Crestron Adagio and Control4 Comparison

[hehateme]

Has anyone compared the price and features of these two systems?

Crestron Adagio is entry level system from Crestron and it does not require as much programming as a typical Crestron.

[GoGo Delicious]

Has anyone compared the price and features of these two systems?

Crestron Adagio is entry level system from Crestron and it does not require as much programming as a typical Crestron.

The Crestron Adagio Line actually requires no programming. it works together with the APADS, CEN-iDOC or iServer, the Tuner Cards (XM/Sirius/AM/FM) and various other Crestron components.

Out of the box it's a full Crestron 2 Series control system.

The Adagio Line starts at $2500.00 RETAIL.

[hehateme]

James,

I was hoping you would reply because you are a Crestron dealer who is familiar with Control 4.

Lets say that I want to do audio distribution in my home. I have 6-8 zones. Wiring is already in place.

Lets assume that I might do video distribution and/or lighting in a few years.

If my budget is around $12000(max) for audio distribution.

It seems to me that I can either do Control4 or Adagio with this.

Both of them require dealers to do all the configuration. Both of them get good reviews.

What are some things I should consider before choosing one over the other?

For example:

Crestron Touch Panels will be super expensive.

Thanks

[jmk709]

GoGo,

Will the Adagio Line distribute video?

[tebery]

How does Crestron view the use of their equipment with non-Crestron wiring? (ie support)

[Matt]

$12,000 dollar would be a decent control4 system. How many zones are you looking to control?

I’d look into more on the control4 side if you’re trying to budge things within the 12,000 mark.

Once the system is setup you have the option for additional software to program what you need yourself.

[Matt]

Isn’t the Adagio line very limited? I am not very familiar with it, just heard a lot of complaints about additional upgrades.

[hehateme]

Matt,

I am going to control 7 zones. These include 2 rooms that have a home theater in them.

I have seen only seen 1 quote yet and

It recommended HC500, HC300 for the two rooms with TV. Amp and Tuner in the basement. Two 7 inch touch panels, 1 4 inch Mini touch panel, 2 LCD key pads.

This proposal mentions that I have to buy POE adapter for each key pad or touch panel.

I am talking to another installer and he is recommending:

HC500, Amp, Tuner in the basement: This HC500 will control all the zones that don't have a local controller

HC300 in my family room

HC200 in my master bedroom

Two 7 inch touch panels, 1 4 inch Mini touch panel, 2 LCD key pads.

This installer wants to use a 16 port DLink Switch that already has 8 ports supporting POE.

The second proposals cost will be higher.

I am trying to figure out how to evaluate these two proposals.

[c44me]

Id sure use something better then a Dlink switch

[Matt]

The primary controller of it being a 500 is nice, and would speed up the system especially if navigator is disabled (seems as if the second bid is pointing into that direction), is the only reason why they added another 200 to the system. This is definitely recommended.

[thecodeman]

Be mindful that the HC200 does not come with the SR-250 remote, meaning there's no cool screen on it.

[Matt]

Why would you need a “cool screen” if it’s in the master bedroom

I have several in my bedrooms and seems to best fit there.

[hehateme]

What is the difference in price between HC200 and HC300?

If I choose the second proposal I will get two SR250's one for the HC500 in the basement(unfinished) and one of HC300 in family room so I will have a SR250 with the cool screen in the master bedroom. I will move SR150 remote to guest bedroom.

[Matt]

300 has more in and outputs. IR/Serial

[thecodeman]

Why would you need a “cool screen” if it’s in the master bedroom

I have several in my bedrooms and seems to best fit there.

The screen is cool enough to warrant pointing out that it doesnt come with the 200. There's another thread where someone complained they were getting "ripped off" by being upcharged for an SR250 because it doesnt come with the 200 by default. Just a "watch out"

[GoGo Delicious]

James,

I was hoping you would reply because you are a Crestron dealer who is familiar with Control 4.

Lets say that I want to do audio distribution in my home. I have 6-8 zones. Wiring is already in place.

Lets assume that I might do video distribution and/or lighting in a few years.

If my budget is around $12000(max) for audio distribution.

It seems to me that I can either do Control4 or Adagio with this.

Both of them require dealers to do all the configuration. Both of them get good reviews.

What are some things I should consider before choosing one over the other?

For example:

Crestron Touch Panels will be super expensive.

Thanks

As far as TP's go they range in price from $1,250 on up and vary from handheld TP such as the TPMC-4GX (Which I have at home along with a TPMC-8X both are WiFi), You have in wall TPS-6L which has full motion video and 2 way intercom. You also have the option of NON TP, Hand Held remotes that start at $100.00 and go up to $750.00 Some of there are the MLX-2 and you have the WPR-48 which is water proof. You can use it in the shower, spa, pool, outdoors etc. So given the price and control options, with the budget you stated you can have a few TPS and/or hand held remotes and come in under budget. Also, one other thing if you have a iPhone or iPod Touch the app from Crestron is free. You just have to pay for dealer install. Currently we are giving away iPod touches to new clients who purchase a Crestron Adagio system with the control module installed for free.

As far as lighting that is very easy I wont go into detail just to say you can go with the Crestron infNET line of wireless switches. Unlike Control4 these are not ZigBee devices. Crestron uses a different radio spectrum to avoid interference.

For video distribution Crestron has more options than I can mention. They have everything from simple Component distribution over Cat5 to HDMI and 7.1 Audio over Fiber. You can take a look at their Digital Media distribution solution. For the past were we have been pulling fiber on all the jobs we have doe to "Future Proof" our clients. As far as fiber goes you can get Multi-Mode 1000Ft spools for around $150.00. The issue is you have to know how to terminate it or hire someone that does. we have to guys that can terminate here including myself.

To answer you other question "What are some things I should consider before choosing one over the other?". You have to keep in mind the following, and this is what I tell all my clients.

1) A Crestron system is a system you should look at if your thinking of a long term solution. It's a system that once it's in it should remain in even if you are planning on selling the house. You can and we have moved systems from one residence to another but thats not something I recommend.

2) Crestron has an entire ecosystem. They research, develop, manufacture and bring to market almost everything you will need without going to a 3rd party. One example is the Adagio Digital Media Line which is schedule for release in June. If you were at CEDIA in 2008 you would have seen it on display being demonstrated. The Adagio Media Center includes the following, Adagio Digital Media System, 200-Disc Blu-Ray DVD Changer, and a 4TB NAS all scheduled for release in June. This is just a small example of the ecosystem Crestron researches, develops, manufactures and brings to market.

3) In the end you will have to go with you feel comfortable with, which fits your life style, system expandability and what accessories and options are offered.

To bring up a little DIY - Crestron is NOT a DIY and far from it. BUT the Adagio line is pretty simple. In fact we have done 2 installs where the client did the wiring (we supplied the Cresnet wiring) and he installed the system himself. The client used the APADS for control and a CEN-iDOC and a few other components. All were plug and play with the Adagio system. We ordered the system and burned it in to make sure there were no DOA products and then shipped it to him.

Hope that helps. Any other questions let me know.

[Matt]

Why would you need a “cool screen” if it’s in the master bedroom

I have several in my bedrooms and seems to best fit there.

The screen is cool enough to warrant pointing out that it doesnt come with the 200. There's another thread where someone complained they were getting "ripped off" by being upcharged for an SR250 because it doesnt come with the 200 by default. Just a "watch out"

It has a listen button as well The 150 is meant to be with an onscreen gui. If they’re considering it a rip off, it’s like buying an f150 and asking why it doesn’t include the same packages as an f250. There are different models and different price points which both have to be met.

[Matt]

GoGo Delicious,

Is it a plug and play model with the Itouch/phone interface, or is there a lot of labor included on programming the Interface?

I was watching a cribs episode and notice none of the panels were working. Are you sure this couldn’t be from interference?

I touched my first Creston panel and I can admit a control4 system is an everyday walk in and use system Creston it seems as if you have to get used to the system first.

[thecodeman]

GoGo Delicious,

Is it a plug and play model with the Itouch/phone interface, or is there a lot of labor included on programming the Interface?

I was watching a cribs episode and notice none of the panels were working. Are you sure this couldn’t be from interference?

I touched my first Creston panel and I can admit a control4 system is an everyday walk in and use system Creston it seems as if you have to get used to the system first.

Company I used to work for installed Crestron systems but in a commercial application. That could be the greatest strength/weakness of Crestron's interface, you can customize it to be or do just about anything. Which can be convienient or overwhelming.

[GoGo Delicious]

GoGo,

Will the Adagio Line distribute video?

No it will not distribute video on its own. There are a few other pieces you will need.

[GoGo Delicious]

How does Crestron view the use of their equipment with non-Crestron wiring? (ie support)

Cresnet wiring is a special type of wire in that it contains 4 wires with different gauges, power, GND, TX and RX and since it carries data AND power (LV) over in a single jacket it is shielded. With that said if there are any communication issues Crestron will first ask if it has been wired with Cresnet. if you say "No" they will ask you to rewire it. NOW if you do say yes you might be thinking "How will Crestron ever know". Well, Crestron will actually send out, and does quite often, someone from Crestron support to investigate a issue if the dealer can not resolve it. Thats how they will find out.

You can purchase "Cresnet" type wiring that is approved by Crestron from other Manufs. As a dealer I have never done this since I want to make sure every job is perfect and nothing can come back and haunt me later. Especially wiring.

[GoGo Delicious]

GoGo Delicious,

Is it a plug and play model with the Itouch/phone interface, or is there a lot of labor included on programming the Interface?

iTouch/phone interface is NOT plug and play. With that said there is not a lot of labor in programming it but again that depends on how intense the client wants their iPhone App to be. The app is free and we charge $175.00 for install and programming an EXISTING system. We will not work on a system that we did not program.

I was watching a cribs episode and notice none of the panels were working. Are you sure this couldn’t be from interference?

No idea there. It could have been as simple as a dead battery to who knows what.

I touched my first Creston panel and I can admit a control4 system is an everyday walk in and use system Creston it seems as if you have to get used to the system first.

A Crestron touch panel actually comes with a default design (3 in fact) just like Control4 does. The difference with Crestron is that you do not have to use the default panel design and instead create a custom design that the customer wants. With that being said I have seen some FANTASTIC layout and designs and also some pretty AWEFUL and complicated ones. You base the design on what the clients would like while at the same time guiding them in making a simple, clean and efficient lay out.

[jbs]

Has anyone compared the price and features of these two systems?

Crestron Adagio is entry level system from Crestron and it does not require as much programming as a typical Crestron.

The Crestron Adagio Line actually requires no programming. it works together with the APADS' date=' CEN-iDOC or iServer, the Tuner Cards (XM/Sirius/AM/FM) and various other Crestron components.

Out of the box it's a full Crestron 2 Series control system.

The Adagio Line starts at $2500.00 RETAIL.

When you say it requires no programming, can you elaborate? Since plug n play (i.e. recognizing and identifying a TV or receiver brand and model just by plugging in in the component or HDMI cables) does not exist in AV the way it does in computers, how does a system get configured? I'd assume someone needs to program it, right?

Do you mean that there's no programming as in nothing that the user can program? How does a lighting scene get programmed in? Can a user do that? Does a dealer do it? Or is it not possible?

By the way, James, while you're more than welcome to reference me in your signature :-) and while I tend to think your being a Crestron dealer is relevant context for some postings, I hope you don't feel obligated to make it part of your signature (in any case I did not ask you to do so). I pointed it out in the earlier thread because I was asking how it would impact C4 dealers and users. And while I don't doubt your good intentions and the value of your insight here, the commercial success of Control4 is not aligned with the commercial interests of Crestron-only dealers. I know, there's an argument that Control4 will bring non-HA people into the HA market and that eventually more will migrate to Crestron, but I tend to doubt it, and it seems more likely that in the mean time a lot of potential small Crestron projects become large C4 projects. In any case, it seemed relevant there, but whether you make it part of your signature is entirely your choice. :-)

[GoGo Delicious]

When you say it requires no programming, can you elaborate? Since plug n play (i.e. recognizing and identifying a TV or receiver brand and model just by plugging in in the component or HDMI cables) does not exist in AV the way it does in computers, how does a system get configured? I'd assume someone needs to program it, right?

The original poster asked about doing audio only at this time so I referenced and spoke about audio only. To elaborate on plug 'n play with the Adagio on audio only, say a client purchases a Adagio system with a AM/FM/Sirius Card and a iPod Doc and 1 APAD. Let's also say they did the wiring (we supplied the Cresnet wire) and he only wants audio in 1 room fro now. We can send the system and he can install it without any programming. The CEN-iDOC, the APAD, the Audio cards. Now lets say he now wants to add a second room (he did all the wiring previously) we can send him an APAD and a second AM/FM/Sirius Card. All he as to do is install tuner card in the ADAGIO and the APAD in the wall and plug it in. No programing needed. The system recognizes the APAD and the AM/FM/Sirius tuner. As far as video, dvd, cable boxes, etc. Thats a different story. In order to make sure he has the right Adagio product for his future needs we would sit down and discuss with him what Adagio and/ or Crestron products we feel would be appropriate for him

Direct from Crestron's web site. The APAD affords easy plug-and-play functionality as part of a complete Adagio or MediaManager MPS system. Without requiring any programming, the APAD enables enhanced control of multi-room audio distribution and multimedia presentation. Of course the APAD is compatible with any Crestron 2-Series control system, allowing fully programmable functionality to support any custom application.

Do you mean that there's no programming as in nothing that the user can program? How does a lighting scene get programmed in? Can a user do that? Does a dealer do it? Or is it not possible?

We are talking two different systems. The Adagio system is designed to be plug 'n play with certain Crestron hardware. As far as lighting goes yes it can handle lighting, but here it takes some programming not much.

Here is something I wrote in another thread.

With that said you may ask "How does a Crestron Customer change lighting scenes with out a Crestron HE application". We write that in. There is a page on the TP a client can go and change the date, time (AM/PM, Astronomical), which Lights will dim and at what dimming percentage (25%, 50%, etc). All the lighting scene changes a client may want to make are done through the TP.

By the way, James, while you're more than welcome to reference me in your signature :-) and while I tend to think your being a Crestron dealer is relevant context for some postings, I hope you don't feel obligated to make it part of your signature (in any case I did not ask you to do so). I pointed it out in the earlier thread because I was asking how it would impact C4 dealers and users. And while I don't doubt your good intentions and the value of your insight here, the commercial success of Control4 is not aligned with the commercial interests of Crestron-only dealers. I know, there's an argument that Control4 will bring non-HA people into the HA market and that eventually more will migrate to Crestron, but I tend to doubt it, and it seems more likely that in the mean time a lot of potential small Crestron projects become large C4 projects. In any case, it seemed relevant there, but whether you make it part of your signature is entirely your choice. :-)

James-

In the interest of full disclosure for those not familiar with your postings here, and since I did ask for the views of users who might want to attend a class or C4 dealers for whom it might pose a problem, I want to clarify that you're not a C4 dealer or user, correct?

I added it "in the interest of full disclosure"

[Matt]

With this certain “Creston hardware” and wiring to make the client happy, how much are we talking?

7 Zones total with approximately 6-7 panels and a few remotes?

I don’t believe the bid would be under $12,000.