How to Coordinate Three Channels of Surround Sound via Matrix Amp (different Video Source and Audio Source configs)

[WhyPhy]

I'm trying to figure out how to coordinate 3 zones of audio from a matrix amp in a single room. They need to behave differently for Audio Sources vs. Video Sources.

• When an Audio Source is selected, all 3 zones should switch to the same audio source, and the matrix amp volumes should stay synchronized
• When a video source is selected, each of the 3 zones needs to switch to its own unique surround analog input, and the amp volumes should stay at 100% with the analog input controlling the volume level (except when an audio announcement occurs.)

Neither the Room Control Driver nor Media Scenes quite seem to do everything needed for both the audio and video scenarios. But I've probably missed some obvious capabilities. Custom programming seems to be able to address assigning the different inputs as necessary, but doesn't seem to be able to sync volume across the 3 matrix audio zones.

Configuration Details:

• EA5 Controller
• Video Setup: Apple TV -> Denon Receiver > LG TV (HDMI)
• Audio Setup for Video:
  • Denon Receiver powers Front/Center/Right Speakers for Video
    • The receiver is Video's Audio Endpoint 1 in target room
  • Denon Front Surround Analog Out to AudioControl Director M6800 Zone 6 to Front Surround Speakers
    • This zone is set as Audio Endpoint 1 in target room, using Generic AV Device #1 to discretely set the correct input
  • Denon Rear Surround Analog Out to AudioControl Director M6800 Zone 7 to Rear Surround Speakers (in Ceiling)
    • This zone is in hidden room 2, using Generic AV Device #2 to discretely set the correct input
  • Denon Subs Analog Out to AudioControl Director M6800 Zone 8 to Passive Subwoofers (Currently in hidden room 3)
    • This zone is in hidden room 3, using Generic AV Device #3 to discretely set the correct input
• Audio Setup for Audio Only
  • EA5 Digital and Analog Outputs to Various Other AudioControl Director M6800 Inputs

 

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

[cnicholson]

I assume this would have occurred to you and I must be missing something, but I'm curious why not just drive speakers from AVR and feed EA5 output to AVR input (directly or indirectly via Matrix).  Audio would play in "Multi-Ch Stereo" and video would use Dolby (or whatever). 

Edited September 18, 2023 by cnicholson

[WhyPhy]

7 hours ago, cnicholson said:

I assume this would have occurred to you and I must be missing something, but I'm curious why not just drive speakers from AVR and feed EA5 output to AVR input (directly or indirectly via Matrix).  Audio would play in "Multi-Ch Stereo" and video would use Dolby (or whatever). 

Yes, that would be so much easier! The main reason for not doing this is Audio Announcements, so that they play on the overhead speakers and don't interrupt video with source switching, etc. Also, when listening to music, I only want audio from the overhead speakers and not the soundbar.

[RAV]

Two Rooms - Theater and Family Music
Three 4PDT relays.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QXYPJH7/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[WhyPhy]

6 hours ago, RAV said:

Two Rooms - Theater and Family Music
Three 4PDT relays.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QXYPJH7/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I thought you’d come up with the perfect solution. But then I realized the Denon receiver cannot power the passive subs. The only amp that I have that can power them is the AudioControl Matrix amp. So I think I’m back to square one…

[RAV]

1 hour ago, WhyPhy said:

I thought you’d come up with the perfect solution. But then I realized the Denon receiver cannot power the passive subs. The only amp that I have that can power them is the AudioControl Matrix amp. So I think I’m back to square one…

And I suppose you want the subs to play with the music room too?

Can that amp's internal setup (not using Control4 at all) have a zone track another zone's volume and source using the group feature that's shown in the manual?

 

 

 

 

 

[WhyPhy]

2 hours ago, RAV said:

Can that amp's internal setup (not using Control4 at all) have a zone track another zone's volume and source using the group feature that's shown in the manual?

Yes, that’s the way those 3 AudioControl Matrix zones were originally configured when it was audio only. They have to all share the same input and volume level when in that mode, and the amp handles the crossovers. 

[RAV]

Two Actual Rooms: Theater and Family Music
Fake Room: TheSubs
Default: Family Music

Use a Line Out Converter on the Family Music speakers at the matrix output and then run that back into the matrix as an input.
That way the Theater Receiver handles sub volume for surround, and the Family Music zone output handles sub volume for music.
https://www.audiocontrol.com/car-audio/factory-system-upgrade/lc2i-pro/

Family turns on - set TheSubs to input 7, open relay

Theater turns on - set TheSubs to input 8, close relay

Announcement - open relay, play announcement, delay, if theater is on close relay

 

[WhyPhy]

@RAV Thanks for putting so much time into this and especially for the diagrams. I think I can accomplish what you're showing in the last diagram without the Line Output Converter and perhaps even simpler programming. Let me know if this makes sense.

Split the room into 2 virtual rooms: Theater Room and Music Room

Speakers: Combine all 3 zones into a singe grouped zone in the AudioControl amp. This will sync the volume across the group. Set the AudioControl crossovers so the 4 surround speakers play above 120Hz and 2 Subs play below 120Hz. Set the Denon receiver crossover so all speakers play above 120Hz and subs play below 120Hz.

When the Music Room plays music:

• Single source plays to a combined AudioControl group using all 6 speakers
• Room volume is synced by the amp across all 6 speakers in the group

When Theater Room Turns On:

• activate the relays and the 4 speakers switch to being powered by the Denon Receiver (subs remain connected to the AudioControl amp)
• Set the Music Room to a "Denon Subwoofer" Generic A/V source, which is the line level source from the receiver, and set the room volume to 100%
  • All sound will be below 120Hz and will play on the subwoofers only (powered by the AudioControl amp)
  • The other 4 speakers will be disconnected from the matrix amp, and those channels won't be receiving any sound anyway due to the crossovers
• Denon receiver amps control speaker volume, Denon line level out controls subwoofer volume
• When programming an announcement
  • if relays are activated: deactivate relay, play announcement, reactivate relay (in music room)
  • if relays are not activated: play announcement (in music room)

 

I hope this sounds feasible. I just ordered 2 relays!

[RAV]

When programming an announcement

• if relays are activated: deactivate relay, play announcement, reactivate relay (in music room)
• if relays are not activated: play announcement (in music room)

This is the messy part, which is why I suggested the LOC, less chance of oops and more adjustable levels and crossover.
You've got the volume of the music zone at 100% to pass through the sub level from the receiver.
You'll have to adjust the volume down before the announcement and reset it after, and if it misses or delay or something you could end up very loud and or damage the speakers.
And your announcement is going to go through the sub too
You'll also have to futz a bit with the pass through volume and receiver sub output levels to have them balanced to music level subs
And you'll have one crossover point for the sub for both music and surround, depends on the gear and room.

Yes in theory though