Multi tuner help

[jem]

Im new to the multi tuner and I'm looking for help understanding it. I want to use a multi tuner for 6 zones.

How do you select the unused side of the tuner?

If tuner 2 is in use does it know to bind to the Tuner 1?

What happens when both tuners are in use and there is a request from another zone?

Thanks

[lippavisual]

Exactly how you stated it. If tuner 1 is in use and another zone calls for tuner, it will use tuner 2. If both are being used and someone calls for it, it will take over one of the tuners.

Remember, there are only two outputs for the tuner, so you will be limited to only two zones listening to something different.

[jem]

I understand that I'm limited to the two outputs.

I wasnt sure if the tuner thought for itself. Boy, C4 sure is smart.

Thanks alot!

[neil12011]

I'm not sure that's right. When you add the C4 tuner to the project, by default, it adds "tuner 1" and "tuner 2" not a generic "c4 tuner"...so you would have to hide one in certain rooms and un-hide it in others...someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's how it works...yeah, I'm looking at my project now, that's how it's setup..

[slemay]

It could be "3" tuners if you add the XM card to the tuner!!!

[jem]

how much?

[Hammer]

I'm not sure that's right. When you add the C4 tuner to the project, by default, it adds "tuner 1" and "tuner 2" not a generic "c4 tuner"...so you would have to hide one in certain rooms and un-hide it in others...someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's how it works...yeah, I'm looking at my project now, that's how it's setup..

That is a good question. They way my dealer has it setup is that in the majority of the rooms it just shows up as "Tuner" and I was assuming it grabs either 1 or 2 but not sure I've paid enough attention. However, in my main theater room, he does have it setup as Tuner 1, Tuner 2, and a whole seperate Tuner 3 because of some integration we are doing with my surround sound system.

[slemay]

I believe the XM option is $199.

Hammer - Tuner is all you should see - you shouldn't need to specifically pick which tuner you use etc... let the system do that for ya.

[Hammer]

I believe the XM option is $199.

Hammer - Tuner is all you should see - you shouldn't need to specifically pick which tuner you use etc... let the system do that for ya.

One thing I have struggled with the multi-tuner and this tuner1 or tuner2 auto selection is when trying to use media scenes. Since the concept of audio zones only applies to digital music and not radio, I have attempted to use media scense to play the radio in several rooms simultaneously withtout having to turn each room on or off individually.

Long story short, while the media scene worked turning on or off the rooms and playing the radio it would randomly put some rooms on tuner 1 and some on tuner 2 and I could not control this behavior. Granted I haven't tested this since being upgraded to 1.6 a couple of days ago, but it would be nice if there was a work around to get this working correctly. Better C4, extend the zone and session concept to radio!

[neil12011]

slemay, how do you assign only 1 tuner to a project? On mine, which has the C4 tuner, it gives you tuner 1 and tuner 2...on the navigators they both show up...am I missing something? I have to hide the other "tuner" in certain rooms and make it visible in others....help me out on this one.

[jem]

I think I have it figured out. After you set up the tuner and create a media list. Go to zone 1 and select a radio station, the multi tuner chooses which tuner to tune. If you go to zone 2 and select a different radio station it tunes the side not in use. If you select radio on the navigator, you will see Station, Tuner 2, Tuner 3. If you want the multi tuner to do all the thinking, you can hide Tuner 2 and Tuner 3 from the menu.

Only one problem Im having. For some reason when I set up zone 1 to a station and I start a session on zone 2 on a different station I loose the zone 1 stream and vise versa.

[slemay]

Bunch of notes for you all...

1) I was wrong in that only Tuner shows up - I thought about it for a sec - and neil is correct... Tuner 1 and Tuner 2 show up. But we usually HIDE those and just let users select the stations directly that they want to listen to.

2) Don't select a tuner in your programming!!! Even if it's media scenes!!! Chose the STATION in your programming... that will solve both jem's problem and hammers problem. You're conflicting with the system selecting which tuner to use etc... so just let the system make the decision... you just tell it: GREAT ROOM --> 98.5 Kiss FM.

3) Media scenes - bunch of ways to do that - but similar to #2. If I'm doing the a media scene in programming - I'd start with the first room - and choose the station, as I did in #2. Then I would tell the other zones to join into that first zone (or in the case of a true media scene, tell the media scene that it tracks the "GREAT ROOM") - either way... that'll solve that problem

4) hammer - C4 did extend the zone concept in 1.6 - better play with it some more and you'll see. Sessions no longer exist at all. It's ALL zones now - regardless if it's a digital source or analog source.

Hope this helps guys!

[jem]

Thanks for the info.

Could you give me some ideas on how you have your multi tuner connected. Since you cant stream 2 analog sources at once, how are your multi tuners connected. Are your tuner outputs feeding a switch and then to a multi amp for zones? This seems to be the only way to do it.

Right now I have a MC, Multi tuner and speakerpoints feeding the zones. With this configuration the multi tuner is only able to use one output at a time. Do I need to start looking into a matrix switch and multi amp to feed 6 zones with audio, or is there another way.

[brilliant]

Hello Everyone

I am a new commer to C4

I am setting up our showroom to get a feel of the system

I would like to know if there is a length limitation in splicing a CAT5 cable into an ir emitter

Also is there a solution NOT TO stick the IR emitter onto the front of my nice plasma screen?

Thanks

[neil12011]

take the case off or if there is a direct connect ir plug in the back, but I don't see too many that have it (that works).

[RyanE]

Also, brilliant, it's preferable to start a new post instead of 'piggybacking' a different question onto an existing question.

Y'know, for future reference.

If you're a dealer, you may also want to use the Official Control4 Forums, at http://forums.control4.com.

RyanE

[slemay]

Could you give me some ideas on how you have your multi tuner connected. Since you cant stream 2 analog sources at once, how are your multi tuners connected. Are your tuner outputs feeding a switch and then to a multi amp for zones? This seems to be the only way to do it.

Right now I have a MC, Multi tuner and speakerpoints feeding the zones. With this configuration the multi tuner is only able to use one output at a time. Do I need to start looking into a matrix switch and multi amp to feed 6 zones with audio, or is there another way.

I'm not sure I follow what you mean you can't stream two analog sources - sure you can - just depends on the equipment you have. We typically will take both analog outputs and plug them directly into the C4 8 zone amp... thus giving 2 zones of tuner to anyone who needs it.

For your setup - I'm still confused as to what you can and cannot do. If your doing digital streaming (IE: the speakerpoints sit elsewhere, but are connected via Ethernet) - than the simplest thing to do would be to take BOTH analog outputs and put them into the MC (it has two analog inputs) - that will digitize them both and now you have access to both tuners. If the speakpoints sit next to the the Tuner and you want to keep the sources analog (instead of digitizing - and I'm assuming you're telling the speakerpoints to run in LOCAL AMP mode), then you run one to each speakerpoint (now you are limited to just one tuner per zone - but that's OK if you only have two speakerpoints). So I guess I can't correctly answer this w/o knowing how you've got it hooked up - but I don't see why you can't use both outputs of the tuner!

BUT - again not knowing all of your configuration - it sounds like you really need the C4 8 zone amp, which has an audio matrix switch built into it and that would take all your zones and switch them in / out for ya.

[jem]

I have a 3 bedroom rancher that I am in the beginning phase of design. I am piece mealing this project for two reasons. One of course $, and the second is that I like to learn about each individual piece of equipment. Its pros and cons. My best friend is a dealer and I found more info on this forum than he has to offer. I'm starting to learn him. Thanks to you guys/gals!

This whole project started out as a lighting control system. I have that nailed. Now Im learning what the capabilities are of C4 and that is my problem/new motivation.

My big picture is to have audio through out the house and a zone or two outside. MP3, Radio, Digital cable audio channels.

I want AV in the living room where I have a 50" plasma and in the master I have a 32" LCD. I have seperate cable boxes for each.

My children are young and I wanted to set up their bedrooms with keypads that control audio functions. I dont want to have any equipment in their rooms. The multi tuner was the way to go so that they wouldnt fight over a station. I have many CDs and playlists set up for them. I was only going to setup basic cable.

Equipment on hand:

1 MC

1 Multi tuner

2 speaker points (1 wifi, 1 ethernet)

I know my streaming problem is the wifi speaker point. I have the mulit tuner plugged into input 1 and 2 of the MC. I can stream an analog signal through the wifi speaker point (Kitchen) no problem. If I turn on another room (Living Room ethernet speaker point) to a different radio station the Kitchen stream drops out. And vise versa.

You mentioned that the amp has the matrix built into it. Does my project sound like a good candidate for the c4 amp? Would the speaker points be needed anymore?

[slemay]

My big picture is to have audio through out the house and a zone or two outside. MP3, Radio, Digital cable audio channels.

Cheapest solution is to buy the C4 8 zone (16 channel) amp up front! Even if you only use 3 zones now - the break even point is 5 zones - BUT - the fact that it has the audio matrix switch BUILT INTO IT - is huge!

I want AV in the living room where I have a 50" plasma and in the master I have a 32" LCD. I have seperate cable boxes for each.

Do you have surround sound in either? If so - you'll run the digital out of the cable box to that surround receiver - but still run the analog audio out to the C4 amp (this way you can play music in other rooms - or even the football game - though the entire house). If you do NOT have surround sound - then just run the analogs - and it'll play the TV through the ceiling speakers (always a better solution than the TV's speakers).

My children are young and I wanted to set up their bedrooms with keypads that control audio functions. I dont want to have any equipment in their rooms. The multi tuner was the way to go so that they wouldnt fight over a station. I have many CDs and playlists set up for them. I was only going to setup basic cable.

The beauty of Control4 - no equipment anywhere except in the rack (in the basement or closet). You can plug those two cable boxes, two outputs from the MC, two (maybe 3 if you have XM) outputs from the tuner all into the C4 amp and let it switch them all between the different rooms.

I know my streaming problem is the wifi speaker point. I have the mulit tuner plugged into input 1 and 2 of the MC. I can stream an analog signal through the wifi speaker point (Kitchen) no problem. If I turn on another room (Living Room ethernet speaker point) to a different radio station the Kitchen stream drops out. And vise versa.

Without looking at your project - I'd guess you've got a binding missing somewhere, or your programming is calling directly for a tuner, instead of a source (ie: 95.5 FM - instead you're telling the system Give me tuner 1 and play 95.5). You should have bindings that basically 2 tuner outputs go into the MC's 2 inputs. Then both will be available and it should allow both.

You mentioned that the amp has the matrix built into it. Does my project sound like a good candidate for the c4 amp? Would the speaker points be needed anymore?

Yes your project sounds like a great candidate - but only if you go above 4 zones. I think you can make your project work - but again, it still sounds like you've got something programmed wrong somewhere. Best solution is the C4 Amp and get rid of the two speaker points... but that, obviously, has a cost associated with it - and again - only makes sense if you are planning on expanding the system beyond 4 zones.

Shawn

[jem]

I appreciate you spending your time helping me. I see that you do that quite often on this site. Great Job!

I posted my bindings and programming.

The Living room is a wifi speaker point.

The Room is an ethernet speaker point.

I have even tried setting two different radio stations with the remote. The stream still drops out.

First time with the screen shots, please bare with me.

[slemay]

How about you upload your project and I'll check it out there - you're missing some screens that I need to see to verify connections etc..

Thanks, by the way, for the compliment!

[thecodeman]

How about you upload your project and I'll check it out there - you're missing some screens that I need to see to verify connections etc..

Thanks, by the way, for the compliment!

You know, something I just thought of, what if we had a "peer review my project" forum?

[jem]

Here is my project.

[jem]

Has anyone had a chance to look at my project?

Any suggestions why my streams drop out?

Thanks

[slemay]

Sorry - been super busy and haven't had time to spend on this - but taking a VERY quick look at it - I see that LOCAL AMP MODE is checked - but you have no inputs going into it. Uncheck that in both rooms - as that could be part (if not all) of your problem. What that option basically does it tells it to NOT digitize the inputs coming into it - as you won't need to stream them. In this case you have no inputs.

Also - you're missing bindings in the ROOM room. You don't show Video Audio End Point or Video Volume 1 (both should point to the TV). Also - where is the IR for the TV? That doesn't seem to be bound as well.

Keep a few things in mind - weather you think you need them or not - you should have all the connections identified if there are devices in the room for them. Even if it's not controlled by Control4, but you have it in the project. As the system gets confused. In the case of the audio endpoint for video - you have a TV and are telling it that it has audio / video going to it - but that there is no way to control the audio - and that Control4 shouldn't send the video's audio to it. It then gets confused and could have problems with other subcomponents. It's always best to fill in all the info!!

Make those changes and let me know how it goes.