Right config for the following? Denon AVR vs. Control4 amp/switch

[mschmier]

I'm creating a mutli-zone sound system. There will be my home entertainment system plus three other zones (bedroom, kitchen, outside). My main goal is to be able to play my itunes from my IMAC from any zone. In fact, I'd like to be able to play different music from my iTunes library in different zones at the same time.

My dealer said I need the following components:

Control 4 brain - 600

Control 4 matrix switch 1200

Control 4 audio amp 2500

Optional touch pad 1200

Does this sound right for what I want to do? Is there any reason, I wouldn't by a 9-channel Dennon 4810ci AVR with three additional zones to do the same thing. That would cut out the need for the switch and the amp so it would be cheaper. Thoughts?

[Letran]

Is this an addtion to your current system?

I do not see why you would need a matrix switch you would only typically need it if you have more than 8 zones and combining two control4 amps to share zones together.

You would probably need an HC200 as oppose to an HC 300. But for growth HC300 is advisable

I also do not see any dimmers/keypads etc which are non-sleepy or parental zigbee nodes. Having only a c4 remote might lose connection all the time. (this was just explained to me so I'm not too sure)

When you say touch pad is that a c4 touchscreen or an Ipad

Receivers have their own limitations and lag time. Not familiar with this Denon receiver?

[mschmier]

They say the matrix switch is for this . . .being be able to play different music from my iTunes library in different zones at the same time. Pad is the C4 touchscreen.

[pharmdsmith]

The amp has a built in switch. So if you have an 8 zone amp, and only plan to have 8 or less zones then you don't need the switch.

[dogdvr]

Pharm,

He wants 4 zones so the smaller 4 zone amp will work.

Still no need for the matrix as it is built into the 4 zone amp.

You do not need a C4 touch panel for this setup but it might be advisable if you want to add cameras and popup announcements.

Brent

[pharmdsmith]

^Very true. If they aren't going above 4 zones anytime soon, save some money and get the 4 zone amp.

[ILoveC4]

Get a new dealer is my advice...this guy is giving you strange advice...unless you have about 12 other sources you're not telling us about =)

[crazybuppie]

Get a new dealer is my advice...this guy is giving you strange advice...unless you have about 12 other sources you're not telling us about =)

This is a bit premature....we obviously do not have all of the information.

What if the dealer is planning to route line level audio to a few zones? Maybe *that's* why there is an AMX on the quote.

Maybe they are planning for expansion down the road.

Let's not jump the gun and tell him to ditch his dealer just yet.

[C4Newbie]

I am currently having difficulty controlling my 3 zones with my denon receiver. Can I just add a 4 zone C4 Amp and keep my receiver or will I get seamless control of my zones with a Denon AVR-4311CI? I figure the money is better spent on the new Denon if that will give me seamless control of the multiple zones. Currently I have problems mostly with FM radio when adding and removing from zones. Rhapsody seems to work better.

[ichbinbose]

your better off using the denon for surround sound only, and using a C4 amp for multi zone audio

[ILoveC4]

your better off using the denon for surround sound only, and using a C4 amp for multi zone audio

+1

[nikon]

I'm creating a mutli-zone sound system. There will be my home entertainment system plus three other zones (bedroom, kitchen, outside). My main goal is to be able to play my itunes from my IMAC from any zone. In fact, I'd like to be able to play different music from my iTunes library in different zones at the same time.

My dealer said I need the following components:

Control 4 brain - 600

Control 4 matrix switch 1200

Control 4 audio amp 2500

Optional touch pad 1200

Does this sound right for what I want to do? Is there any reason, I wouldn't by a 9-channel Dennon 4810ci AVR with three additional zones to do the same thing. That would cut out the need for the switch and the amp so it would be cheaper. Thoughts?

As with the others I dont believe that the matrix is needed. It is only needed if you require more than 8 sources.

You say you would like to have different music available in different rooms you may need more equipment judging from what you listed here. I am assuming that the brain unit you are getting is an HC300. If so, I am almost tempted to just say get an additional "brain" for the extra 2 digital outs for 600 bucks which should be cheaper than multiple sonos units or iMacs and related Extra Vegetables drivers and use the iMac as a server. As for the Denon you can get a less expesive receiver if you were looking at getting it for the extra zones and use the zone 2 preout into the C4 amp so all of the AV sources on the receiver available to your multizone system. This way the music in you itunes can be independantly chosen and playedin different rooms (this assumes that your itunes library is in a Control4 supported format M4A or MP3 are the most common.)

The drawback of doing this rather than with the Extra Vegetables driver is that your playlists from itunes won't show up so you will have to manage it using Control4. Not a big deal in my opinion.

[C4Newbie]

your better off using the denon for surround sound only, and using a C4 amp for multi zone audio

Can you elaborate please? Why is that?

[nikon]

your better off using the denon for surround sound only' date=' and using a C4 amp for multi zone audio[/quote']

Can you elaborate please? Why is that?

In most cases you are giving up rear/surround channels to handle the extra zones, not sure about the 4811 but the 4310 you had to give up the rears and then split the left and the right channels to handle each zone giving you oh so glorious mono (zone 2 - rear left, zone 3 - rear right). It is not the best solution that is for sure. Plus your theater would not sound as good as it could missing channels.

[ichbinbose]

your better off using the denon for surround sound only' date=' and using a C4 amp for multi zone audio[/quote']

Can you elaborate please? Why is that?

stable and reliable functionality is the first thing that comes to mind.

I agree that an additional HC300 for additional audio streams could be a good idea.

Also I would add a NAS and move your iTunes music to that to aid in the seemless integration.

As for the receiver that should be based on several criteria. One how large is the room? 1000 cubic square feet, 2000, 3000 more? Next what are the demands of the speakers? For example the demands of Bose or Klipsch are minimal compared to say Martin Logan' s. What are YOUR musical demands and desires? Lastly how many inputs do you need today? always have extras for future expansion.

[wingzz]

your better off using the denon for surround sound only' date=' and using a C4 amp for multi zone audio[/quote']

Can you elaborate please? Why is that?

In most cases you are giving up rear/surround channels to handle the extra zones, not sure about the 4811 but the 4310 you had to give up the rears and then split the left and the right channels to handle each zone giving you oh so glorious mono (zone 2 - rear left, zone 3 - rear right). It is not the best solution that is for sure. Plus your theater would not sound as good as it could missing channels.

Thats not right at least on a 4306 I have preouts for zone 2 and 3 I dont have to assign an amp to use it I in the past have ran other zones with an outboard amp but it was flaky as far as reliable control, I dont think the driver was written with using the zones in mind but again this was a 4306

[nikon]

Can you elaborate please? Why is that?

In most cases you are giving up rear/surround channels to handle the extra zones' date=' not sure about the 4811 but the 4310 you had to give up the rears and then split the left and the right channels to handle each zone giving you oh so glorious mono (zone 2 - rear left, zone 3 - rear right). It is not the best solution that is for sure. Plus your theater would not sound as good as it could missing channels.[/quote']

Thats not right at least on a 4306 I have preouts for zone 2 and 3 I dont have to assign an amp to use it I in the past have ran other zones with an outboard amp but it was flaky as far as reliable control, I dont think the driver was written with using the zones in mind but again this was a 4306

The answer was addressing using the AV receiver to drive the extra zones not using the preouts into another amp (that is connecting the zone 2/3 speakers directly to the AV receiver). Pre-outs are fine as I had suggested using them as a source into the C4 amp in a previous post. I am certain that a 4306 would not have connections for zone 2/3 "speakers" and still drive a 7.1 theatre. Usually it takes the rear surrounds for Zone 2 (creating a 5.1 theatre) and for zone 3 you would require a seperate amp. The 4310 that I had to setup would take the rear surrounds from the theatre and then split the left and right channels for zone 2(left channel speaker output)/ zone 3 (right channel speaker output) to be driven solely off the AV receiver outputing mono to each zone.

[ichbinbose]

Can you elaborate please? Why is that?

In most cases you are giving up rear/surround channels to handle the extra zones' date=' not sure about the 4811 but the 4310 you had to give up the rears and then split the left and the right channels to handle each zone giving you oh so glorious mono (zone 2 - rear left, zone 3 - rear right). It is not the best solution that is for sure. Plus your theater would not sound as good as it could missing channels.[/quote']

Thats not right at least on a 4306 I have preouts for zone 2 and 3 I dont have to assign an amp to use it I in the past have ran other zones with an outboard amp but it was flaky as far as reliable control, I dont think the driver was written with using the zones in mind but again this was a 4306

the zone 2/3 etc on any receiver can work, however the quality of control, ease of use/integration and on screen control is nowhere as good as actually having a C4 amp controlling the additional zones of audio.

[matt4gps]

I copied my itunes library to a external hard drive and plugged it into the back of my HC-300. I then scanned the drive using ComposerHE. I can select any song in any of my four zones through my C4-4 zone amp. On the four zone amp I have an ipod in input 1, zone 2 and zone 3 of my Denon 3310ci are in 2 and 3 inputs respectively and Digital Cable is in input 4. So, I can choose Pandora from my Sony internet tv, or AppleTV, or HD radio, or Internet Radio or a physical ipod or music from my cable box or streaming music via C4 media of the hard drive. Also, I control my apple tv with the remote app of my iphone. I don't have or need the C4 iphone app.

Also, those prices you listed are way above retail. Have your dealer give you a copy of the retail price list (2 pages).

[crazybuppie]

Those prices are not above retail at all...

[matt4gps]

Those prices are not above retail at all...

Ok. I re-read it. By bad.

[michaelschmier]

Thanks for the great discussion. I went back and confirmed the following for those that are interested.

I will be using my Denon 3311 to power my home theater and then the HC 300c and 8-zone, 16-channel amp to power 6 zones and be able to expand to two later. My dealer clearly didn't understand the switch was built into the amp.

Now in terms of playing a least two different iTunes sources simultaneously into any of my six zones . . . . the Denon should provide me multiple options. First, I will access one of my iTunes libraries streaming to the Denon. I will be able to access another iTunes library simutaneously by running a mini to RCA from an Airport Express directly to either the Denon or the Amp directly. I can also attach an iPod to the Denon as third "iTunes sources". Denon has confirmed that iTunes stream, Internet Radio, Pandor, etc. should be able to go out through Zone 2, Zone 3 on the Denon which will run to the Control 4 amp and be piped to other rooms. The Denon is installed and all speakers and wiring is done. Control 4 installation and programming is Tuesday. I wish Control 4 has a few direct option but no such luck. Their dock doesn't even support an iPhone . . . . Pray for me.

MS.

[michaelschmier]

Oh yes, and I know the Control 4 won't be able to see or control the playlist from its remotes . . . but I'll live with that for a while. I can easily control what playing in iTunes through my Apple Remotes.

[Letran]

My dealer clearly didn't understand the switch was built into the amp. . . . . Pray for me.

Really????????? I'll pray for you

Their dock doesn't even support an iPhone . . . . Pray for me.

I have the C4 iPod dock I've seen it support an iPhone, It supports an iTouch for sure but that should be similar?

First, I will access one of my iTunes libraries streaming to the Denon.

Via a USB harddrive?

I will be able to access another iTunes library simutaneously by running a mini to RCA from an Airport Express directly to either the Denon or the Amp directly.

Itunes library from a PC? with a mini RCA? to RCA from an Air Express then to C4 Amp. I have an Air Extreme does not have rca's I guess Air Express does. Please clarify I'm trying understand why not directly to the C4 amp

I can also attach an iPod to the Denon as third "iTunes sources".

If you are going to that I do not know how much the Denon iPod dock but why not just get a C4 iPod dock?

And maybe what I'm not understanding is why is it desirable to access Itunes sources as oppose to Digital audio via NAS or USB drive from HC300? This way C4 can see and control the playlist? Just curious trying to understand.

Sorry if these does not make sense I might have missed something

[thecodeman]

I wish Control 4 has a few direct option but no such luck. Their dock doesn't even support an iPhone . . . . Pray for me.

MS.

It does. When I had an iPhone, I used it in a couple different docks for testing. Jwhitaker@revit was with me one of those times.