BrownBear Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 Hi everyone, I moved into a home that previously had Control4 (HC800 + C4 8-Zone Matrix Amp) but the owner did not provide ANY information on the system so I need to now do a full system reassignment. Some initial questions for the this community: Background: Audio (9 zones of 2 speakers, 2 zones of 5.1 speakers), Video (2 TVs hooked up to separate 4K AppleTVs), 2 Nest thermostats (one upstairs, one downstairs), 5 smart yale locks, 2 myQs (one for gate, one for garage door), Rachio, Vista 20P (security panel). For audio, we exclusively use Tidal. For video, we exclusively use AppleTV Can a HC-800 support this system on OS3 (I don't care about the GUI on any of the TVs)? Do I need to/should I upgrade to an EA-5? For my 11 zones of audio, I will be using the C4 8-zone matrix amp (C4-16AMP3) and 2 Denon receivers (X3400H). I will hook up 8 zones to the C4 amp and then the two 5.1 zones to each receiver plus one additional 2 speaker zone to the second channel of one of the Denon receivers. Does that make sense/will that work? If so, in C4, can I play a song through Tidal and have it play in all 11 zones at the same time (without a lag or other issues)? How many separate Tidal streams can a HC-800 support? I believe the EA-5 can support 5, right? In terms of expansion in the next 12-24 months, I might add 6 motorized outdoor shades, ~30 zigbee C4 light switches, and a C4 intercom (C4-DS2SM). Does that change the decision on keeping the HC-800 versus paying to upgrade to an EA-5 Thanks so much! Really appreciate any and all advise/support guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 If you do not care about the onscreen UI and have no older touchscreens to replace I'd keep the HC800 and put your $$ towards the expansion stuff you mentioned. Though the EA5 can do 5 streams at once, 1 of those 5 is via HDMI. so for audio purposes, its mostly 2 digital and 2 analog outputs. the 5th HDMI is rarely used for whole home audio. https://smart-story.ru/files/products/controllers/ea-1-performance-comparison-rev-a.pdf Will compare the last series (HC800/HC250) with the EA series. Some people guess at the internals and swear the HC800 is still beefier and faster than the EA5. I've read both sides. I moved from an HC800 to an EA5 and I have not noticed any improvement or degrading in system response time. I'll let others chime in about your audio questions - my guess is there will be a lag with the AVR zones. I'd get a separate audio matrix switch (16x16) and then get an 8 channel amp. You can put the amps into the matrix and run a wire from the matrix to the AVRs to eliminate lag/delay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownBear Posted May 7, 2020 Author Share Posted May 7, 2020 Thanks eggzlot. Yeah I don't have any C4 touchscreens and will not use the onscreen UI on TVs. I was playing on just using the OS3 C4 app on our phones. I might also get a NEEO remote for the family room (room with the 5.1 sound and AVR). Will use either SR250s or SR260s for other rooms. Given that, it sounds like I should be good with the HC-800, right? With a HC-800 and the C4-16AMP, how many different Tidal streams can I have going at the same time? On the 16AMP, can you control the volume for each of the 8 zones independently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 26 minutes ago, BrownBear said: Thanks eggzlot. Yeah I don't have any C4 touchscreens and will not use the onscreen UI on TVs. I was playing on just using the OS3 C4 app on our phones. I might also get a NEEO remote for the family room (room with the 5.1 sound and AVR). Will use either SR250s or SR260s for other rooms. Given that, it sounds like I should be good with the HC-800, right? With a HC-800 and the C4-16AMP, how many different Tidal streams can I have going at the same time? On the 16AMP, can you control the volume for each of the 8 zones independently? I am not a Tidal expert the HC800 can do 4 streams, again 1 being HDMI, so really 3 streams. 2 Analog and 1 digital. So for Tidal, you *may* need 3 Tidal accounts. I know that is how it works for Pandora. But again I do not use Tidal so do not quote me. Power wise the Hc800 should be fine. I mean I do not think you can buy a new HC800, so given you already have one, yes use it. Performance wise I don't think you'll notice. The EA5 has the extra digital audio output, more IRs/Serial, has a switch on it, has the ability to run the latest UI, etc. There are improvements but you can get your system up and running and likely not tax the Hc800 with that set up. And yes, each zone can have its own volume control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 Can't do mqa on hc800 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownBear Posted May 7, 2020 Author Share Posted May 7, 2020 I have a Tidal family account but it is premium and not HiFi so I don't have MQA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownBear Posted May 7, 2020 Author Share Posted May 7, 2020 So if I have a family account on a streaming service like Tidal/Pandora, and I have an HC-800, can my wife, my son and I all select a different song to play in a different zone with the C4-16AMP3? Said another way, can I play a Tidal/Pandora song in the family room, while my wife plays another Tidal/Pandora song in the kitchen and my son plays a third Tidal/Pandora song in his bedroom (assuming the family room, kitchen and kid's room are all separate zones connected to the 16AMP3)? Sorry for all the questions. Just trying to understand how this all compares to if I went for a Sonos system. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 9 minutes ago, BrownBear said: So if I have a family account on a streaming service like Tidal/Pandora, and I have an HC-800, can my wife, my son and I all select a different song to play in a different zone with the C4-16AMP3? Said another way, can I play a Tidal/Pandora song in the family room, while my wife plays another Tidal/Pandora song in the kitchen and my son plays a third Tidal/Pandora song in his bedroom (assuming the family room, kitchen and kid's room are all separate zones connected to the 16AMP3)? Sorry for all the questions. Just trying to understand how this all compares to if I went for a Sonos system. Thanks. I have Pandora. I can only play 1 Pandora stream. I can play it in 1 room or 10 rooms, but only 1 stream. I could set up a 2nd Pandora log in/account and therefore play 2 different ones at the same time. But I just have the cheap Pandora Plus so cannot comment on how C4 would handle Pandora Premium or a "Family" account. Offline, if you want to create a temp password and give it to me I'd try it for you, that said my Audio Matrix is on the fritz so that's another story for another thread, but cannot really help you test it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mujtaba.khokhar Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 I don’t know how accurate this is, But apparently with the family today account you can have multiple instances of the tidal driver loaded I have HiFi single person tidal (it came free with my Mercedes lol) with an ea5 and it sounds great! Let me try running two streams of tidal on my one person account and I’ll get back to you.Thanks M Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownBear Posted May 7, 2020 Author Share Posted May 7, 2020 mujtaba.khokhar that would be super helpful. Thanks! mujtaba.khokhar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mujtaba.khokhar Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 mujtaba.khokhar that would be super helpful. Thanks!Okay so I’ve got some great news for you and I’ve learnt something new myself too lol So I have HiFi tidal and I was able to get 3 separate streams running, I could have probably got 4 running too Here’s a video attached for proof too https://share.icloud.com/photos/04G0dJbiiRqAshnygiGV2tpKQ Thanks M Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownBear Posted May 7, 2020 Author Share Posted May 7, 2020 mujtaba.khokhar - thanks for doing this. You are awesome. So given what you were able to do, do you imagine I could do the same using an HC-800 as my only controller? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mujtaba.khokhar Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 mujtaba.khokhar - thanks for doing this. You are awesome. So given what you were able to do, do you imagine I could do the same using an HC-800 as my only controller? Thanks. Yeah most likely. You should also be able to add multiple instances of tidal and have everyone sign in that way all their playlists etc will show too If you need anything else let me know Thanks MSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo1738 Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 Just did this with Pandora (only have a single plus acct not fabulous or premium) was able to get 2 streams on same login. Have to load driver 2x and named 1 just pandora another wife's pandora but same username and password. May do more but def 2. mujtaba.khokhar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 29 minutes ago, Neo1738 said: Just did this with Pandora (only have a single plus acct not fabulous or premium) was able to get 2 streams on same login. Have to load driver 2x and named 1 just pandora another wife's pandora but same username and password. May do more but def 2. I thought I tried that but the original stream would cut off after the second one would start. Maybe I messed up something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo1738 Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 23 hours ago, eggzlot said: I thought I tried that but the original stream would cut off after the second one would start. Maybe I messed up something Yeah worked for me even skipped a couple songs on 1st stream to be sure it wasn't just buffer or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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