Kwikset Dead Bolt - need more programming ability

[Bedspread]

Pushing the lock button doesn't mean that the house is empty and so you would not have your alarm system go to AWAY state based on the lock button being pushed. There should be a way to enter a code then the lock button to change actions that occur.

I have found very few uses so far for the kwikset lock.

When the alarm is set to stay or away the programming triggers lock.

Also email is sent to notify which user unlocked it.

Lights go on when the house is unlocked (but I already had this with door sensors so not a new event).

[CFUG]

There are those that think that too much automation is silly... Frankly, a hide-a-key is all I need.

[jberger]

Why not just use a specific code for lock and arm?

I've had the original model (non-zigbee) for about 10 years and I found it very convenient. The new model is even better since it integrates with the system.

Just of couple of examples of how I've used it.

1) Set a guest code when we have guest's staying for a few days. They can come and go as they please without having to deal with carrying a spare house key, which lock do we use, etc.

2) Set a code for the pest control guy so I know when he arrives, how long he stays, etc.

3) Let someone in to water the plants and clear out the mailbox while we are out, without needing a key. If they have a problem and can't make it, I just call a neighbor and give them a code they can use. etc. etc.

Personally, I haven't carried a house key since I replaced the locks, I use a code everytime.

[Bedspread]

Why not just use a specific code for lock and arm?

That's right! Except the codes are only for unlocking.

When you leave the house, you press the lock button. The codes are for unlock only.

So, what I'm saying is that using the Kwikset lock through the C4 system has limited uses. So far I am not impressed with it and maybe it's because the driver needs more functionality to enable more useful programming.

It would be useful to have a code that can be used when locking so that the house could be set in an AWAY state with alarm set to AWAY and other states that would be triggered by the lock being locked.

However.....just pressing the lock button (without a specific code) would simply lock the door. After all, just because you lock the door from the outside does not mean that you want the house to be set to an AWAY state. Someone could be home!!!

Another shortcoming: If someone tries entering the wrong code, there is presently no way for that to trigger events in C4. That's a pretty basic and understandable ability that should be available.

Anyway, so far the Kwikset lock is not impressing me as a wonderful addition to my C4 system. Not enough programming choices to really make it usable.

[akg4y]

Are you sure the lock button doesnt show up in Composer HE? I dont have one of these but it would be surprising for them not to allow programming with ANY button that is part of the C4 system.

Regarding the fact C4 cant recognize an incorrect code... that is a pretty big shortcoming. You can probably program around it though... something that would require programming for each key though. Maybe something like whenever any key is pressed it initiates a timer (20 sec). If a correct unlock code is pressed then stop the timer. If not, the wrong code event occurs when the timer expires.

[Bedspread]

The LOCK button can trigger events. That is not the point that I'm trying to make.

The lock button can trigger events but it is not smart locking in the sense there is only LOCK but not CODE+LOCK.

I would like to see a LOCK and also a CODE+LOCK. The CODE+LOCK would differentiate a LOCK state from a LOCK state with AWAY events such as setting the alarm system, random lighting, etc.

Right now as it stands, the LOCK can trigger events but there is no way to differentiate different types of LOCK states.

i.e. what is someone is home when you lock the door from the lock button? You don't want to set an AWAY state. What if someone is not home and you do want to set an away state? There is no way to differentiate different LOCK states.

Hopefully that's more clear.

[akg4y]

What if you did a LOCK + CODE. ie program a code such that if the door is locked it triggers your event?

EDIT: I see your point, and it is valid, Im just trying to give you ideas on how to do what you want to do until they do make it better.

[ILoveC4]

You could also do a multi-tap with the lock button. Two or three taps would also arm the alarm. Wouldn't that work?

[Bedspread]

You could also do a multi-tap with the lock button. Two or three taps would also arm the alarm. Wouldn't that work?

No. Unfortunately the Kwikset LOCK button can't be programmed like a C4 keypad/switch. This button is a simple push button. One press is all that registers and it does not pass that button press to C4.

Through some experimenting I did solve one of the issues, however. Even though there is no simple way to identify an incorrect unlock code entry, I discovered that if someone enters three consecutive incorrect entry codes, the lock will send a USER 0 (instread of 1 - 30) to C4 and that USER_CODE=0 can be used to trigger events. So if someone is trying random codes then you can turn on lights, alarms, etc. whatever you want to do.

It's kind of a work around but it works fine.

Another thing I realized is that having the ability to do Smart Locking is ok for many things but it is NOT OK for setting the alarm system to AWAY.

This is because the AWAY state on an alarm system must be done at the keypad and then a perimeter door must open and then close for the AWAY state to take effect. Therefore, having a smart LOCK button would not work for setting the alarm system to away because you are already outside with the door closed and therefore the alarm sys will not see the perimeter door open and close to confirm the AWAY state.

EDIT:

The USER_CODE=0 is not a reliable way to detect invalid entry codes. I've been testing it for a while today and it is inconsistent.

[Bedspread]

What if you did a LOCK + CODE. ie program a code such that if the door is locked it triggers your event?

EDIT: I see your point, and it is valid, Im just trying to give you ideas on how to do what you want to do until they do make it better.

Sounds good in theory but once you set up a usercode then it will unlock the door. So if you press LOCK + CODE (as the driver presently works) then the door will unlock.

There is presently not a way to make a code that will NOT unlock the door.

You could use a usercode that will RELOCK (through c4 programming) the door within a few seconds of it unlocking and also trigger some events. That is probably the only way this would work presently.

You can also use your key to lock the door because a manual locking is differentiated from a button locking in the C4 driver. So this "smart locking" can be done by using the key instead of the button.

All work arounds but not great solutions.

[thecodeman]

It was mentioned at CES that with 2.0 "additional functionality" of the lock would be provided through the app from Black & Decker for this lock. I wonder if this will address your issue.

[Bedspread]

It was mentioned at CES that with 2.0 "additional functionality" of the lock would be provided through the app from Black & Decker for this lock. I wonder if this will address your issue.

Cody,

How has the lock been used in the projects that you're doing for clients? What types of automated events are you triggering from this lock?

Thanks.

[ILoveC4]

You could also do a multi-tap with the lock button. Two or three taps would also arm the alarm. Wouldn't that work?

No. Unfortunately the Kwikset LOCK button can't be programmed like a C4 keypad/switch. This button is a simple push button. One press is all that registers and it does not pass that button press to C4.

Through some experimenting I did solve one of the issues' date=' however. Even though there is no simple way to identify an incorrect unlock code entry, I discovered that if someone enters three consecutive incorrect entry codes, the lock will send a USER 0 (instread of 1 - 30) to C4 and that USER_CODE=0 can be used to trigger events. So if someone is trying random codes then you can turn on lights, alarms, etc. whatever you want to do.

It's kind of a work around but it works fine.

Another thing I realized is that having the ability to do Smart Locking is ok for many things but it is NOT OK for setting the alarm system to AWAY.

This is because the AWAY state on an alarm system must be done at the keypad and then a perimeter door must open and then close for the AWAY state to take effect. Therefore, having a smart LOCK button would not work for setting the alarm system to away because you are already outside with the door closed and therefore the alarm sys will not see the perimeter door open and close to confirm the AWAY state.[/quote']

I still think you could do it. Just have that button press increment a variable, just like any multi-tap. I am having a hard time seeing why that wouldn't work.

It won't get around your alarm needing the door to open and close issue though...

[Bedspread]

I still think you could do it. Just have that button press increment a variable, just like any multi-tap. I am having a hard time seeing why that wouldn't work.

You can't count button presses on this lock. C4 doesn't see the presses. C4 gets notified when the lock changes state.

You're riight though. If it worked like a C4 keypad/switch, then we'd have easy programming solutions. Only Black and Decker and C4 know what v2.0 will bring in the way of enhancements to the driver.

[thecodeman]

It was mentioned at CES that with 2.0 "additional functionality" of the lock would be provided through the app from Black & Decker for this lock. I wonder if this will address your issue.

Cody' date='

How has the lock been used in the projects that you're doing for clients? What types of automated events are you triggering from this lock?

Thanks.[/quote']

I haven't integrated them yet on any of my projects, but Bryan has them at his home in St. Louis. I'll have him check it out when he gets a chance.

[Bedspread]

A workaround for setting the alarm system to AWAY state from the door lock:

Two conditions necessitated this workaround:

My alarm (most alarms) require a perimeter door be opened and then closed during the AWAY cycle. Otherwise, the alarm will reset to STAY mode.

The LOCK doesn't pass entry codes to C4 unless the lock is in LOCK state.

So, what I did is set up a special usercode (I call it my AWAY user code).

You close the door, hit Lock. Then punch in the AWAY code.

C4 programming causes the alarm to go into AWAY state and the door unlocks so that you can open it and close it.

Once the door is closed again, the programming causes the lock to LOCK again and the Alarm counts down to set the AWAY state.

Works well but does require that the door be locked before entering the special AWAY unlock code.

[mxjason]

Couldn't you just add a fake door to the alarm system and run it through the C4 relay? Program the away code to set the alarm to away, the open and close the C4 relay faking the alarm into thinking the door has opened and closed. Doors are nothing more than contact closures. Right?

[ILoveC4]

Couldn't you just add a fake door to the alarm system and run it through the C4 relay? Program the away code to set the alarm to away, the open and close the C4 relay faking the alarm into thinking the door has opened and closed. Doors are nothing more than contact closures. Right?

Good idea.

[Bedspread]

Couldn't you just add a fake door to the alarm system and run it through the C4 relay? Program the away code to set the alarm to away, the open and close the C4 relay faking the alarm into thinking the door has opened and closed. Doors are nothing more than contact closures. Right?

Definitely could be done. Two issues for me are that at present I have maxed out the alarm zones and am not familiar enough with the wiring of my alarm system to DIY. For now this is going to have to suffice.

[mxjason]

Just intercept the wire going to the door with the lock and run it through the relay box. Keep it in the closed position at all times except when using the away code and the alarm won't know the difference.

[Bedspread]

Just intercept the wire going to the door with the lock and run it through the relay box. Keep it in the closed position at all times except when using the away code and the alarm won't know the difference.

Thanks. Great suggestion. I appreciate it.

I will need to get into my alarm box and start to understand where each contact switch connection is located. It's the only place that I can intercept those wires cleanly.

Thanks again.

We still have the minor issue that the lock only sends the code to c4 if it's in LOCKED state. So, the AWAY code will still cause unlocking and the programming will relock it immediately while also opening the fake door contact.

[Bedspread]

I posted something incorrect in an earlier post. Upon further testing:

The USER_CODE=0 is not a reliable way to detect invalid entry codes. I've been testing it for a while today and it is inconsistent.