My Installer Bricked My HC1000

[chesterwilson]

It worked fine until he bricked it.  He should replace it with another HC1000 (at the very least).  He inconvenienced you, not the other way around. 

 

I can't believe anyone would think that it's ok and expected just because the unit is old.  He took responsibility once he agreed to do the update (which wasn't free).

[chesterwilson]

Sounds like coincidence and u should buy a new controller....shit happens

Or go on eBay and buy another 1000 for 200 bucks

The fact ur system has been running well for years with him as ur dealer sounds to me like he knows what he's doing...and is fair, I'm sure he feels bad but was most likely out of his control

 

So let me get this straight.  The unit has been working fine for four years.  The dealer comes in to do an upgrade.  During that upgrade the HC1000 fails and we are supposed to believe that it was just a coincidence?

 

How convenient....

[hauser7]

Yeah chesterwilson it was all a master plan to get the customer to swap the 1000...

Shit happens we have had this happen before..

The customer said the system was running 2.1 just Fyi in order to add the hc250, the system has to be at least on the version the hc250 ships from C4. In this case 2.5 at least...so thats is the reason why the update had to be done by the dealer.... If he should or shouldn't offer a discount on a new controller thats up to the dealer and usually depends on how is the dealer-customer relation...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[chesterwilson]

Yeah chesterwilson it was all a master plan to get the customer to swap the 1000...

Shit happens we have had this happen before..

The customer said the system was running 2.1 just Fyi in order to add the hc250, the system has to be at least on the version the hc250 ships from C4. In this case 2.5 at least...so thats is the reason why the update had to be done by the dealer.... If he should or shouldn't offer a discount on a new controller thats up to the dealer and usually depends on how is the dealer-customer relation...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

What the hell do you mean by master plan?  

 

If someone comes to do work at someone's home and breaks something in the process they or there liability insurance pays for it, end of story.  Why do these rules exclude Control4 dealers?  

 

Really has nothing to do with dealer-customer relation.

[AdamT]

I would be interested to see whom of you are dealers vs end users when saying he should be compensated. Chester saying "So let me get this straight.  The unit has been working fine for four years.  The dealer comes in to do an upgrade.  During that upgrade the HC1000 fails and we are supposed to believe that it was just a coincidence?

How convenient...." without really knowing the complete situation just makes me think you have made the "express decision" that dealers are at fault.

 

Lets say a car runs fine for 4 years and you take the car into the oil change shop. While at the shop the tech is removing the oil filter. During the filter removal the piece that holds the filter on the car snaps off, even without the over application of pressure to remove. Who is responsible? The tech doing the oil change? Quick to judge right, and dammit he was the last one that touched it.

What if a previous tech over tightened  the filter on the last oil change making it hard to remove? (we have all ran into rack screws some one over tightened with an impact or stripped the head a little)

OR was it the car maker for not making it a more heavy duty part?

OR is it the fault of the individual part manufacturer for faulty manufacturing?

OR when casting the part at the factory was there a chemical defect in the sand used to make the part?

OR was it one of a thousand other things. 

Shit does happen. I mean is this the first situation or problem you have had with your C4 system? Did your dealer charge you every single time he logged in remotely to adjust a setting? Has he charged you for every single part used. He has never hooked you up?

Off the cuff and judging by your responses here is my guess. Your dealer takes pretty good care of you and keeps your system running well and this is the first major issue and now you feel entitled to money, refunds, parts, something. I try to look out for every single customer and some customers push, and take and want and want and these are the ones that I try to help but if anything they do themselves a disservice by not paying attention. Unless this guy is a complete rookie he has done this before. He more than likely followed the same steps he has 50 times before. Its just bad luck that it happened to you. You obviously have been taken care of and happy for "x" number of years or you would have (should have) found a different dealer. 

 

Not to mention right now you can get an HC-800 from your dealer on trade for the HC-1000 for HALF PRICE. I would say your issue might be good timing. 

 

An HC-1000 running constantly for years on end without issue and then it craps the bed. It happens. 

 

I still would like to see the answers to my questions in my previous post. 

[chesterwilson]

I would be interested to see whom of you are dealers vs end users when saying he should be compensated. Chester saying "So let me get this straight.  The unit has been working fine for four years.  The dealer comes in to do an upgrade.  During that upgrade the HC1000 fails and we are supposed to believe that it was just a coincidence?

How convenient...." without really knowing the complete situation just makes me think you have made the "express decision" that dealers are at fault.

 

Lets say a car runs fine for 4 years and you take the car into the oil change shop. While at the shop the tech is removing the oil filter. During the filter removal the piece that holds the filter on the car snaps off, even without the over application of pressure to remove. Who is responsible? The tech doing the oil change? Quick to judge right, and dammit he was the last one that touched it.

What if a previous tech over tightened  the filter on the last oil change making it hard to remove? (we have all ran into rack screws some one over tightened with an impact or stripped the head a little)

OR was it the car maker for not making it a more heavy duty part?

OR is it the fault of the individual part manufacturer for faulty manufacturing?

OR when casting the part at the factory was there a chemical defect in the sand used to make the part?

OR was it one of a thousand other things. 

Shit does happen. I mean is this the first situation or problem you have had with your C4 system? Did your dealer charge you every single time he logged in remotely to adjust a setting? Has he charged you for every single part used. He has never hooked you up?

Off the cuff and judging by your responses here is my guess. Your dealer takes pretty good care of you and keeps your system running well and this is the first major issue and now you feel entitled to money, refunds, parts, something. I try to look out for every single customer and some customers push, and take and want and want and these are the ones that I try to help but if anything they do themselves a disservice by not paying attention. Unless this guy is a complete rookie he has done this before. He more than likely followed the same steps he has 50 times before. Its just bad luck that it happened to you. You obviously have been taken care of and happy for "x" number of years or you would have (should have) found a different dealer. 

 

Not to mention right now you can get an HC-800 from your dealer on trade for the HC-1000 for HALF PRICE. I would say your issue might be good timing. 

 

An HC-1000 running constantly for years on end without issue and then it craps the bed. It happens. 

 

I still would like to see the answers to my questions in my previous post. 

 

Don't see the parallel there.  I'll give you a similar example though.  If I bring in my BMW for a software upgrade and all of a sudden my GPS stops working they fix it and don't charge for it (I can speak firsthand on this).  They don't give me a song and dance about how it's old, was bound to happen, etc....

 

Yes I am quick to point the finger, I am a consumer and not a C4 tech expert.  If my hc-1000 is working for 4 years and stops working when my dealer upgrades the firmware I will blame him.  

[AdamT]

Don't see the parallel there.  I'll give you a similar example though.  If I bring in my BMW for a software upgrade and all of a sudden my GPS stops working they fix it and don't charge for it (I can speak firsthand on this).  They don't give me a song and dance about how it's old, was bound to happen, etc....

 

Yes I am quick to point the finger, I am a consumer and not a C4 tech expert.  If my hc-1000 is working for 4 years and stops working when my dealer upgrades the firmware I will blame him.  

 

The parallel is there are a million things that can go wrong. I am not a car guy and I pay someone to do that but heck, lets blame them.  I could point the finger at everyone in that scenario but as a tech, troubleshooter, designer type person it is my job to investigate the issue. If I walked into every home and made a 5 second judgement I would be unemployed. If I took every customer at their word for "what happened" to something I would be unemployed. I don't know how many times a customer has told me they didn't touch it, didn't adjust it, didn't even know it was there and then when you do some investigating and phrase the question different the truth comes out.  

 

I like your last line though. Since your not an expert or tech how can you possibly point the finger so quickly?  Since Paul hasn't even defined what happened other than "bricked it" 

 

If you really want to take a quick look at this the controller was getting an update and got bricked. Well Control4 wrote the update. Lets blame them shall we? Oh wait his laptop is an HP and it could have corrupted the install, lets blame them. But the Ethernet card in the laptop temporarily hiccuped so lets blame them. But its a Windows laptop and we all know Windows sucks, lets blame them. But the guy that made the Ethernet cord made a cheap cord, lets blame them. 

 

This is really starting to remind me of all of the sue happy people this world has. Nothing is ever up for just breaking. We have to blame someone so we can get a deal or a freebie. So lets punish the dealer and make them pay. That way when people start doing that the dealer can go bankrupt leaving the customer with no dealer and having to find a new one that isn't familiar with the quirks and hidden things in the system and it'll cost the customer twice as much for the new tech to figure out where the damn wires go! But hey he saved half on a controller when he spent $50k+ on a system. 

So Paul please tell us more about what "bricked" means in your book. If the thing boots it should/could/might be savable but if it wont power on there isn't an update in the world that can make a power supply fail......or is there?

[msgreenf]

So yeah, this thread is going downhill...it really doesn't matter what anyone says.  All that matters is what the customer and the dealer work out.  If the customer is unhappy, he should contact Control4 corporate.  

 

All of us chiming in isn't gonna change anything....

[Godzilla]

^exactly

[Paulknapp]

Did they try a restore key?

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk

Yes, I think so, they told me they tried to do a USB restore...

[Paulknapp]

Paul,

 

I would agree that some kind of discount would be good IF you are a good customer (as you say) just to keep you happy. That being said......

 

When you say "bricked" please define that. Does the 1000 power up at all? If it does power up, what does the display that is hooked up to it say or do? What is the pattern of the LED's on the front? Does your router give it an IP? I think a lot of info is needed to say what happened. I have done many updates and have seen many controllers not boot up after a reboot. Its a power supply or cap issue in all electronic devices just as I have had many PC's run for years and when power was removed or a reboot was done BAM no workie.

 

As far as the dealer being responsible I disagree. Like I said he should try to keep you happy but again, many variables. Not trying to be insulting but there are a bunch of customers of mine that have paid on time, bought a bunch of gear year after year, taken recommendations when I have offered and so on. Then there are customers that are the opposite. I do treat them differently, I think most dealers do. Now you have an old controller (I don't think you mentioned how old it was, that's important too) that has been running constantly similar to a PC. Is the environment controller friendly? Good venting, little to no dust and dirt, and you paying for regular maintenance? Since you are running 2.1 I am assuming your dealer hasn't been there for a while and that could be because he hasn't reached out to you, he hasn't expressed the importance of maintenance, or when he offered you maybe turned him down because you didn't want to pay for it, and again I am not placing blame.

 

So I don't think this, or many issues are cut and dry when someone is trying to tell their story. I like to tell people there are three sides to every story. My side, your side and what really happened. No blaming, just my view. I really don't think it is reasonable for you to think this old controller got damaged by your dealer (and basically slamming your dealer) but some dealers just plain suck too. I don't know the dealer so I cant say anything on that side of things. I do think If someone spent money with me, from $5 to $500,000 I try to treat them the same with good workmanship, good customer service and an honest answer on situations and I would try to figure something out [depending on the situation again]

 

I would question the update and the introduction of more old controllers (2x200's) to the system and the reasoning behind that vs. new(er) controllers but I don't know the layout of your home. 

 

I do think there is more to this story but maybe your dealer is an ass. 

 

Adam, I'll try to answer your questions:

 

1) "Brick" is exactly the term used by the techs on site.  They elaborated by saying "because it's as good as a brick at this point."  They said they did everything they could to include contacting C4 and the only thing left would be to send it back to C4 to attempt to get if repaired for a fixed cost of $400.

 

2) I don't recall saying I am a "good" customer, just that I have spent a lot of money.  But here it is... I am a good customer.  I understand the C4 model and pay handsomely for my dealer to do things I could definitely do myself if the model were different--but it isn't so I call them and pay what they bill me, even for remote work such as adding new remotes etc.

 

3) The rack is in a well/direct vented low dust location, but I have never been offered any type of ongoing maintenance plan or schedule from the dealer.  I probably would have purchased it if offered.

 

4)  EDIT:  Sorry I missed the old 200 controller question.  I had two HC200s (purchased through this forum from Dan a while back) that I had them place at the last two TV locations that didn't have on screen GUI capability.  My parents and in-laws visit a lot and they sometimes have issues with using the same remote in different ways.  This way all seven TV locations offer the "4 Button" and on screen GUI.

 

5)  Dealer is definitely not an ass.  They are a really professional company and I have enjoyed dealing with both the sales guys and the field techs.  The only drawback is that they charge a premium rate for EVERYTHING.  (I understand they are a business and I'm not complaining)  That is why I started this thread, just to get a C4 industry take on dealing with the unfortunate demise of my HC1000, because this company is spring loaded to calculate full rate charges, not offer discounts or concessions.  (Again, not throwing spears, just describing the situation.)

 

Adam, hopefully that answers your questions, I'll wrap up in a separate post.

 

Cheers!

Paul

[AdamT]

Adam, I'll try to answer your questions:

 

1) "Brick" is exactly the term used by the techs on site.  They elaborated by saying "because it's as good as a brick at this point."  They said they did everything they could to include contacting C4 and the only thing left would be to send it back to C4 to attempt to get if repaired for a fixed cost of $400.

 

2) I don't recall saying I am a "good" customer, just that I have spent a lot of money.  But here it is... I am a good customer.  I understand the C4 model and pay handsomely for my dealer to do things I could definitely do myself if the model were different--but it isn't so I call them and pay what they bill me, even for remote work such as adding new remotes etc.

 

3) The rack is in a well/direct vented low dust location, but I have never been offered any type of ongoing maintenance plan or schedule from the dealer.  I probably would have purchased it if offered.

 

4)  EDIT:  Sorry I missed the old 200 controller question.  I had two HC200s (purchased through this forum from Dan a while back) that I had them place at the last two TV locations that didn't have on screen GUI capability.  My parents and in-laws visit a lot and they sometimes have issues with using the same remote in different ways.  This way all seven TV locations offer the "4 Button" and on screen GUI.

 

5)  Dealer is definitely not an ass.  They are a really professional company and I have enjoyed dealing with both the sales guys and the field techs.  The only drawback is that they charge a premium rate for EVERYTHING.  (I understand they are a business and I'm not complaining)  That is why I started this thread, just to get a C4 industry take on dealing with the unfortunate demise of my HC1000, because this company is spring loaded to calculate full rate charges, not offer discounts or concessions.  (Again, not throwing spears, just describing the situation.)

 

Adam, hopefully that answers your questions, I'll wrap up in a separate post.

 

Cheers!

Paul

Paul,

 

Thanks for the answers. Now we are getting somewhere. I will tell you this. Get a second opinion on the 1000. Heck feel free to shoot me the techs or dealers info and I will call them. Unfortunately as my previous post said "bricked" is like saying I want a blue shirt. Too many people have their own definition. 

 

I am glad you are a good customer. They are easier and harder to work for than a bad one. Its also good to hear you think highly of your dealer. Paul if your OK with it shoot me your info and I will take this direct with you. Something isn't sitting right about them just saying its a boat anchor, which isn't a good thing to tell a customer that lost a controller. To me that's worse than losing the family cat, but I don't really like our cat and I love my Control4......

[Paulknapp]

Okay,  Thanks everyone for your responses to this thread.  I didn't intend for it to get so heated, but I obviously touched on a sensitive topic.  I am a good customer who the dealer has called frequently to use as a reference for new C4 clients.  That being said, I know there is no way to know what caused the 1000 to brick.  So I asked this group of dealers, techs, gurus and newbies to get an idea of what would be a reasonable request of my dealer.  I will be talking to both the sales guy and the tech today about this and my wife just called me (I'm on the road for business) and the garage door with new C4 kit installed opened on its own in the middle of the night last night.  Again, thanks everyone for your responses.  Cheers!  Paul  BTW:  I'll let you know what we come up with.

[Paulknapp]

Final follow up: in the end I decided to go with a new 800 and talked the dealer into selling me the hardware at cost and install at "Family & Friends" rate. A good samaritan on this forum informed me about the 1000-800 trade in deal, which my dealer was unaware of, but they were able to get it and pass on more savings. Overall, I think it was much more painful than it should have been. The end result is that I have a big addition coming up and I'm going to get at least 1 other bid instead of just returning to this dealer. Thanks again for all the responses. Paul

[AdamT]

I have a guy local to you that can provide that one other bid. Someone I trust and wont do you wrong. Of course we service your area as well....

[thecodeman]

A good samaritan on this forum informed me about the 1000-800 trade in deal, which my dealer was unaware of, but they were able to get it and pass on more savings. 

I wonder if they ever talk to their sales rep.