JakeCowan Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Hey guys. Working with a 140 spec home development. Brand new c4 dealer. Going all out on the model home. Switches/dimmers are in, and we will be installing/programming on Monday. Just wondering if there is anything I need to watch out for. This is our very first install and we are fresh out of training. Any thoughts/comments will be greatly appreciated. 2k sq ft home (kind of small). 4 audio zones, running an EA3 in liv room, EA1 in BR, heated floors in bathroom, plan to integrate alexa. Going to spend the weekend coming up with scene concepts. Thanks so much =D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vitali Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 dimmers- attention on load, type ( dimmable ) and power (600w, 300w, etc.), don't over complicate keypads and dimmers with double and triple clicking on the button and programming (avoid if you can) don't promise anything new (you do it first time) before you try and don't show anything new working before you try (5 time with different conditions ) no assumptions with new stuff. try before you talk. or ask here. solid network, no "oh I have a good router and switch, just make it working" - it might be good, just check i any integration with security, cameras,heating/cooling? good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanchow Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 If you need help utilise your TFM. Their job is to hold your hand for the first few jobs until you get the hang of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowitall Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Keep it simple. Would not recommend Alexa in a spec home. Sell c4 for what it is. Lighting/comfort/security/A/V. You can add the bells and whistles later. I'd keep it as native as possible. Last thing you want to do is have to explain why stuff doesn't work to people who have not given you money yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d1amund Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 The tips above are good advice. I feel compelled to repeat, unless you like embarrassing moments explaining why things aren't working reliably, leave Alexa out of the project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VINCELdUB Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 @JakeCowan Hope your pre planning is going well. The advice above is solid. Do not complicate it. Keep it all native. As for scenes, I would recommend a welcome home scene. This usually will include lighting that would be used by a home owner when returning home to a dark cold (or hot) home. A light path from entrance to kitchen or stairwell. And the HVAC to turn on to desired temperature. In a show home setting, I find that the realtor or staff showing the home have a preference to press one button to turn on all of he lighting to maximum to showcase brightness and to have all other hints like blinds and hvac to set to desired value immediately. This simplifies the initial opening in the morning. Secondly, a scene to turn off everything is important for the same reason as stated above. Simplicity to the people showing the home. Some realtors prefer a music option and others do not. I would recommend taking the time to "interview" the staff to ensure they are as happy with your setup as possible. This will be key, they are you gateway into this industry. Good luck, and I hope this helps. Happy Automating! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeCowan Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 On February 17, 2017 at 4:20 PM, vitali said: dimmers- attention on load, type ( dimmable ) and power (600w, 300w, etc.), don't over complicate keypads and dimmers with double and triple clicking on the button and programming (avoid if you can) don't promise anything new (you do it first time) before you try and don't show anything new working before you try (5 time with different conditions ) no assumptions with new stuff. try before you talk. or ask here. solid network, no "oh I have a good router and switch, just make it working" - it might be good, just check i any integration with security, cameras,heating/cooling? good luck Great-room (kitchen/LR) was wired with tons of 3ways that had multiple loads on a switch. Since C4 can't do this we had to cap the ends and install keypads to basically control the same load from both sides of the room as the builder additionally wanted. We have FTTH (Fiber to the home) in place as a white label agreement to all 140 homes in this development. Network will be rock solid as racking and stacking/network/cable is our specialty. Builder wanted to eliminate as many gangs as possible so we were hoping to use some of the dimmable keypads (already installed) to control loads. Wasn't sure if we would need a dim up and a separate dim down button taking up 2 buttons off of the keypad, or if one button could adjust the dim to 30%/50%/75% etc. (Again we are fresh out of training). Builder is patient and understands this is our first system so we aren't worried too much about promises, etc. He's patient and working with us. No security/camera integration. Stat is installed as well as a stat for the floor heaters in master BR that apparently have a driver for C4 ready to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeCowan Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 On February 17, 2017 at 4:57 PM, knowitall said: Keep it simple. Would not recommend Alexa in a spec home. Sell c4 for what it is. Lighting/comfort/security/A/V. You can add the bells and whistles later. I'd keep it as native as possible. Last thing you want to do is have to explain why stuff doesn't work to people who have not given you money yet. Why no Alexa? Complexity of programming? This is a model home we have a couple months to program before we start showing the home to potential buyers . I should note we are also using QMotion automated shades. Systems already been paid for in full by the builder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowitall Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 You serious? 3 people told you Alexa is not reliable and you want to know why we wouldn't recommend? sounds like you are gonna have lighting issues and didn't send your project off to the free lighting design service they offer so have fun figuring it out. I remeber when I knew it all leaving training. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowitall Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 "Tons of 3 ways" "eliminate gangs" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdepaola Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 "Tons of 3 ways" "eliminate gangs" Sounds like a party Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VINCELdUB Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 It will be a bit of a learning curve, knowitall is right, get the lighting design service to help you out. Also, Alanchow is right too, contact your TFM. He/she will help you get things rolling correctly. CONTROL4 is a for profit company and they want nothing more than to make sure he dealers are well prepared. Use he tools they provide. My 0.02 Happy Automating! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VINCELdUB Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 It will be a bit of a learning curve, knowitall is right, get the lighting design service to help you out. Also, Alanchow is right too, contact your TFM. He/she will help you get things rolling correctly. CONTROL4 is a for profit company and they want nothing more than to make sure he dealers are well prepared. Use he tools they provide. My 0.02 Happy Automating! Apparently my keyboard doesn't like "t" Happy Automating! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d1amund Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Why no Alexa? Complexity of programming? This is a model home we have a couple months to program before we start showing the home to potential buyers . I should note we are also using QMotion automated shades. Systems already been paid for in full by the builder. Because it's a DIY-type product with very little actual use in the real world yet with C4? Because you have to rely on two different cloud servers, from two separate companies, to be fully operational and talking to each other 100% for it to work correctly? Because naming conventions in your voice commands are still hit or miss? Because it relies on your network to be setup properly? Because it will be damn near impossible to get every salesperson or builder rep to use the correct wording every time with the voice scenes? Need more reasons? There is no more complexity to the programming of the voice scenes than there is any other programming in C4. If you can program a keypad button...it's the same thing. I would, again, recommend against using Alexa (or any other new voice activated or Jetson-like shit) if you want your install and presentation to be fully functional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VINCELdUB Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Well said^ Happy Automating! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowitall Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Please send me the patient, understanding, up front paying builders number too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vitali Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 9 hours ago, JakeCowan said: Great-room (kitchen/LR) was wired with tons of 3ways that had multiple loads on a switch. Since C4 can't do this we had to cap the ends and install keypads to basically control the same load from both sides of the room as the builder additionally wanted. We have FTTH (Fiber to the home) in place as a white label agreement to all 140 homes in this development. Network will be rock solid as racking and stacking/network/cable is our specialty. Builder wanted to eliminate as many gangs as possible so we were hoping to use some of the dimmable keypads (already installed) to control loads. Wasn't sure if we would need a dim up and a separate dim down button taking up 2 buttons off of the keypad, or if one button could adjust the dim to 30%/50%/75% etc. (Again we are fresh out of training). Builder is patient and understands this is our first system so we aren't worried too much about promises, etc. He's patient and working with us. No security/camera integration. Stat is installed as well as a stat for the floor heaters in master BR that apparently have a driver for C4 ready to go. "Great-room (kitchen/LR) was wired with tons of 3ways that had multiple loads on a switch. Since C4 can't do it" ???? I'm missing the point.... C4 has 3 way switches or 4 and 5 way switches (I did once 6 switches in very long hallway), ask me if you have any questions about it. For dimmable keypads I found it better to use 2 buttons. one up and one down, toggle buttons can confuse people. engraving - good option, but after client agreed with programming it is not bad idea to have some lighting scenes: all off, welcome, good night (usually I make it working with security system), dining, party whatever... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vitali Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 2 hours ago, d1amund said: Because it's a DIY-type product with very little actual use in the real world yet with C4? Because you have to rely on two different cloud servers, from two separate companies, to be fully operational and talking to each other 100% for it to work correctly? Because naming conventions in your voice commands are still hit or miss? Because it relies on your network to be setup properly? Because it will be damn near impossible to get every salesperson or builder rep to use the correct wording every time with the voice scenes? Need more reasons? There is no more complexity to the programming of the voice scenes than there is any other programming in C4. If you can program a keypad button...it's the same thing. I would, again, recommend against using Alexa (or any other new voice activated or Jetson-like shit) if you want your install and presentation to be fully functional. yeeee. it is hard to explain anything to sales person "Yep, I got it, all good, so easy" 5 min after you left " aaa , you didn't explain how to turn on lights, and music and ....why there are no tv channels on touchscreen?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VINCELdUB Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Please send me the patient, understanding, up front paying builders number too Don't see these very often. Happy Automating! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowitall Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 9 minutes ago, vitali said: "Great-room (kitchen/LR) was wired with tons of 3ways that had multiple loads on a switch. Since C4 can't do it" ???? I'm missing the point.... C4 has 3 way switches or 4 and 5 way switches (I did once 6 switches in very long hallway), ask me if you have any questions about it. Yea. Totally missed this. What can't c4 lighting do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownbatsbreath Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 If there will be realtors/salespeople hosting showings here, get in contact with them. Find out how they want lighting, music, and video to be while they're showing the home. Keep it insanely simple for them to turn it all on, and all off when they're done. They wont be interested in selling your product, so don't expect them to care about learning it. If it's simple for them to use, they won't become frustrated in front of potential customers, and sometimes in these model homes that's enough to make you look good. Also don't forget to find out how the builder wants the exterior lit up at night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeCowan Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 Thanks for all of the feedback guys. I am actually the sales person that will be meeting each prospecting homeowner there. There is one realtor (the builders wife) who will be showing the home initially. In the event that a homeowner is going forward with a purchase, they will be scheduled for a "technical meeting" with me, where I will pitch and walk them through the C4 system as well as blind options. We signed up for Qmotion (still un easy about the pricing but we are going to try to see how it goes), in an attempt to sell them automated shades, and if they decline, hopefully manual shades. Customers won't be restricted to Qmotion shades so we are unsure of how well they will sell. In regards to Alexa there is literally only 2 maybe 3 people who will be utilizing the system in front of a potential buyer, and as previously stated our network will be operating off of a 1gig up/down solider fiber backbone. Our network is commercial grade in these homes. In regards to the lighting C4 was unable to handle a switch that carried 2 separate loads, basically to light switches operating to different loads on the same switch, I hope that makes sense. They had these all throughout the house, and they were all 3 ways, meaning an additional switch with 2 additional toggles was also operating those loads on the opposite end of the room. It took some redesigning but we figured it out with dimmers/keypads to be able to still control the same loads from different areas in the room, we just had to add additional gangs to put in additional dimmers, and then we are using keypads on the opposite end, in essence eliminating the 3way. I hope I stated that correctly as well. We have been working with this builder for almost 3 years preparing to begin this project as the city was dragging their feet and the neighbors were fighting the exact type of build out. It truly is a once in a lifetime opportunity which is the only reason we became dealers. It was an amazing opportunity and platform to launch as dealers, we wouldn't have without this. These aren't high end customers, they are 2k sq ft 350k-500k homes, which in our area are expensive for the square footage. Thank you for the feedback on Alexa. We will hold off on the interim. 16 hours ago, knowitall said: You serious? 3 people told you Alexa is not reliable and you want to know why we wouldn't recommend? sounds like you are gonna have lighting issues and didn't send your project off to the free lighting design service they offer so have fun figuring it out. I remeber when I knew it all leaving training. Lol I'm not sure what the hostility is about here. I'm simply asking "why" because I'm not the only decision maker at this company and I'm trying to gather information so that I can be informed. I wouldn't be here asking questions if I thought I knew it all. When multiple people say "don't this do this" without an explanation, I'd like the explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeCowan Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 the autocorrect is real Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mntneer Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Build as much as you can, program as much as you can, at your shop. Don't overthink the "scenes", as so often many go unused. Use the C4 lighting design service and go over it with the builder to simply the lighting plan. You can eliminate 3 ways which can actually lead to a "saving" on the electrical side. It also wouldn't hurt to go over house wiring in general with the electrician, as to prevent any issues with your low voltages, or them running too much out of a single gang box, or them wiring lighting circuits using switch leg drops. Alexa can be... "fun" ... it can also be a pain, aside from simple commands, don't think you're going to do everything with it. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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