more secure to be onsite, confirm you should clear and do it via the NEO

Been on the road map since 2016

https://www.control4.com/blog/366/the-connected-car-meets-the-connected-home/

7 minutes ago, Shoe said:

Thank you. I have two of these and they both have the ethernet module. We'll take a look. I couldn't find any documents on the VS website.

I use the CMX to do doorbell announcements.  Unless I never found out how - there is no ducking.  Audio pauses, doorbell plays, audio stream resumes.  You don’t hear the doorbell over the audio stream 

And why do you need to clear the smokes that often?

11 hours ago, dblessing said:

DSC Neo, specifically. One key missing piece is (so far, at least) neither me nor my dealer can figure out how to control PGM for smoke reset. Any tips?

I have the older model - not neo.  

1 hour ago, dblessing said:

That was entirely my choice. I probably wouldn’t do it again if I knew how lacking the C4 integration was in reality. But otherwise I love that it’s a fairly simple, rock solid, *wired* system. I am not interested in wireless everything and batteries to change. What can I say? I’m a tech guy and wireless is great. Wired is better. 

DSC has fine integration. Been using it for a decade.  What’s missing?

1 hour ago, zaphod said:

Do Mac's have a Remote Desktop Client?  Then why not just use your Mac to RDP into the Windows PC.  You don't really need a keyboard or monitor once it is setup.

Up until ~1 week ago I used to access my Win PC via RD on a Mac without issues.  I moved some things around by my rack, and in my home office, and now the PC resides in my office so I can just use the same monitor + MX Key/Mouse and use the Mac or the WinPC at my desk.  But yeah for a long while I was just using RD.  Its helpful as RD also works on an iPad so I can use Composer HE on my iPad if I am moving around my house testing things

18 hours ago, hank31980 said:

I have just received my little 5.5" Axion touchscreen, which on first inspection looks to be well constructed.

First job was to hook it up to a Poe network cable for Power and Network.

Then added the C4 OS3 APP and all looks good so far, the screen Autorotates depends on physical orientation Landscape/Portrait etc. so thats good and the Intercom seems to work fine.

So so far all good.

 

 

 

Native c4 intercom or via a 3rd party app?

I could be wrong, but OS 2 came out in '09 and OS 3 came out in '19.  10  years is a "long" time I guess but if they came out with OS4 it would be half the life cycle.  Seems fairly quick.

The UI change was the massive move from OS 2 to OS 3 (Flash to Android was already in the works prior to the full OS update), therefore, I don't see such a major revision coming.  We are only on 3.4.x or whatever and I think OS 2 went up to .10 or .11?  No clue what OS 1 went up to...

2 hours ago, Shoe said:

You probably put your socks on and THEN your pants. Probably wait for pizza to cool before eating it. Wait for the heavy kid to skate on the lake before going out...

at least I am still not on WinXP

but for the sake of sanity and happy household, I never have auto updates set.  Even things like my Unifi APs, they aren't on auto updates.  I'll wait for a weekend that the wife is out of the house (or even just for a long day) so I can upgrade and if things go sideways I have time to troubleshoot and fix it before she gets home and wonders why she cannot use a device.

3 hours ago, lippavisual said:

This is a good example of why I always wait about 4-6 months before updating.  I can’t afford to be a Guinea pig for new software.

agree 100%.  Even if you "need" a new feature, I'd still wait a week or so, I mean you didn't have that feature previously, what's another week. 

5 hours ago, ekohn00 said:

I read through the thread, so forgive me if I'm asking something that should have been obvious.....

I got my system 15 years ago. Through the years, I've added components, and my dealer typically upgrades the system for free.

I don't pay anything else, as i don't really use the remote access.

Moving forward, am I going to be forced to get connect? What I read online seems to indicate if I wanted my system upgraded when new features come out (whatever they may be) will Il need connect...  so kinda 3.4 to 4.0???   Outside of that is it the same as usual?   Or can my dealer still upgrade the system?

 

 

Dealer can still upgrade.   Dealer may not even offer the Assist package.  Connect is fairly vague re: new features you won’t be able to get.

You can get Connect and not Assist, and vice versa, they aren’t tied together *yet”

Think of Connect as an “upgrade” to 4sight (and for new users, a requirement whereas 4sight is optional) and Assist is just a hotline to call for basic level 1 support

2 hours ago, dblessing said:

3.4.1. Do I take that to mean it's working for you currently? Tried a brand new browser that I've never used to access Control4. This also worked fine as of last Saturday. 

I had odd issues today with Somfy and TiVo mid day, wonder if there was a cloud outage somewhere for a brief time.  TiVo and Somfy are back to normal.

I've worked with both (I am in IT staffing for 20 years).   and my clients (Fortune 1000 types) have a mix of onshore and offshore.  I am in staffing so this is all I do day in and day out and know the markets fairly well.

The are horror stories of resources here in the US and horror stories for resources across Europe and Asia.  And of course success stories too.

One day maybe I'll publish a book of some of the better stories....