Key Digital announces new 8x8 Component matrix switch KD-MSCAT8x8.

[thecodeman]

http://newsblaze.com/story/2009073004182600001.bw/topstory.html

"The KD-MSCAT8x8 is capable of switching 8 Component/RGBHV Video sources/inputs, to 8 independent zones/outputs, via a single CAT5/6/7 cable with the use of the new Smart Balun Receivers (models KD-VACRX (on wall) & KD-VACWPRX (in wall)). Each input/output supports Component, RGBHV, L/R analog Stereo, PCM Digital Audio, and Bi-Directional RS-232 and IR.

Audio Control is also one of the major attributes that the KD-MSCAT8x8 adds to the installation, with the ability to adjust Volume, Treble, Bass, and Lip Sync, as well as the ability to break away Audio from the Video.

Shielded RJ45 outputs support 100 ohm impedance for best picture quality, giving you the flexibility to use shielded or non-shielded CAT5/6/7 cables.

With Key Digital's versatility, the KD-MSCAT8x8 can also be incrementally expanded in the field to configurations of 6x16, 24x24, 32x32, or 40x40, taking on jobs with all levels of complexity. The KD-MSCAT8x8 makes it a simple installation regardless of the application requirements."

The unit can be controlled by RS232, IR and IP by systems like Control4.

KD-MSCAT8X8 is currently available at an MSRP of $6,500 (matrix switch itself)

KD-VACRX is currently available at an MSRP of $575 (on-wall balun)

KD-VACWPRX is currently available at an MSRP of $625 (in-wall balun)

http://www.keydigital.com/IW_Products.m4p.pvx?;ITEM?ItemCode=KDMSCAT8x8&Company=KEY

[ILoveC4]

KD-MSCAT8X8 is currently available at an MSRP of $6,500 (matrix switch itself)

KD-VACRX is currently available at an MSRP of $575 (on-wall balun)

KD-VACWPRX is currently available at an MSRP of $625 (in-wall balun)

Is it just me, or is Key Digital stuff REALLY expensive?

Sounds like a great product though.

[thecodeman]

It's the only one I know of to send 1080p component video, digital coax, and rs232/ir over a single cat cable to a balun, for 8x8. Sad but true.

[bebster]

Cody, at least it's encouraging to know that it's technically feasible to do it. So I'm sure other manufacturers will catchup in soon.

[thecodeman]

Cody, at least it's encouraging to know that it's technically feasible to do it. So I'm sure other manufacturers will catchup in soon.

Don't get me wrong, if I personally had the money to do it, it would be at my house. But my wife has other plans for "our" money sometimes.

[Jeff at Zektor]

Future versions of the Zektor Prowler and Casino will have control options. Just no way to get it out by our deadline. Compared to KD, we match them on every feature except for control and cascading.

The upcoming release of Casino 16X16 will have the ability to cascade.

Prowler MSRP $4899 vs KD $6500

SoloCAT extenders MSRP $459 vs KD $575 / 625 (wall plate and flush mount receivers are the same price)

More to release at CEDIA.

Thanks.

[thecodeman]

Future versions of the Zektor Prowler and Casino will have control options. Just no way to get it out by our deadline. Compared to KD, we match them on every feature except for control and cascading.

The upcoming release of Casino 16X16 will have the ability to cascade.

Prowler MSRP $4899 vs KD $6500

SoloCAT extenders MSRP $459 vs KD $575 / 625 (wall plate and flush mount receivers are the same price)

More to release at CEDIA.

Thanks.

I'll be stopping by your booth to say hi

[bebster]

The upcoming release of Casino 16X16 will have the ability to cascade.

Can you explain more about "cascading"?

[henniae]

The upcoming release of Casino 16X16 will have the ability to cascade.

Can you explain more about "cascading"?

Hooking one switch into another to have more available ports.

Example. You have one 16x16 switch and need a 32x32 switch. You would hook the two 16x16 switches together to obtain a 32x32 switch. The benefit of cascading the two 16x16 switches are that input sources available to the first 16x16 switch are available to the second 16x16 switch without the need to split the outputs of each source so that each output from a source could be run to the input of each switch.

[rdmzmorgan]

This a relatively old thread, however does the Key Digital KD-MSW4x2PRO support cascading?

http://www.digitalconnection.com/Products/Video/kdmsw4x2pro.asp

I already have one installed and would consider buying another as opposed to another video Switch or the Sony ES video switch.

Appreciate any suggestions or guidance.

[rayk32]

Please help me understand a couple of things.

1. Why are these switchers priced so high? Control4's mission is to manufacture and sell reliable whole-house automation inexpensively, yet video switcher companies haven't grasped this concept. Their pricing models undermine everything that Control4 is trying to do and they can't seem to put out reliable equipment that keeps pace with the changes in technology (i.e. 1080p, HDMI/HDCP and soon to come 3D content). Component video has been around for a long time and I'm pretty sure any further development of component video technology has reached the level of diminished returns, however they insist on repackaging and selling this old technology at premium prices. This is similar to Verizon and other ILEC/CLEC companies continuing to sell T1/DS1, T3/DS3 leased lines at incredibly high prices.

2. Why hasn't Control4 gotten into the game?

[henniae]

Please help me understand a couple of things.

1. Why are these switchers priced so high? Control4's mission is to manufacture and sell reliable whole-house automation inexpensively, yet video switcher companies haven't grasped this concept. Their pricing models undermine everything that Control4 is trying to do and they can't seem to put out reliable equipment that keeps pace with the changes in technology (i.e. 1080p, HDMI/HDCP and soon to come 3D content). Component video has been around for a long time and I'm pretty sure any further development of component video technology has reached the level of diminished returns, however they insist on repackaging and selling this old technology at premium prices. This is similar to Verizon and other ILEC/CLEC companies continuing to sell T1/DS1, T3/DS3 leased lines at incredibly high prices.

2. Why hasn't Control4 gotten into the game?

Highly advanced audio/video switching systems based on overly complex signal transmission systems that were designed by the content providers (i.e. Hollywood) to to limit what, where and who can view their content cost a lot of money to produce and license. In simpler terms you are paying huge $$$ for systems that are designed to limit where you can view the content you have purchased, err licensed. The ONLY reason HDMI exists is to allow Hollywood to limit and control how and where you view the content that they own. Without HDMI Hollywood would not be able to control their content and thus charge you to view it. NEVER EVER believe that HDMI was EVER designed for the benefit of the consumer. The only purpose of HDMI is to control how you view the content that Hollywood produces and owns and thus provide a continuous revenue stream to those who produce and own the content.

[dgbrown]

^ +1

Perfectly put.

[ILoveC4]

^^ +2 =)

HDMI sucks...but 1080P is cool...oh what is an A/V fan supposed to do?

[thecodeman]

^^ +2 =)

HDMI sucks...but 1080P is cool...oh what is an A/V fan supposed to do?

Stick with 1080i and component until it's ironed out because I'll bet you $100 you can't tell the difference on 99% of displays.

[ILoveC4]

^^ +2 =)

HDMI sucks...but 1080P is cool...oh what is an A/V fan supposed to do?

Stick with 1080i and component until it's ironed out because I'll bet you $100 you can't tell the difference on 99% of displays.

Yeah, you're right. I have resisted HDMI up until this point (720p looks great on my Pioneer Elite's), but as the basement is getting closer to being finished and I'm looking into what to do for the big screen in the theater, 1080P is becoming more important. I guess I'll just have to keep it local to that room...for now.

[thecodeman]

^^ +2 =)

HDMI sucks...but 1080P is cool...oh what is an A/V fan supposed to do?

Stick with 1080i and component until it's ironed out because I'll bet you $100 you can't tell the difference on 99% of displays.

Yeah' date=' you're right. I have resisted HDMI up until this point (720p looks great on my Pioneer Elite's), but as the basement is getting closer to being finished and I'm looking into what to do for the big screen in the theater, 1080P is becoming more important. I guess I'll just have to keep it local to that room...for now.[/quote']

That's what we do. Front projection and big screens (60"+) in dedicated theaters where light & sound control are possible and PQ is paramount - local HDMI sources.

[rayk32]

@ henniae

Thanks for the great answer as to the existence of HDMI/HDCP, but you didn't touch on the the high cost of component video switchers ... which as I understand it shouldn't be subjected to the licensing fees you mentioned. Are the switcher companies using OEM parts or designing their own specialized ASICs and processors? I wonder if a commodity desktop computer with component video inputs/ouputs and open-source software that handles the matrix switching is possible?

I'm guessing only C4 can answer the question as to why they produce audio switchers, but none for video.

I can definitely wrap my head around Hollywood's desire to control their content and generate never ending licensing fees ... for that, I would think they'd produce much better content to go along with those exorbitant fees ;-)

[henniae]

@ henniae

Thanks for the great answer as to the existence of HDMI/HDCP, but you didn't touch on the the high cost of component video switchers ... which as I understand it shouldn't be subjected to the licensing fees you mentioned.

The component video switches that were mentioned in this post are not just a switch. They also include a transmitters/receivers to send the component signal over 1 or 2 cat-5e cables. They also have a lot of other features which drives up the cost.

You can find less expensive component switches like the Video Storm that does not include extra hardware to transmit the signal over Cat-5e but then you would have to provide some other way to deliver the signal throughout your house.

[dgbrown]

You can say what you want about component switch r&d, and manufacturing costs but this market is no different than others. It's essentially price fixed based on alternative costs. Same with the baluns, and 5x2 rg6 cable suppliers. You're going to pay one way or another.

Unless you buy pre-owned, or yesterdays model (you can pick up yesterday's model of the AA comp/cat5 dist switch for $1,800 new if you can find one).

Depending on your needs you can pick up a new 4x4 aton with 4 wall plates for $1,200.

Just saying ....

[rayk32]

@henniae - Thanks for the response.

@dgbrown - Thanks for the information. What's the word on ATON and how well does it integrate with C4? I've never heard anyone talking about this product in the forum. Interesting that it is expandable to 8x8.

[rayk32]

Just found the ATON threads.

[RyanE]

Making video switchers is (and this is COMPLETELY my opinion, not Control4's):

1) a very moving target

2) subject to a *lot* of licensing / i.e. HDCP, etc.

3) requires a *lot* of SKUs, and or custom made product

4) is not Control4's core competency

5) would take a separate large and expensive engineering team

In short, producing what *many* Control4 consumers would want and purchase is a pretty tall order, and is already filled quite well by Control4 partners, some of whom *are* developing alternatives that are somewhat lower priced than the current leaders.

High bandwidth, distortion free switching does not come cheaply, and sometimes, you *do* get what you pay for.

RyanE

[dgbrown]

Just found the ATON threads.

Aton is a an IR controlled 4x4 switch. It does not have break away audio switching which in some larger/complex installations may be a requirement. If your needs are straight forward, switch audio/video pairs to the same outputs with not more than 4 inputs and 8 outputs (you can loop 2 atons together to get a 4x8 I believe), then it will likely fit your bill. It's not expensive and distributes your 4/8 output zones over cat 5 or traditional connectors. You can buy the wall plates (read receivers) with the switch as a kit -- just add your own cat5.

I don't think an official driver exists but I seem to recall one floating around. Worst case your dealer can create one pretty easily. Also, in terms of brand I'm pretty sure Aton falls under the same umbrella Co. that produces Elan.

Audio Authority has an 4x4 in the $800 to $900 range too. No cat5 though. This is an example of lower price point products coming to market as Ryan suggested in the previous post.