Roon & Control 4 - Odd Integration?

[PaulAV9]

Hi, I am new to control 4. I had it installed last week. I previously had a harmony system for 10 over years. My question is on how the installer integrated Roon. I am not happy with how it is set up but wanted to inform myself a bit before contacting the installer.

System details for Roon and this music listening function: Roon Nucleus as my core/server. Bluesound node as my endpoint going into my Anthem AVM 90 via digital coax. 

On my Harmony I had a simple activity set up that would start the AVM, Switch inputs to the Node Coax, I would then control Roon with my iPad (selecting music, play pause...). I could only use the Harmony remote for volume, (no play/pause, skip song). Now with C4 I can control those additional functions but I dont care for how it is set up and while talking with the installer he had no idea what roon was so I am thinking there may have been a different or additional driver that should have been installed for possibly better integration.

My issue is it takes several clicks to get to where I want to be and most annoying it always auto plays on start up. So a song starts sometimes pretty cranked up and its jarring and is the last song that was played where ever i left off. I think things could be better. I think this was set up as a bluesound node "activity" and not roon. (I use the word activity because I am using harmony lingo as I do not know the proper C4 term).

Here are screens of the 3 steps it takes to get music going.

Then it auto plays whatever song was played last where ever it left off.

I do not need to choose my music on the remote nor want to. I use my iPad for that (to browse and select music using the Roon app) I do want to be able to control volume, skip song, play/pause on the C4 Remote though. I also do not need all the bluesound node presets playlists screen since I never use blue os, I use roon for playlist etc. ---> roon has my collection which consists of Qobuz streaming service and my locally stored music. The node is ONLY an endpoint.

Any help or knowledge would be appreciated. Just want to get some info before contacting the installer.

NOTE: I know I cannot change anything in the system a it is a C4 installer thing. My goal is to educate myself a bit before I have the conversation for them to change this. I did my due diligence with google searches and see there are Roon C4 drivers but wondered if someone with knowledge could shed a little light on the way this should have or could have been set up.

[EdC4Tx]

Based on your post it sounds like you maybe should stick with the old setup with the harmony remote. Your dealer can set a default volume for music so when you play a song it dosent not play loudly when you first fire it up. If most of your music is on Qoboz your dealer can install the Qoboz driver for C4. C4 works best when you steam music from the controller using one of their streaming platforms. Unfortunately there is no way for the installer to change the layout of your remote. It’s best to fire up your music from the C4 mobile app it’s what most people use to start music in a room. The best use case for the remote is to change channels and turn a room on or off. You will have to click on a couple of pages to access your Roon. Ask your dealer about adding Roon to your home page which might eliminate one step only. Hope this helps 

[PaulAV9]

Thanks for the reply. I see there are Roon drivers for C4. Maybe that is what I need.

https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/control4

Using the Harmony is not an option though. Dont want two remotes - kind of defeats the purpose and just paid a good chunk of change for this setup. There must be some Roon users out there with Control 4 setups. I posted on the Roon forums to see what they have going.

Anyways, asking the dealer to do a default volume (or even mute) for music and adding Roon to the home page are very helpful suggestions. Wish there was a way to stop it from auto playing a song when it starts up. Thanks again.

 

[ekohn00]

12 hours ago, PaulAV9 said:

Thanks for the reply. I see there are Roon drivers for C4. Maybe that is what I need.

https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/control4

Using the Harmony is not an option though. Dont want two remotes - kind of defeats the purpose and just paid a good chunk of change for this setup. There must be some Roon users out there with Control 4 setups. I posted on the Roon forums to see what they have going.

Anyways, asking the dealer to do a default volume (or even mute) for music and adding Roon to the home page are very helpful suggestions. Wish there was a way to stop it from auto playing a song when it starts up. Thanks again.

 

I also use Roon and there are a few ways to have it work. I use the bluesound node too. If you search this board, I had written up the connection scenarios for Roon when my memory was clear.

The first thing you want to do is have your installer use the Roon drivers. This will allow you to control the music selection through Control4. There are 2 drivers, one for the server and one for every room you will stream to. 

Without it you'd probably be selecting the node as your device, then selecting ROON for the node playback (actually think the blusound will autoselect roon when playing roon), then going to the Roon app to select the music. The control4 driver also works with the roon app, so if you're like me, you might go to the control4 display and select roon but later control future music selections from the roon app.

Hope that helps for now.

PS....you can contol voume from contol4.

PSS..make sure the blusound is set up correctly first, if something like siriusXM or Airplay from the bluesound isn't working, don't expect Roon to.

 

 

 

[PaulAV9]

Thank you so much ekohn00. Thats exactly what I want!

My server is a Roon Nucleus, my endpoint is the node. I want the Control 4 remote to control volume on my processor and transport controls (pause, skip track, etc...) for Roon. I browse and select my music using the Roon app on my ipad. The bluesound node is "just there" so to speak as an endpoint. As for making sure the bluesound node is set up correctly, Roon works perfectly fine on it now so no issues there, has worked perfect for over a year. Sows up as an endpoint. Unless I am missing something I believe I am all good there. Node and Roon was very easy to set up. Its just moving from the Harmony setup to Control 4 is the challenge. As mentioned the installer surprisingly did not know what roon was and looks like he just set it up for the bluesound node instead of Roon.

Thank you again, I will search for your post. I did a search before posting this and could not find anything. I will look again. I am new to the forum (first post) so if your feeling really kind and have time shoot me a link to the post you referenced. Dont want to seem greedy with your helpfulness though. Your post got me heading in the right direction and is much appreciated. My heart kind of sunk after spending a bunch of cash on a C4 setup and installation to have this function not work they way I thought it could. Now I know it can.

[PaulAV9]

Found your post. This is it right?

Quote

 

I am doing exactly what you're looking to do....

Have your dealer install the drivers posted on GitHub.    https://github.com/RoonLabs/control4-roon-driver

You don't need a nucleus with these drivers, I run a macmini. Roon driver is now all opensource.

You'll have 2 ways to control music with Roon -> either through the Roon app or through Control4 interface. The Roon driver in control4 will also show tidal. So just to be really confusing, you can also control Tidal direct through control4 or via roon through control4 or through Roon direct.....

 

I use a Roon Nucleus as my core/server. Node as the endpoint. I need my installer to install 2 drivers correct? One for the nucleus (server) and one for the room?

[SpencerT]

On 1/15/2024 at 12:58 PM, PaulAV9 said:

My issue is it takes several clicks to get to where I want to be and most annoying it always auto plays on start up.

Both of these are easy fixes. You can favorite (press and hold) the roon to the home screen of that room so you click once and it's ready, and you (through HE) or your dealer can disable auto play and clear the queue each time it starts as well. 

Default room volumes are also easy to set. 

[ekohn00]

14 minutes ago, PaulAV9 said:

Found your post. This is it right?

I use a Roon Nucleus as my core/server. Node as the endpoint. I need my installer to install 2 drivers correct? One for the nucleus (server) and one for the room?

That's it. Glad you found it, I totally forgot the drivers are on git now.

the driver labeled core is the server and the other goes in every room you stream to. (only 1 blusound usually means only 1 driver). I was also thinking of adding another bluesound (would be the third) or pi to get coax/fiber connection to my processor - right now i just go room to Heos which does provide hi-res, and could recommend how to if you had a Heos reciever in the house too.

How do you like that Anthem? I almost went with 90 8k and was excited they talked about Roon integration - which never happened but ended up with the AV10 now that it added Dirac.

Once the C4 roon is set, you can also favorite music too.

Good luck.

 

 

 

[PaulAV9]

6 hours ago, SpencerT said:

Both of these are easy fixes. You can favorite the roon to the home screen of that room so you click once and it's ready, and you (through HE) or your dealer can disable auto play and clear the queue each time it starts as well. 

Default room volumes are also easy to set. 

Thanks! I am going to get HE so I can do some stuff myself. Is it hard to learn or somewhat intuitive? 

[SpencerT]

Intuitive once you get the hang of it. Strongly suggest you use the training videos from @Matt Lowe or talk with your dealer about buying some training time.

[PaulAV9]

6 hours ago, ekohn00 said:

That's it. Glad you found it, I totally forgot the drivers are on git now.

the driver labeled core is the server and the other goes in every room you stream to. (only 1 blusound usually means only 1 driver). I was also thinking of adding another bluesound (would be the third) or pi to get coax/fiber connection to my processor - right now i just go room to Heos which does provide hi-res, and could recommend how to if you had a Heos reciever in the house too.

How do you like that Anthem? I almost went with 90 8k and was excited they talked about Roon integration - which never happened but ended up with the AV10 now that it added Dirac.

Once the C4 roon is set, you can also favorite music too.

Good luck.

Thanks again! This is great. Feeling a lot better. Between getting the correct drivers and having my dealer do those and then I can get and use HE to fine tune some customization if needed.

I love the Anthem AVM 90. I had an AVM 70 for a year and loved it so upgraded to the 90. Its amazing. Your AV10 is supposed to be pretty awesome too. Yes still no Roon on the Anthems. Have the streamer though. My luck, I will get all this sorted then Anthem will finally add roon nativily to it and I wont need the node, lol.

 

[PaulAV9]

6 minutes ago, SpencerT said:

Intuitive once you get the hang of it. Strongly suggest you use the training videos from @Matt Lowe or talk with your dealer about buying some training time.

Thank you. Thats a great way of putting it "Intuitive once you get the hang of it". I will look into some videos 

[ekohn00]

37 minutes ago, PaulAV9 said:

Thanks! I am going to get HE so I can do some stuff myself. Is it hard to learn or somewhat intuitive? 

I don't think you need HE to favorite anything.

Very easy from either a touch panel or ipad. Long press allows favorite to room screen.

[PaulAV9]

Thanks. Forgot about that. Have not really used the app (mainly Halo remote).

[SpencerT]

5 hours ago, ekohn00 said:

I don't think you need HE to favorite anything.

Very easy from either a touch panel or ipad. Long press allows favorite to room screen.

You do not need HE to add a favorite that already displays in the navigator. 

As many others have mentioned in this forum, "press and hold everything" in a navigator or UI to see what you can do. 

My suggestion on HE was simply to control default room volumes, clear queue, or hide the blue sound node, per OP.

[PaulAV9]

On 1/16/2024 at 7:55 AM, ekohn00 said:

I also use Roon and there are a few ways to have it work. I use the bluesound node too. If you search this board, I had written up the connection scenarios for Roon when my memory was clear.

The first thing you want to do is have your installer use the Roon drivers. This will allow you to control the music selection through Control4. There are 2 drivers, one for the server and one for every room you will stream to. 

Without it you'd probably be selecting the node as your device, then selecting ROON for the node playback (actually think the blusound will autoselect roon when playing roon), then going to the Roon app to select the music. The control4 driver also works with the roon app, so if you're like me, you might go to the control4 display and select roon but later control future music selections from the roon app.

Hope that helps for now.

PS....you can contol voume from contol4.

PSS..make sure the blusound is set up correctly first, if something like siriusXM or Airplay from the bluesound isn't working, don't expect Roon to.

 

 

 

@ekohn00

Follow up question. Are you able to pause/play, skip forward and back with the C4 remote control (in my case a Halo). I will mainly use the roon app on my ipad but do use the fwd back play pause on the remote as well.

Installer made some changes today but I do not think its there yet. It looks like this now. Seems to still be the Bluesound (BlueOS interface). Not Roon. I think his concern is how I control the playback (pause play ffw rew) on the node when its roon - my guess is it is roon that controls the endpoint which is the node so all that needs to be done is install the roon drivers, Is that correct? He said he installled the roon drivers but I still think something is missing and this is not the full roon setup for C4. Maybe he only installed one roon driver or installed both but still pointed to blu os thinking he had to. My head hurts from all this.

[ekohn00]

So if he used the Roon Zone driver and has all the settings right, you should see this:

I can actually work through my roon menu directly.

It looks like he has you selecting everything through the bluesound

 

 

[PaulAV9]

I cant really do anything with it. Just that one screen on the ipad. On the remote it gets wonky if I try to do anything. This is putting a real damper on my first venture into C4. Getting frustrating. Really appreciate your help though. 

Am I correct in thinking that the C4 remote should control roon (play pause etc) and roon in turn controls the endpoint. In this case the node. If that is correct I do not need bluesound drivers in the mix. Just the 2 roon drivers you mentioned installed. I may have to seek a different installer that is more familiar with how roon works. Certainly no disrepect to the person doing the install its just they may be lacking in experience with what roon is and does.

PS: thanks for your patience helping me. Didnt think I would have to figure this out myself. Thought I would just pay for the install and boom done.

[ekohn00]

@PaulAV9 don’t hate c4….. you actually have one of the most confusing things going. 
 

with Bluesound node and Roon there are 2 ways to play Roon.  
 

1. Bluesound way. (I think you’re doing it). As you know Bluesound has c4 drivers.  And mini drivers.  The mini driver selects the stream (xm, tidal, Spotify, Roon, etc).  If you select Roon either from the Bluesound main driver or mini, I believe you need to use either Roon itself or go into the Bluesound app to select Roon music. 
 

2 the C4 Roon way. This uses the  loudoun as an endpoint and just talks to the Roon server to select music.  Roon app is not needed at all

hopefully this helps your dealer on how to set it up.   

[PaulAV9]

@ekohn00 Thanks for the words of encouragement and additional info. I will get there. I am sure once I get over these few initial hurdles I will be loving C4.