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If you are a Control4 dealer, you may want to re-read your dealer agreement.

RyanE

The beauty of the internet he can be anonymous. We won't rehash the entire business model of Control 4 being "Controlling". In this day and age of DYI and consumers wanting more rights for their hard earned money it seems Control 4 and Crestron might be the only ones left that are trying to tie people's hands behind their backs and force dealers on them after installs of $100-$150 per hour.

Gone is the day companies can afford to only cater to the wealthy that wipe their asses with $100 bills. Basically what Control 4 does is KILLS any kind of aftermarket equipment because the avg Joe looking for used controllers/remotes etc does not want to or can not afford to pay insane inflated costs for dealers to come out and install and have said person married to them for any device they might want to change or move.

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I'm not "just a programmer" for Control4, but I'm not in management, either.

Why would I not care about business operations? "business operations" pay my salary and benefits.

Why would I not want dealers to abide by the agreements they've signed?

You can argue till you're blue in the face that you think what Control4 does is wrong, and that they should go direct, or that dealers are not necessary, etc., but the fact remains, that is Control4's business model, and it's served Control4 well to this point.

If Control4 chooses to change it's business model to allow more DIY, or to allow wider Internet Sales, etc., that's also fine by me, but it's not necessarily the current situation.

RyanE

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Just an FYI, I am going to be buying a part of Control4 (sharespost).

Please let me know what kind of changes you would like to see. I will probably be activating composer pro for everyone and changing the main website to C4DIY. I haven't decided what I'm going to do with RyanE yet ;)

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Don't want to argue any of that really... Their company, they can run it as they feel fit.

Personally to me a sale is sale as long as I sell to my dealers at a profit I don't care what they sell it for or how they sell it, my goal is for ME to make a profit. It's the dealers job to figure out how THEY will make a profit.

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Don't want to argue any of that really... Their company, they can run it as they feel fit.

Personally to me a sale is sale as long as I sell to my dealers at a profit I don't care what they sell it for or how they sell it, my goal is for ME to make a profit. It's the dealers job to figure out how THEY will make a profit.

Thats a interesting business philosophy, how is that working out for you?

I mean I beleive this is your accurate feelings, but when you talk to your dealers, (for instance on a conference call), do you tell them "Hey, baby. I got mine now go get yours!"

Couple of questions.

1 Do your dealers appreciate your attitude?

2 Do they feel that your attitude makes them better salesmen of your product?

3 Have any of your dealers ever asked that maybe you be concerned with their profit?

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't want to argue about this stuff either, but you business plan rocks!

Sign up dealers, give 0 support.

Cool

Brent

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Personally to me a sale is sale as long as I sell to my dealers at a profit I don't care what they sell it for or how they sell it, my goal is for ME to make a profit. It's the dealers job to figure out how THEY will make a profit.

I wouldn't have guessed, with that forum name... :)

This is totally my *personal* opinion, but I think Control4 *may* understand the Custom Install (CI) channel a bit better than you do.

In my experience in this channel (which is nearly 20 years), manufacturers who have clear sales channels, who support those channels and ensure their dealers are all on as level playing field as possible are the manufacturers who retain dealers, and grow market share.

CI channel manufacturers who have tried to cut the dealers entirely out of the loop have either come back to having protected-channel products, or have gone out of business.

Dealers are Control4's life blood, Control4's 'face' to the world and end users.

Will it *always* be that way? Probably not, but I don't know (and I don't think anyone does).

It's a double-edged sword, as many have mentioned, as bad dealers can hurt as much as good ones help, but it *is* a nice, sharp sword.

RyanE

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My job is not to give dealers THIER business model or dictate how THEY make a profit. My job is to make a product people want thus giving the dealers something they can sell. We support the product, we don't hold your hand and treat you like a little kid telling you what you can or can't do with YOUR business. In the end your job is to make money, my job is to make money. The more we all sell the more money we all make, that's what investors care about that's what my banker cares about.

My job is also not to tell other companies how to run their business unless I'm a stake holder which in this case I am not, unfortunatly. I think C4 has a strong future in front of them despite their business model. In the end they have done their job, they made a product I wanted, they are just missing out on a lot of other sales and opportunities. But that's their perogative.

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Dealers are Control4's life blood, Control4's 'face' to the world and end users.

No your life blood are the end users... Doesn't matter how good or bad your dealers are if the end user doesn't want the product. Also I'm not advocating a DIY solution, I'm advocating giving dealers to freedom to sell however they want. If a dealer wanted to buy a product from you then sell off an Internet store letting the customer hook it up and the dealer does the programming, let him. If he can make money, pay his bills, and you make money it's a win all around. Think of all the areas in this country with no dealer presence you could be selling that your not

Price controls help prop up dealers who don't know how to run a business and penalizes a dealer who is a strong business man.

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Im starting to think Ryan is more then just some programmer for C4. You care WAY to much about business operations.

OK very interseting to learn about your business practices, Mr. Money

Do you have your employees go out on a public forum and critisize your dealers?

Or maybe you want your employees to support your "dealers".

Now I know that C4 allows Ryan alot of freedom to post his own opinions. (just look around)

But you fault him for supporting his companies line. Why?

Ryan has always been honest that he would be OK with another business model, but he works for a company that has decided on this model.

May I ask what type of business you are in?

Do not think that I am asking for personal details, you can just say IT or Finance.

Just a hint

Brent

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Im starting to think Ryan is more then just some programmer for C4. You care WAY to much about business operations.

OK very interseting to learn about your business practices' date=' Mr. Money

Do you have your employees go out on a public forum and critisize your dealers?

Or maybe you want your employees to support your "dealers".

Now I know that C4 allows Ryan alot of freedom to post his own opinions. (just look around)

But you fault him for supporting his companies line. Why?

Ryan has always been honest that he would be OK with another business model, but he works for a company that has decided on this model.

May I ask what type of business you are in?

Do not think that I am asking for personal details, you can just say IT or Finance.

Just a hint

Brent[/quote']

Actually I didn't critize him at all, I implied their might be more to him and his role at C4.

To answer a few of those questions...

I wouldn't want an employee on a public form. Dealer business should be kept private, not included in a thread. Consumers will read these threads and rightly or wrongly interpret some of the off the cuff statements. It could easily be read that C4 strong arms dealers and don't care about their end user, that their first and only concern is the dealer. Again not that this is the case but it could be read that way, easily.

What business am I I'm? Yes, a little of both.

Sorry for voicing my opinions and upsetting anyone, if I did. Just a discussion with no malice or tone...

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Personally, I don't think a lot of "dealer business" happens on this forum.

And, I think it's better that I clarify for those who think that they *can* do Control4 DIY easily. I personally think they should know up-front that it's not Control4's business model, and any difficulties they may have trying to do it.

Otherwise, customers would be *less* satisfied, IMHO.

There are people for whom Control4 is not the right system. If someone wants 'ultimate control' over their system *and* the full installation/maintenance of that system, they may want to look at something else.

Of course, I personally don't think there's anything out there with the same power, range of control (i.e. AV and non-AV, IR, Serial, IP, Contact/Relay), and a 'canned' professional UI (and the ability for end users to configure most things in the system, with ComposerHE) in Control4's price range.

RyanE

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There are people for whom Control4 is not the right system.

Absolutely, but seriously what else is there?

If someone wants 'ultimate control' over their system *and* the full installation/maintenance of that system, they may want to look at something else.

Like what?

Of course, I personally don't think there's anything out there with the same power, range of control (i.e. AV and non-AV, IR, Serial, IP, Contact/Relay), and a 'canned' professional UI (and the ability for end users to configure most things in the system, with ComposerHE) in Control4's price range.

100% agreed

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