when controller goes down, should the switches still work as switches?

[groomden]

after repeated system crashes at my house I've noticed something. when my hc300 crashes, I lose control of light switches. Is this their normal behavior or is something buggy? the reason I ask is that i have a completely separate system through a different dealer that installed some Lutron shades for me, and he said that by default, a full system failure in a Lutron lighting package would leave all switches still controlling loads.

to be clear, I have C4 switches, not Lutron. They DO NOT work when the system goes down. Is this their normal behavior or is there a programming bug?

Thanks!

Dennis

[ILoveC4]

The actual switches and dimmers will still control the load, but the keypads won't.

Lutron is a complete independent system, so it would work regardless of Control4 working.

Repeated system crashes...really? I have had two system crashes, and both were in 2005/2006...when the company was brand new. Even then, I wouldn't really call it a "crash"...just more of a hiccup. I have a pretty big system, and it's rock solid.

[groomden]

mine has completely locked up 3 times since February. when it locks up it first gets really slow to respond to keypad presses or use of the remote, then an hour or so later it freezes completely. lights will not change from whatever state they were last in. keypads either keep whatever last led was on or have the top and bottom go on. no tv. it has been a very frustrating time.

a little over 2 weeks ago my sonos stopped working through C4 -- hopefully today is the day my dealer can finally make it back out. for some reason he couldn't fix it remotely. depending how this latest hiccup goes I'm considering ditching my little system entirely. not entirely based on the product, but on the very flaky service i'm receiving after the sale.

[groomden]

just checked out your website -- you had a post on March 12th about notifying you when your HC300 'hangs'. this sounds like a crash to me or is that a different situation?

[ILoveC4]

just checked out your website -- you had a post on March 12th about notifying you when your HC300 'hangs'. this sounds like a crash to me or is that a different situation?

You referring this post I take it: http://www.c4diy.com/get-notified-when-home-controller-rebooted-successfully/

???

If so, look at signature at the bottom of the post... "- Eric B".

Eric B, is not me, but another user who had an interest in posting some information and product reviews on the site for public consumption.

I hadn't noticed that, and I haven't had that problem.

[groomden]

the dealer for Lutron was saying that if a Lutron controller goes down, or even gets physically removed from the house, the switches will still control loads. he was surprised that my C4 system doesn't control loads when it hangs and that that could be a real issue when its time to sell the house.

[ILoveC4]

the dealer for Lutron was saying that if a Lutron controller goes down, or even gets physically removed from the house, the switches will still control loads. he was surprised that my C4 system doesn't control loads when it hangs and that that could be a real issue when its time to sell the house.

Like I said, the actual switch or dimmer will still control the load. The way 3+way lighting (multiple "switches" controlling one light) works within C4 is two there is one actual switch/dimmer that controls the load, and the other devices are keypads which are bound to the switch/dimmer via programming. There is no physical connection between that keypad and the light. Control4 tells the dimmer/switch what to do when the keypad is interfaced. If the Control4 system is down, it can't tell the dimmer/switch what to do.

Lutron must be wired differently, because the way the Control4 stuff is wired that is physically impossible.

[ichbinbose]

put a UPS on your controller and it will prevent or at least reduce the issue

[groomden]

there is, UPS installed after the first crash:-) 16 port network switch, cable company stuff, Tivo and Sonos are also on it.

[ILoveC4]

put a UPS on your controller and it will prevent or at least reduce the issue

Yeah, I have always had my gear on UPS units. I also have always had new homes, in new subdivisions, that have consistent power. It's very rare for us to have a power outage...probably due to the fact that all power lines are underground so they aren't damaged in inclement weather, car crashes, etc...

[groomden]

none of the crashes have been related to power outages or storms in the area but thought that the ups couldn't hurt for the rare event.

[ILoveC4]

none of the crashes have been related to power outages or storms in the area but thought that the ups couldn't hurt for the rare event.

So, do you have your system on UPS/Power Conditioner?

I don't doubt that trying to run a 2.0 project on a single HC300 would potentially cause issues...that controller has almost no processing power. Less so than the cell phone I had 3 years ago.

What controller(s) do you have in your project and what OS version are you running?

[groomden]

yes, a single hc300 on a ups.

Navigator version: 2.2.2.124165,

Director: 10.0.1.9

Dir version: 2.2.1.171726

Media ver: 2.2.1.171726

[thegreatheed]

the dealer for Lutron was saying that if a Lutron controller goes down, or even gets physically removed from the house, the switches will still control loads. he was surprised that my C4 system doesn't control loads when it hangs and that that could be a real issue when its time to sell the house.

If the Lutron controller goes down, the Lutron keypads stop working just like Control4 keypads stop working.

Lutron light switches and dimmers would continue to function, just like Control4 dimmers and switch would continue to function even if the system went down.

[CFUG]

^^2.2.2.124165?? When did that come out?

[ILoveC4]

^^2.2.2.124165?? When did that come out?

That's what I was thinking...

[C4RVA]

Actually I remember that I had a few switches that were unbound to allow multi tap input that would not function if the controller was off. Might not be your issue but there are ways that a switch can not function when the controller or mesh network are down.

[thecodeman]

^^2.2.2.124165?? When did that come out?

He's looking at the navigator version for the iPhone/iPad. His system is on 2.2.1

[groomden]

yeppers:-)

[groomden]

so here's the rub. i'm sure that i ONLY have C4 switches and dimmers, but when my system goes down all switches and dimmers are down. now i haven't checked every switch location to confirm if maybe a particular switch that's actually carrying the load switches, but i do know that to sell the house each switch location HAS to work or it will fail an inspection quite easily and would have to be fixed for a new buyer to move in (assuming they are carrying a mortgage). So i'm still not clear as to if my C4 switches/dimmers should all be working even with the controller down? I have 2 areas in the house where there are 4 switches controlling one area of lighting.

thanks

[ILoveC4]

so here's the rub. i'm sure that i ONLY have C4 switches and dimmers, but when my system goes down all switches and dimmers are down. now i haven't checked every switch location to confirm if maybe a particular switch that's actually carrying the load switches, but i do know that to sell the house each switch location HAS to work or it will fail an inspection quite easily and would have to be fixed for a new buyer to move in (assuming they are carrying a mortgage). So i'm still not clear as to if my C4 switches/dimmers should all be working even with the controller down? I have 2 areas in the house where there are 4 switches controlling one area of lighting.

thanks

To me it's pretty simple. When you sell the house either: A) Leave a controller behind to handle the lighting, or $2 to $5 per switch and replace them with conventional switches, and take the old ones with you/sell them.

Lots of homes are bought and sold that have Control4 (just sold one myself) and lots of those buyers get a mortgage. It works fine.

If I were you I'd be more concerned about what I could do to get my system stable.

[ILoveC4]

^^2.2.2.124165?? When did that come out?

He's looking at the navigator version for the iPhone/iPad. His system is on 2.2.1

I see. I don't own an iDevice, so I was unaware that it was carrying that Navigator version. The rest of the system certainly is NOT.

[pharmdsmith]

Where you have 4 switches controlling one light. 3 of those are keypads and won't work if c4 is down. The other is a dimmer or switch and will work if c4 is down unless the unattach load setting has been checked in composer.

[thegreatheed]

so here's the rub. i'm sure that i ONLY have C4 switches and dimmers, but when my system goes down all switches and dimmers are down. now i haven't checked every switch location to confirm if maybe a particular switch that's actually carrying the load switches, but i do know that to sell the house each switch location HAS to work or it will fail an inspection quite easily and would have to be fixed for a new buyer to move in (assuming they are carrying a mortgage). So i'm still not clear as to if my C4 switches/dimmers should all be working even with the controller down? I have 2 areas in the house where there are 4 switches controlling one area of lighting.

thanks

That cannot be true. You must be mistaken somewhere. Also, to pass inspection (at least in Utah), we would normally setup the lighting system, so 3-way lights worked. Each keypad location does not have to be able to work independently to pass inspection. Just about every lighting system on the market cannot do this.

If you take a control4 dimmer out of the box and attach it to a light in a home where a Control4 controller has NEVER been installed, the dimmer will operate the light. The dimmers and switches work on their own. Keypads do not work without the system installed and online.

[ILoveC4]

so here's the rub. i'm sure that i ONLY have C4 switches and dimmers' date=' but when my system goes down all switches and dimmers are down. now i haven't checked every switch location to confirm if maybe a particular switch that's actually carrying the load switches, but i do know that to sell the house each switch location HAS to work or it will fail an inspection quite easily and would have to be fixed for a new buyer to move in (assuming they are carrying a mortgage). So i'm still not clear as to if my C4 switches/dimmers should all be working even with the controller down? I have 2 areas in the house where there are 4 switches controlling one area of lighting.

thanks[/quote']

That cannot be true. You must be mistaken somewhere. Also, to pass inspection (at least in Utah), we would normally setup the lighting system, so 3-way lights worked. Each keypad location does not have to be able to work independently to pass inspection. Just about every lighting system on the market cannot do this.

If you take a control4 dimmer out of the box and attach it to a light in a home where a Control4 controller has NEVER been installed, the dimmer will operate the light. The dimmers and switches work on their own. Keypads do not work without the system installed and online.

I just experienced that with my new house. All the dimmers, switches, keypads, etc... were installed long before any C4 controllers were present. These were brand new products that had never seen a project or anything. They worked fine.