Microsoft Research wants to automate your house, introduces HomeOS

[tebery]

Let me know if there is anything important in that 10 minute video.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/30/microsoft-research-home-automation-homeOS/

[chesterwilson]

Control4's value just plummeted with that video. If that's Microsoft's answer to home automation, well then, there is no reason apple has to go out and buy Control4.

[pstuart]

Apple is already working on their own version. More to come in the summer, probably out in October. Just speculation, nothing more.

Google is also working on IP based devices as well.

HA will come to the masses, just wait till they require IP controlled CFL or LED light bulbs and the government controls when you can turn them on.

The book 1984 was just a bit early... The future is now. "The Party’s surveillance tactics and technology are so advanced that even the smallest twitch can betray a rebellious spirit."

Ironic when you think it was a bunch of hacker rebels that started these companies, and now they strive to control that rebellious spirit in others.

[chesterwilson]

It will be interesting to see how google and apple can do in HA. It will be tough to do DIY considering there are a gazillion variables in installation.

[ILoveC4]

This looks really cool.

Edit: I just finished the video...super cool stuff. This will have a HUGE impact if they roll it out. I can only imagine the user base and some of the cool apps/functionality that would be built with it being completely open.

[ILoveC4]

That video was from March 2011...I wonder has happened since then.

[ILoveC4]

Good info here if you have a few minutes to read...interesting opinions...I think they're spot on (what I read).

http://research.microsoft.com/pubs/157701/homeos.pdf

[pstuart]

From what I could find out from a few friends... Its currently in beta in about 6 test homes for the last 6 months.

All "development" is done in C# in Visual Studio, so basically the free version of Visual Express "should" work.

No idea what the devices are using to talk to each other, but in theory, gateways could be developed to bridge to zigbee and other HA profiles.

Has a kick ass security model, something that is severely lacking in almost all HA solutions out there. Think Active Directory for the home.

Can use your phone as your key... NFC (near field communications) and/or bluetooth can be used to detect what room you are in and set your preferences from that device.

There is no testing of Kinect integration that is currently being publicly tested, but I am assuming they are working on the voice and hands free navigation on Xbox's and other 3rd party integration.

Cost will be the biggest challenge... From what I can gather, they are looking at various 3rd parties for the devices, light switches/dimmers, cameras, thermostats, etc...

No immediate plans to commercialize, this is just a Microsoft Research project only... Commercialization may happen down the road, but way too many technical and cost barriers exist today for widespread adoption.

My two cents, is Microsoft is ready for the eventually HA push, but doesn't want to be the first of the big three (Apple, Google, Microsoft) and wants to see what new standards might emerge. Apple was one of the firsts with WIFI in a residential and commercial applications, but didn't invent the spec. I suspect Apple will jump in first, maybe this fall and wide spread mass adoption by 2018, if ever.

[wappinghigh]

I'd never put in a Microsoft HA setup. I don't care how cheap it was

Computer's crashing, and software infected with security breaches and viruses on a PC are one thing

But on a computer running your home? Forget it.

The beauty about control4 is, it exists and runs beyond OSX and Windows

But at the end of the day, with the big boy's working on this sort of HA integration, it seems inevitable to me, Control4 will simply have to change the way they do things

Easier software upgrades. Self installed apps and drivers etc etc etc. You've heard it all from me before

Once Microsoft and Apple release these sort of solutions, there will be no going back

For Control4 it will be change, or die

So I'm actually encouraged by these sort of developments.

With this sort of competition, using our Control4 platform can't help but get easier and better...

If Control4 can manage the change OK, I think they will survive. Why not? They have a huge global niche dealer network to on sell and help end users.

They have a robust and fabulous product right now.

[wappinghigh]

Let me know if there is anything important in that 10 minute video.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/30/microsoft-research-home-automation-homeOS/

From now on. Never buy ANY new TV/Receiver/Camera or any other electrical product you want automated, unless it has IP control

[wappinghigh]

Control4's value just plummeted with that video. If that's Microsoft's answer to home automation, well then, there is no reason apple has to go out and buy Control4.

Was there ever a reason Apple would look at Control4? Surely if they wanted to *really* enter the HA market. Right now?..it would be way simpler to go out and buy Savant. It's already OSX based...

[RyanE]

But at the end of the day, with the big boy's working on this sort of HA integration, it seems inevitable to me, Control4 will simply have to change the way they do things

A little early to be predicting any traction by a MS/Apple/Google HA solution, and extremely early predicting how this will force Control4 ("simply have to") to change business models.

The Tinkerbell Theory doesn't apply here.

Sure, if one of the big boys were to enter the market, it possibly would change things, but IMHO, it's difficult for a software-only, platform-centric solution to compete.

I think they will survive. Why not? They have a huge global niche dealer network to on sell and help end users.

The problem is, those same dealers aren't likely to keep selling and helping end users if they don't make sufficient profit from doing so (they have overhead).

i.e. 'going all self-installed apps and drivers' doesn't leave much on the bone for dealers to do.

Rampant speculation, like most data, expands to fill all available space.

RyanE

[wappinghigh]

The Tinkerbell Theory doesn't apply here.

RyanE

No it doesn't. But surely a "plan B" would have to be ready to roll...

Things can move very quickly in the tech world as we all know.

I agree with everything you say BTW

[pstuart]

Ryan, what makes you think Microsoft, Google and/or Apple are software only solutions? Most of what I've seen and read are hardware based solutions.

Microsoft Research solution is all hardware and an open programming interface using C# with complete device interoperability and built in shopping tools. Your phone, your xbox, your tv, your cameras, your computer, your devices. I'd call that hardware.

But lets face it, its the software that makes this all work. Control4 is missing so many basic programming "features" in ComposerPro. Heck I can't even copy and paste subsections of programming without having to crack open the XML project and doing it by hand. As a native C# developer, I welcome the opportunity for what a Microsoft C# open environment could do for driver development, user integration, custom interfaces and overall user experience.

Control4 UI is starting to feel really dated. The user experience is good, the product is stable for the most part, but the weakest component is the dealer model, IMO. There are good dealers I'm sure, but if you buy the system from a dealer and that dealer goes out of business, you are stuck having to find another dealer to take over your account and start from scratch with very little add-on value. Not that any of the big hitters are going to solve this issue any time soon, but Microsoft's HomeOS goes a long way to a plug and play reality. It is a PITA to recommission a mesh network, rebuild a corrupt project or modify a subpar IP driver and takes hours to days to do it. Of course, any dealer is willing to charge the end user for all this time, when most of these things should be better, faster or easier to accomplish.

Open platforms from big hitters will force Control4 to streamline, adapt or die. I just hope they all focus on interoperatability at a HA profile level and can take over the controller role someday. If that happens, and I doubt it will, then it will be a good day for the consumer and a bad day for dealers and legacy HA providers.

Just my 2 cents... Glad to see that Microsoft Research is letting a bit out of the bag and test the waters, I still don't think the masses are ready for HA just yet. Heck with the housing market the way it is in the US, someone with a completely portable HA system could have a large audience quickly

[wappinghigh]

Maybe I'm daft.

I can't actually see why dealers can't still flourish with small tweeks to Composer allowing self install of (some) drivers and firmware upgrades.

Why couldn't there be a small "tag" in the driver or software that feeds back a financial retainer to the dealer, every time this was done by an end user. Sort of like the "financial planner" or insurance model?

I don't get this

I don't understand why simple little changes that could make life easier for all of us, would starve dealers. I've never wanted this to happen. I actually want them to earn *more* money..

More volume, (with less work) = more income. And more time to sign up somebody new and add them to "the gravy train".. That should be "the model" the dealers should be pushing. Value adding for their clients and themselves, and getting a little bit on the side every time an existing user does something straightforward themselves.. But not wasting their (the dealers) time on menial tasks. Let the customer do this (and give a little bit of a kick back to the dealer everytime they do it)

[ILoveC4]

Maybe I'm daft.

I can't actually see why dealers can't still flourish with small tweeks to Composer allowing self install of (some) drivers and firmware upgrades.

Why couldn't there be a small "tag" in the driver or software that feeds back a financial retainer to the dealer, every time this was done by an end user. Sort of like the "financial planner" or insurance model?

I don't get this

I don't understand why simple little changes that could make life easier for all of us, would starve dealers. I've never wanted this to happen. I actually want them to earn *more* money..

More volume, (with less work) = more income. And more time to sign up somebody new and add them to "the gravy train".. That should be "the model" the dealers should be pushing. Value adding for their clients and themselves,

and getting a little bit on the side every time an existing user does something straightforward themselves.. But not wasting their (the dealers) time on menial tasks. Let the customer do this (and give a little bit of a kick back to the

dealer everytime they do it)

And another thread down the "Control4 needs to change their model" path. Not that I don't agree with some of it, but this is getting old.

[wappinghigh]

Ok....Well they don't need to change anything.

Let's just sit here and say things are 100% rosy. And pretend that Microsoft and Apple will never enter the market

And all continue to live in cloud fairy land..

I'm simply trying to explore how it could be done to keep everyone happy

[pstuart]

And I'm hoping that one of the big guys buys Control4

Or at least adopts Zigbee Pro as their standard...

Or at minimum, someone figures out a bridge to Zigbee Pro devices, then we will be essentially future proof.

Let's face it, a Visual Studio C# environment compared to ComposerPro is like comparing a bicycle to a Ferrari, complaining about the gas mileage when you paid a ton for the bicycle and need to commute 20 miles in 90 degree weather and the bicycle tires, chain and brakes need to be replaced by an authorized dealer... Hmm, how much further can I take this metaphor...?

[RyanE]

And I'm hoping that one of the big guys buys Control4

Or not.

Or at least adopts Zigbee Pro as their standard...

Or at minimum, someone figures out a bridge to Zigbee Pro devices, then we will be essentially future proof.

Complaining about recommissioning a mesh, which is *part* of the ZigBee standard (i.e. a single coordinator, if that coordinator is replaced or completely reconfigured, you have to recommission) doesn't make a lot of sense to me...

Let's face it, a Visual Studio C# environment compared to ComposerPro is like comparing a bicycle to a Ferrari, <snip> Hmm, how much further can I take this metaphor...?

I'll take it a bit further. I've done *tons* of development in C#, and quite a bit in Control4's various tools and environments.

Control4 I'd say is more like a motorcycle that gets you where you want to go, with a small amount of maintenance and some quirks. Yes, you may have to replace a chain, change the oil, and replace bulbs from time to time. Some of the maintenance you can do yourself, some of it you would be better off having an authorized repair center do the work. Where that line is, I don't particularly care to argue.

Visual Studio and C# is more like your own personal motorcycle shop, where when you want to go for a ride, you have to put all the parts together first. Yes, you can make a much nicer motorcycle, but for basic transportation, you don't want to have to do that every time. Unless you work for OC Choppers, though, your motorcycle may have 3 1/2 wheels and only 1 gear.

Compile, fix your bugs, compile again, fix some more bugs, compile again. Oh, and download to the equipment every time. Been there.

The Visual Studio C# model is actually a lot more like the AMX/Crestron model, and personally, I'll stick with ComposerPro and Control4's Director/Driver architecture. Yes, it has it's warts, but for getting things up and running quickly (which is most of the battle from an installer's perspective), it's not a bad tradeoff.

RyanE

[RyanE]

BTW, I totally agree with you, the ComposerPro custom programming is pretty clunky (cut&paste suck, etc.), and could certainly use a re-write. That's not news to anyone inside or outside of Control4.

I have no doubt it'll happen at some point, but I couldn't say when.

RyanE

[RyanE]

Ok....Well they don't need to change anything.

Let's just sit here and say things are 100% rosy. And pretend that Microsoft and Apple will never enter the market

And all continue to live in cloud fairy land..

Straw Man argument.

I never said nothing needed to change, or that it wouldn't ever change.

If the market changes, Control4 certainly could change. However, Control4's business model has worked fairly well so far.

RyanE

[chesterwilson]

BTW, I totally agree with you, the ComposerPro custom programming is pretty clunky (cut&paste suck, etc.), and could certainly use a re-write. That's not news to anyone inside or outside of Control4.

I have no doubt it'll happen at some point, but I couldn't say when.

RyanE

Agreed, looking forward to removing the dealer authentication.

[thecodeman]

I'd never put in a Microsoft HA setup. I don't care how cheap it was

Computer's crashing, and software infected with security breaches and viruses on a PC are one thing

You guys still get viruses on Windows? What are you opening in your email/sites do you visit?

[chesterwilson]

I'd never put in a Microsoft HA setup. I don't care how cheap it was

Computer's crashing' date=' and software infected with security breaches and viruses on a PC are one thing[/quote']

You guys still get viruses on Windows? What are you opening in your email/sites do you visit?

He's been looking up "ComposerPro keygen"

[ILoveC4]

Ok....Well they don't need to change anything.

Let's just sit here and say things are 100% rosy. And pretend that Microsoft and Apple will never enter the market

And all continue to live in cloud fairy land..

Straw Man argument.

I never said nothing needed to change' date=' or that it wouldn't ever change.

If the market changes, Control4 certainly could change. However, Control4's business model has worked fairly well so far.

RyanE[/quote']

Alex, I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice if some things changed. I'm just saying if we want to read that we can read 1 of 50 other threads that turned in to that same complaining.

The worst part, and what makes it so frustrating, is that NOBODY HERE CAN DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT! It's like yelling at a deaf person. You can yell all you want, the person won't hear you...just everyone around will get sick of listening to you yell.