Not much going on around here these days...

[emillika]

You would think with the arrival of 1.3 people would be chatting up a storm trying to figure it all out. Guess not.

[panamagixxer]

Does not help non dealers out much?

[alinford]

Non dealers do not have composer, so there is not much to discuss

[panamagixxer]

I hear you, but it would be nice to know the inside info. when I am trying to decide on a $45,000 investment.

[ATOH]

1.3 makes HUGE improvements including speed, organization of things, programming capabilities, and much much more. Pretty much ALL the dealers are impressed by the new 1.3 release.

How's that? Or are you looking for more information? If so, ask whatever you want to know. We'll gladly help.

[R_Willis]

I hear you, but it would be nice to know the inside info. when I am trying to decide on a $45,000 investment.

Agreed. I wish they'd open up the forums so we could at LEAST read them.

Limit us from posting, that's fine.

If they want a section or two on that FORUM kept private for certain restricted info, fine.

It's a shame!

A DIY guy is going to be a DIY guy no matter what. They'll find a way. CQC is looking more and more pleasing by the day! http://www.charmedquark.com/

I'm still on the bubble about diving into a full-blown C4 system, and this doesn't help.

Maybe C4 wants to be more like Crestron then everyone knows...

PS: I still think we should at least merge the two "public" forums to help keep it easier and keep it more active. Just my .02 cents....

[panamagixxer]

Crap, I would like to see the user software (not the installer) - just to get an idea on what I can modify/change. Also, not enough screen shots on Control4's site. I don't get a great feel on how to find stuff, etc. I know I keep reading the software is user friendly, but I can't find any manuals on the equipment or anything? I am used to finding a manual on-line and reading about the piece of electronics before I buy it?

[danlevine]

Hey emillika it is a bummer that this forum did slow down. Eventually we feel the End users will get it rolling. Right now the dealers are sticking to the control4 official forums which have been revamped tremendously from their original configuration.

This site is focused on helping end users now. We would love for more dealer & advanced user conversation here and are always available to answer any questions.

Dan

[waynechi]

I can't believe this "you don't need to know" attitude from both the dealers and to an extent Control4. Composer is not just a tool that dealers use -- the users see the effects of the functionality every time they use the system. Just read the quotes from the dealer release and you'll see that they describe overall system performance and functionality - not an installation tool. (e.g. - "When upgrading (a pre-1.3 system) to 1.3 you will pretty much freak out the first few minutes after its up and running...It will be MUCH more responsive. You will see lots of new little tricks with the remotes such as time and what the current device is, menus load super fast, music loads fast...").

Most companies when they make new product announcements or upgrades make the announcements to entice and educate the end user - even if the products are sold through a dealer channel instead of directly to the public. Its as if auto companies didnt communicate to the public when they add a more powerful engine to a car, because they think that non-mechanics shouldnt care about what's under the hood and its the dealer's job to educate them.

One of the reasons people use this forum is because dealers don't communicate all the facts to their installed base. This isnt a "good dealer/bad dealer" issue -- its impossible to do given the inherent complexity of these products and the speed with which updates come. A lot of the functionality of C4 systems is undocumented in the sparse manuals and comes via word of mouth.

I bought my C4 system this spring not because I went to a trusted dealer who showed me how great C4 was. The first dealer I went to tried to sell me one of the mainstream systems, and I did my own research to figure out that the Control4 concept and architecture was superior (but nascent). I had to track down my own dealer and do my own research. Being able to get on the forums helped me understand what was possible and what was not. Now when I see that the amount of "real" information is slowing to a trickle I get concerned.

Dealers, Control4: Read this the thread again and listen to what your customers are saying. They are asking for more information and all they are getting are these smug "you don't need to know" responses. Wake up guys.

[rso2006]

I can't believe this "you don't need to know" attitude from both the dealers and to an extent Control4.

Wayne, i don't care what these other people say, you are dead on. C4 has just released what they themselves and the dealers have termed a MAJOR release of the software, one that will increase speed, responsiveness and flexibility, and there is virtually NO direct information to the end user about it. That's intentional, of course.

One of them above even told someone "if you have a specific question about it, just ask." What the hell does that mean? If I had a specific question about nuclear fission I should just go ask a nuclear engineer? Without any information how am I supposed to develop a question? That's retarded.

Clearly C4 has chosen a closed society approach to their marketing and implementation. C4 is also obviously pursuing the older age group as their market, people that unlike myself and the people on these boards, are older, less technically savvy and honestly less interested in the nuts and bolts of the technology, more interested in the end result. They have money, want it installed and maintained by someone else. As a result, C4 has no interest in feeding the end user any information. I sincerely believe this. I am guessing I'm a bit a little younger than many of the customers C4 has so I'm astounded that an automation system built on technology and networks is so poorly communicated to end users.

I mean look at this site for crikey's sake! This is a board devoted to C4 just after a major software release that will eliminate what i thought was C4's major weakness (beside no xm!), it sluggishness and there are virtually NO posts on it or any give and take. In fact, this site and the other site have been dead for weeks. It's not their fault, just a result of the arrangement C4 has created. It's like if you had an interest in fixing, modifying or simply operating Ford cars and were looking for a site to discuss all this with others, it would be tough to support something like that if Ford only let the mechanics behind the curtain and provided nothing to the drivers.

[panamagixxer]

rso - I agree with you. I still like C4 and plan on having a system installed in my house, but I am concerned with the support (from an end user stance). I have heard about the software that a user can have to tweak his/her system, but don't have any idea what that means? I am younger (37) with a pretty good tech. background. I am used to being able to investigate my major purchases (always finding more detail than I can on this line of products). Like you said, I honestly don't have enough information to ask questions.

I guess my best bet is to get some quotes from the competition and find out what their systems can do - then ask this board to see if C4 can match it? Seems a little backwards, but it will work? Unless I find a better solution?

Anyway, surprised like a lot of people on the lack of PR on the new software?

[rsmout]

I read that Control4 is expanding their relationship with Tweeter as a retailer.

How will this factor in with the Dealer/End User scenario? Anyone know? Will Tweeter become the "dealer" in that situation?

[lippavisual]

I'm sorry that all of you feel this way towards C4. I don't think it was ever intentional by them. 1.3 is still very new. I, as a dealer, have just now begun updating my showroom system. I haven't even played with the new features myself, which I could probably say for other dealers. Everyone is busy and in order for us to let the end users know what is so great about this release, we will need a little time to play.

As for other information, like products and such, you should be able to request info from any dealer. The Composer ME software is a media edition that lets you, the end user, play around with your music, DVD's, cover-art, etc, etc.

I will be back here ASAP to answer any questions about 1.3, once I've learned about it myself.

[waynechi]

pana... dont get me wrong. My dealer support is actually quite good and I absolutely love my installation - it actually works quite nicely! I found a dealer who has done 30-40 major installations in my area and really knows what works and what does not (through trial and error, as they will tell you). This ranges from knowing that the wireless mini-touch screens and speaker points dont work to knowing to install the director on the HTC instead of the Media Controller because it in fact has a faster processor (even though its less expensive). Dealers have to deal with the same issues we do - none of this is written down so it all comes from experience and/or word of mouth.

Part of the issue is that Control4 is bending over backwards to appease the dealer channel (from C4's perspective at least if not the dealers), because the C4 founders alienated them about 5-7 years ago with their previous company. If you look at some of the other home automation forums out there, you'll see non-C4 dealers bashing the company every chance they get. This has a little to do with this alienation and past sins and more to do with the fact that C4's technology/architecture is seen as threatening to the high end installer base. It is exactly the fear that the same functionality could be obtained by a Tweeter or even Best Buy (as some of the board rumors will assert) that makes these dealers hostile and/or defensive at times. My take is that the product is too complex to be picked up by a regular Best Buy (though you'll see some Best Buys are getting into the higher end semi-custom markets), but there is no reason why Tweeter couldnt carry it. So C4 probably doesnt want to appear to be to going over the heads of smaller dealers by working too directly with consumers.

The fault with that approach is what's emerging in this discussion. Potential C4 customers are probably younger, more technologically savvy, and more willing to take risks on superior yet still emerging technologies. My dad bought a small Crestron system for his vacation home recently. He called a dealer that looked good to him, the dealer recommended a basic Crestron installation, and he bought it (for this project, C4 could have satisfied his needs). Now that its installed, he'll probably never upgrade it and if there's ever a problem he'll just call the dealer and nag him to death. I, on the other hand, intend to build out my system more in the coming years. I am going to put more dimmers in, hook up more TVs, and add some extra rooms using my home ethernet network. I also like the fact that there's the potential to use my PC to manage music via Composer Home Edition and eventually manage/tweak lighting scenes on my own. The rub is that the customers and early adopters who are likely to move to C4 systems right now, stealing market share away from the Elans, Russounds, Sonances, and Niles of the world are the least likely to be enticed by this old-world dealer channel that C4 is trying to appease. Its amazing for me to see how many people on these boards are ready to drop $15K-$40K on a system, are trying to do the basic research that gets beyond the vaporware/hype on the C4 website, but can't find what they need to make a purchase. So in a way the company is acting as if its trying to reach the wrong type of consumer - not the younger early adopters but instead the older risk averse crowd that puts all its trust in dealers (who curiously always happen the recommend the exact products they are licensed to sell).

Case-in-point. Up until very recently, you could go on http://www.control4.com/documents/iug/ and find all of the user guides and installation guides in pdf form. When the company made new releases, updates or annoucements, you could usually find the new guides posted there. They are more detailed than the glossy 1-pagers on the website and give you a better sense of how the system really works. I got on, downloaded all of them, and used them to better understand what I would be getting before I bought a system. (I'd be glad to share all of them if the company agrees). Now if you try to get on, you'll see that the index is blocked. Today, I would bet that there is a new user guide for Composer 1.3 posted there that describes the functionality, but access has been restricted to dealers. So its not like the company is trying its best but can't keep up -- its actions suggest that it is actively restricting knowledge with its end customers. You can't even download an end user manual from the website, even though they exist.

So what's my point? The technology is great yet emerging, there are plenty of good dealers who play a value-added role out there, but if I were in charge of marketing at Control 4 I would be looking for a new job.

[C4 4 Me]

Right now, C4 is setup to be purchased and installed through a dealer network. It is not setup for the DIY market. C4's customer is the dealer, not the end user. Companies choose what market they go after, and C4 is not currently marketing to the DIY crowd.

If you are not getting enough info about the latest software update, how things work, new software, and what hardware is available, contact your dealer. If your dealer is not getting enough info from C4, they will contact C4 and let them know that they are not able to service their customers due to a lack of communication.

[R_Willis]

Wow, very well stated "waynechi"!

I agree with what your saying. I'm young (almost 30) and consider myself somewhat tech-savy. I like to tinker around. I love the idea that Control4 has come up with and the fact that they cater to the lower-to-mid market more then the upscale market (Crestron, AMX). Could I afford a Crestron/AMX system if I really wanted it, maybe. However, for what it costs and what is appears to do, Control4 is the Corvette Z06 of sportscars (cost $70k, but runs with the big dogs like Ferrari that cost $200k and still does 95% of what the Ferrari can do).

My take is that the product is too complex to be picked up by a regular Best Buy (though you'll see some Best Buys are getting into the higher end semi-custom markets), but there is no reason why Tweeter couldnt carry it. So C4 probably doesnt want to appear to be to going over the heads of smaller dealers by working too directly with consumers.

Agreed. The product is complex. However, what if I want to try and learn it and tinker with it? The reason many are turning to more affordable and easier to use solutions (then Crestron/AMX) is the cost factor and the ease of use. Many people who can't afford Crestron (and the likes...) or don't want to mess with it cause you have to pay a dealer to come out and do programming everytime you want something are going to be turned off when they find out C4 is starting to look the same! If I couldn't figure out C4 programming, by all means I would suck it up and call and dealer and pay for their help admitting it is too much for me. However, I definately don't need a dealer to install light switches, run ethernet cables for MTSs, and so on. That is a cake walk for myself and many others...

My dad bought a small Crestron system for his vacation home recently. He called a dealer that looked good to him, the dealer recommended a basic Crestron installation, and he bought it (for this project, C4 could have satisfied his needs). Now that its installed, he'll probably never upgrade it and if there's ever a problem he'll just call the dealer and nag him to death. I, on the other hand, intend to build out my system more in the coming years. I am going to put more dimmers in, hook up more TVs, and add some extra rooms using my home ethernet network.

Yeah, but you'll be stuck with your dad. Everytime you want to add/build your system in the coming years adding more dimmers, doing a/v connections that need bindings, etc you'll have to call out a dealer to come tweak Composer. It's not like Composer/Navigator is some holy grail CIA/FBI type software. Just don't understand why all these companies are so protective of the software. Heck, the people buy the product (that requires Composer to run), they should be entitled to the license of the software. It's like selling computers with Windows, but ALL but the basic components are blocked out telling you to call a computer tech when you need something changed? What good is it to the end user if they can't figure it out anyway? ZERO. So why limit it to just the dealers? Some say they are worried about tech support. Well, make it perfectly clear that Composer is complex and involved. Use dedicated tech lines for dealers (free) and other lines for end users (cost per minute). Or charge a yearly tech support cost (maybe a forum on the site or email) of $100 or $200 or whatever everyone feels is fair.

The rub is that the customers and early adopters who are likely to move to C4 systems right now, stealing market share away from the Elans, Russounds, Sonances, and Niles of the world are the least likely to be enticed by this old-world dealer channel that C4 is trying to appease. Its amazing for me to see how many people on these boards are ready to drop $15K-$40K on a system, are trying to do the basic research that gets beyond the vaporware/hype on the C4 website, but can't find what they need to make a purchase. So in a way the company is acting as if its trying to reach the wrong type of consumer - not the younger early adopters but instead the older risk averse crowd that puts all its trust in dealers (who curiously always happen the recommend the exact products they are licensed to sell).

Hit the nail on the head. Everyday I consider myself looking to other options including Charmed Quark (CQC). Control4 might be losing more sales/consumers then they think.

Case-in-point. Up until very recently, you could go on http://www.control4.com/documents/iug/ and find all of the user guides and installation guides in pdf form. When the company made new releases, updates or annoucements, you could usually find the new guides posted there. They are more detailed than the glossy 1-pagers on the website and give you a better sense of how the system really works. I got on, downloaded all of them, and used them to better understand what I would be getting before I bought a system. (I'd be glad to share all of them if the company agrees). Now if you try to get on, you'll see that the index is blocked. Today, I would bet that there is a new user guide for Composer 1.3 posted there that describes the functionality, but access has been restricted to dealers. So its not like the company is trying its best but can't keep up -- its actions suggest that it is actively restricting knowledge with its end customers. You can't even download an end user manual from the website, even though they exist.

Totally agree with this. I enjoyed being able to look at the manuals, tech notes, updates, and what not. What was it hurting by letting us see it? It's the tech-savy, DIYer, and highly resourceful people that checked this out anyway. Helps you decide if the system is right for you. How many of their potential customers/base even knew about this section on their site (5-10%)? How many cared (5-10%)? Not sure why they blocked it, but they probably have some shoebox reason.

Just my .02 cents, which are actually worth more like .01 cent.

***still on the fence about my Control4 purchase decision***

[panamagixxer]

Right now, C4 is setup to be purchased and installed through a dealer network. It is not setup for the DIY market. C4's customer is the dealer, not the end user. Companies choose what market they go after, and C4 is not currently marketing to the DIY crowd.

If you are not getting enough info about the latest software update, how things work, new software, and what hardware is available, contact your dealer. If your dealer is not getting enough info from C4, they will contact C4 and let them know that they are not able to service their customers due to a lack of communication.

I get it, but, I am not used to or don't like the fact that I need to run to my dealer to ask small questions. Again, having access to the user manuals on-line would be a big help. I guess, I don't like a babysitter - I tend to learn on my own about products.

[C4 4 Me]

Right now' date=' C4 is setup to be purchased and installed through a dealer network. It is not setup for the DIY market. C4's customer is the dealer, not the end user. Companies choose what market they go after, and C4 is not currently marketing to the DIY crowd.

If you are not getting enough info about the latest software update, how things work, new software, and what hardware is available, contact your dealer. If your dealer is not getting enough info from C4, they will contact C4 and let them know that they are not able to service their customers due to a lack of communication.[/quote']

I get it, but, I am not used to or don't like the fact that I need to run to my dealer to ask small questions. Again, having access to the user manuals on-line would be a big help. I guess, I don't like a babysitter - I tend to learn on my own about products.

You could probably ask your dealer for user manuals. I would like C4 to have a DIY option as well, but for now it does not exist.

[read99]

For a something of this complexity, a closed dealer based system is typically best. Without the hierarchy you get disorganized and low growth.

Just look at Wikipedia - oh I am sorry that is a bad example since Wikipedia is open source and collaborative and is now bigger, more up to date and more used than any closed sytem encyclopedia. It was also inexpensive to expand. Well wikipedia must just be a fluke so don't look at it.

Well closer to home, look at the underlying operating system for C4: linux. Compare linux to windows. Linux has grown, is less expensive, used by many including C4, based on a mix of profesionals and amateurs working together to improve while windows is a closed system product which relies on on the original DOS monopoply to sell at a premium even with fat and bug ridden code. Sorry another bad example.

Look at Second Life. A sorry that is even a worse example

I don't actually care what logic C4 is using but it would be great if they opened up a public forum for dealers, owners and others on their site. They could, if absolutely needed, create a small section for dealers only but in truth I don't think that it is actually needed. They should harnass the expertise and marketing of all of us.

First, I have a very large C4 system installed and I like it a lot. I like it as is and think that it has a lot of further potential. I just want it to optimize that potential and be successful.

[C4 4 Me]

Below is the FAQ that C4 has given to the people manning their booth at CEDIA.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Control4 – CEDIA Product Announcements FAQ

September 6, 2006

General CEDIA Announcements & Info

Q. What new products are we announcing/showing at CEDIA?

A. We are announcing the immediate availability of

• Software Release 1.3

• 4Sight remote access solution

• Multi Room Music Bundles

We are also announcing for release in 4Q06

• 10.5” In-Wall Touch Panel

• Low-voltage Keypad power supply for use with our 2, 3, 6, and 10-button keypads in low-voltage installations.

The 10.5” Touch Panel and the Low-voltage Power Supply will both ship in the 4th quarter.

Software Release 1.3

Availability, General Info

Q. When will 1.3 be released?

A. The Control4 Software Release 1.3 is shipping today and available for download from the Control4 dealer website.

Q. Is there a charge to upgrade to 1.3?

A. The Control4 Software Release 1.3 is a free update to all Control4 customers.

Q. Do I need additional training to install 1.3?

A. Control4 is offering several Raindance Training sessions to our dealers free of charge. These training sessions will cover all aspects of upgrading and installing a 1.3 system. Check the Control4 Dealer Website for times.

Q. Is 4Sight part of the 1.3 Release?

A. 4Sight subscriptions are sold separately. 4Sight enhances the capabilities of the 1.3 system by providing remote access and email notification.

New Features in 1.3

Q. What’s new with 1.3?

A. The Control4 Software Release 1.3 combines a number of new enhancements to streamline installation and setup, improve the end user experience, and provide dramatic improvements in performance and responsiveness.

Q. What are the new features?

A. The list of features falls into 2 categories.

Setup & configuration:

• Update Manager – One-click updates and entire system. With or without an internet connection. Remotely or on-site.

• System Diagnostics – Troubleshoot and performance tune your system with advanced diagnostic information.

• Configuration & Programming

o Enhanced Audio Control with media scenes and full programming control of all audio functions.

o Customize which devices display on the Navigator UI, and it what order.

o Cut & Paste, Find & Replace for programming

o New Variable types – String & Device

o Room-based programming.

• IR-Input support – Allows the use of 3rd party remotes with the Control4 System. You can now use that Pronto or MX3000 to control the Control4 System.

End-User Experience:

• Enhanced Audio Control –

o Repeat and shuffle settings do not need to be reset each time you start an audio session. Your playlists will now start in random mode.

o Media Scenes provides flexibility for joining and separating audio zones – with minimal or total unified control.

• Navigator Improvements

o Alphabetical quick jump searching on lists. Jump right to that ZZ-Top album and queue it up – no more scrolling through the entire library!

o The Remote Control displays the room and device that it is controlling. Am I controlling the TV or VCR? Now you know!

o We’ve added lots of status & feedback on Remote Control and LCD Keypad (contacts, HVAC, lights, etc.). For example, the remote indicates the song that is currently playing in the music queue.

• Performance and Responsiveness:

o Overall, you and your customers will notice the system performs much faster and is more responsive. Many functions are 3-5 times faster.

4Sight Remote Access

4Sight Overview

Q. What is 4Sight?

A. 4Sight is a Control4 product. It is an annual subscription that allows the Control4 system to communicate over the internet, providing increased convenience, security, and peace of mind through anytime, anywhere access to your home. Specific benefits are

• End Users have remote access to their home through any web browser, from any location.

• Email notifications can be sent to any email address for any event occurring in the home.

• Dealers have remote access to the customer’s home from Composer, allowing support, updates & programming without a truck role.

Q. What components of their Control4 system can a customer control using 4Sight?

A. Lighting, Security Systems, HVAC, and Sensors & Motorization are available today through 4Sight.

Q. When is 4Sight available?

A. 4Sight is available today in final beta for all Control4 systems running version 1.3 of the Control4 system software, and will ship for general availability by the end of September. 90-day subscription codes are available to activate 1.3 systems today.

Q. What does 4Sight cost?

A. The MSRP for 4Sight is $149 for an annual subscription. This subscription must be renewed annually.

The introductory price (MSRP) for 4Sight is $99 for an annual subscription. The introductory pricing is available through the end of 2006.

Q. How is 4Sight ordered & sold?

A. 4Sight is on the Control4 price list and is ordered and sold the same as any other Control4 product (part number - C4-4SIGHT). It is an add-on product that can be sold with every Control4 system. The product consists of subscription card containing an activation code, which is shipped to the dealer.

Q. How is a 4Sight subscription renewed each year?

A. The customer must purchase another annual subscription card with a new activation code. The new activation code is entered at my.control4.com. This code will extend the customers subscription for 12 months. Control4 will send reminders to both the customer and the Dealer when the current subscription is due for renewal.

Q. What is the 4Sight 90-day trial?

A. The 4Sight 90-day trial is a free 90-day subscription card available to all new and existing customers that want to try out 4Sight.

Q. How do dealers obtain the 4Sight 90-day trial?

A. The 4Sight 90-day subscription card will be included in the box of every HTC and MC by the end of 4Q06. Prior to that time, Dealers can order the 90-day trail subscriptions for a nominal cost. (part number C4-4SIGHTTRIAL). Beta subscription codes are available from Tech Support through the end of September.

Q. How does a customer convert a 90-day trial to a 1-year subscription?

A. The procedure is the same as renewing a 1-year subscription.

Q. Are renewal reminders sent at the end of the 90-day trial?

A. Yes. Control4 will send reminders out to the Dealer and the customer whenever a 4Sight subscription is due for renewal.

Q. Can the dealer extend a customer’s 90-day trial by renewing with another 90-day trial subscription?

A. No. An existing subscription (90-day or annual) cannot be renewed with a 90-day trial subscription.

Q. Where can I learn more about 4Sight?

A. Control4 is offering 4Sight training as part of the 1.3 Raindance Training sessions. Training times are posted on the Control4 Dealer web site as well as announced through email notifications.

Setting up 4Sight

Q. Is 1.3 required to use 4Sight?

A. Yes. 4Sight subscriptions are only available on 1.3 systems.

Q. What is required to set up a Control4 System for 4Sight?

A. 4Sight remote access can be set up in 3 simple steps

• The customer purchases a 4Sight Subscription card with the activation code.

• The customer creates a myControl4 account on my.control4.com and enters the subscription activation code to activate their account

• The customer enters their Account Name, email address, and password in Navigator, and checks “enable” remote access.

Q. Can the Dealer set up a customer’s system using his own dealer account?

A. No. Although this was allowed during the dealer beta period of 4Sight, this is no longer allowed. The customer must have their own myControl4 account.

Q. Can the Dealer set up a customer’s system using Composer?

A. It is recommended that the customer set up 4Sight through Navigator so they can keep their account ID (email) and password confidential. However, it is still possible for the dealer to enter the customer’s account name, email, and password and enable remote access through Composer. In this case, it is recommended that the end-user change their password as soon as possible.

Q. Can the customer change their myControl account password?

A. Yes. Customers can log into my.control4.com and change their password.

Q. How does the dealer obtain access to the customer’s system?

A. The customer must log into their myControl4 account and click the button to “turn ON” the remote access for their dealer of record, and provide their Account Name to the dealer. (note, the account name is separate from the email address (user ID) and password they use to log on to my.control4.com.

Q. Does the customer need to provide the dealer with his username and password for the dealer to access the customer’s system?

A. No. Control4 does not encourage or recommend the customer to provide the dealer with their myControl4 password or account ID (email address). The dealer users his own email and password to access the customer’s Control4 system. The customer does need to provide their dealer with their Account Name.

Q. Can the customer provide access to friends and family members without giving them their email and password?

A. Yes. The customer can log into my.control4.com and add additional email addresses to their account. Each email address is assigned its own password. The customer can enable/disable or delete these additional email addresses at any time.

Q. How many controllers can be accessed from any single myControl4 account?

A. Each myControl4 account can have access to a single Control4 controller.

Q. How does the dealer access multiple customer homes if a myControl4 account can only access one controller?

A. Dealer accounts behave differently than end-user accounts. The dealer account can access the single controller associated with their own account. In addition, Dealers can access their customer’s accounts using composer and entering the end user Account Name and the dealer’s email address and password. The dealer must be listed as the dealer of record, and the customer must have turned on dealer access to their account.

Q. What if the customer does not want the dealer to have access to their home?

A. The default is for dealer access to be OFF. If the customer has turned on dealer access, he can log into my.control4.com at any time and turn it off.

Q. What does the customer do if they change dealers, or do not have a dealer of record?

A. The customer must select a dealer of record when creating their myControl4 account. The customer can log into my.control4.com and change his dealer of record any time by selecting a new dealer from the dealer list.

Using 4Sight

Q. How does a customer access their system remotely?

A. The customer logs into my.control4.com using the email address and password they provided when setting up their account. The system automatically connects them to their home using the WebNavigator web application.

Q. What is WebNavigator?

A. WebNavigator is a set of web pages on my.control4.com that allow a customer to view status and control their home from the web.

Q. How does a dealer access a customer’s system remotely?

A. The dealer uses the remote access feature of Composer Pro. The dealer uses the customer’s Account Name and his own email, and password to access the customer’s home.

Q. How does the customer receive email alerts?

A. The dealer must set up email alerting using Composer.

Migrating from the 4Sight Dealer Beta on 1.2 systems

Q. Will Dealers continue to have access to 1.2 systems set up during the 4Sight Dealer Beta?

A. Dealers will have access to 1.2 systems set up on the 4Sight Dealer beta through the end of 2006.

Q. How will Dealers access these 1.2 systems?

A. Dealers will need to use the 1.2.x version of composer to access these systems.

Q. Will customers with 1.2 systems set up on the 4Sight beta have remote access to their system?

A. No. Customers on 1.2 systems have never had access to their systems. The only remote access to 1.2 systems was through ComposerPro, which is only available to dealers.

Q. Will customers with 1.2 systems set up on the 4Sight beta continue to receive email alerts?

A. Customers set up on the 4Sight beta with 1.2 systems will receive email alerts through the end of 2006. At that point, they need to update to 1.3 and purchase a 4Sight subscription to continue using this feature.

Q. If a customer with a 1.2 system that was set up on the 4Sight Dealer Beta is upgraded to 1.3 will the remote access continue to work?

A. During an update to 1.3, all remote access settings are erased. A customer will need to purchase a subscription and set up 4sight on their 1.3 system.

Q. Will the old www.mycontrol4.com URL still be active?

A. The new URL is my.control4.com. The old URL, www.mycontrol4.com, will now redirect to the new URL.

Q. Will my customer’s mycontrol4 Account, User ID, and password still work?

A. No. All end user accounts will need to be recreated at my.control4.com.

Q. Do I need to create new dealer accounts or myControl4 accounts to use 4Sight on 1.3?

A. Dealer myControl4 accounts have been migrated and do not need to be recreated. End user accounts must be recreated at my.control4.com.

Multi-Room Music Bundles

MRM Bundles Overview

Q. What is the Multi-Room Music Bundle?

A. The Multi-Room Music Bundle is a complete solution for a distributed audio installation. The bundles are available for 2, 4, 6, 8, and 16 zone installations.

Q. Why is Control4 offering the Multi-Room Music bundles ?

A. The Control4 Multi-Room Audio Bundles provide convenience and quicker setup. These bundles simplify the ordering process because everything you need for a complete multi-room audio solution is included under a single part number. Less time is spent on installation and setup because the projects are pre-build and preconfigured.

Q. What is included in the bundle?

A. Each bundle consists of a Media Controller, networking gear, a Mini Touch for each room, and amplification and switching. For 2 zone systems, speaker points are included. For 4-8 zone systems, a 16 channel amp is included. The 16 zone solution adds a second amp and an audio matrix switch. In addition, each bundle is available in both WiFi and Ethernet versions for the Mini Touch screens and includes a POE switch for the Ethernet version and an Access Point for the WiFi version. Finally, the bundles each come packaged with a CD with pre-programmed projects, simple set-up instructions, and a product brochure to leave behind with the customer

Q. Will I save money by purchasing the Music Bundles vs. purchasing the components separately?

A. The standard pricing of the Multi-Room Music Bundles offers a savings of approximately 5% vs. purchasing the components separately.

Q. What is the CEDIA promotion for the Multi-Room music bundles?

A. Multi-Room Music Bundles ordered during the month of September will receive 5% off the regular pricing on the bundle SKUs. This equates to approximately 10% savings vs. purchasing the components separately.

Q. Can I “customize” the bundle when ordered?

A. There are no substitutions in the bundles, but you can add any additional equipment to the base bundle to create the right solution for your customer

Q. Why do I need a new access point?

A. While it is possible to use the customer’s existing wireless network, it is preferable to set up a separate network for the Control4 Audio System for several reasons. A separate network prevents possible competition with home PCs and other devices for WiFi bandwidth, and prevents the customer’s home networking problems from becoming a Control4 Audio system support issue. The location of the current Access Point in the customer’s home may not be ideal for use with the Control4 Wireless devices. Installing a separate Access Point allows placement in the ideal location.

Q. What if the customer wants more than just distributed audio?

A. While these bundles are for distributed audio, each bundle includes our Media Controller which is capable of automating and controlling an entire home. Simply add any other Control4 or 3rd party equipment to the bundle to expand your installation.

Q. My customer wants 7 zones, and the bundles are only available in even number quantities, what do I do?

A. You can easily add a zone to any bundle by purchasing additional mini-touch screens, and where appropriate additional speaker points. For example, if a 3-zone system is desired, a mini-touch and speaker point would be added to a 2-zone bundle; if a 7-zone system is desired, just add a mini-touch to a 6-zone bundle (the amp has capacity for up to 8 zones)

Q. Is there any difference between the hardware in these bundles and the hardware when ordered separately?

A. No. The Control4 hardware is the same hardware. We have simply created a compilation of Control4 products and added the required networking gear to simplify the ordering and installation process of a complete multi-room music solution.

Q. Which WiFi Access Point is included in the bundle?

A. The WiFi Access Point included in the MultiRoom Music Bundles is the Netgear WPN824. Please note – Control4 may change suppliers and/or model of the WiFi Access Point in the future.

Q. Which POE switch is included in the bundle?

A. The Power Over Ethernet switch included in the MultiRoom Music Bundles is the D-Link DES-1316. Please note – Control4 may change suppliers and/or model of the POE switch in the future.

Q4 Products

XM Tuner

Q. When is the XM Tuner going to ship?

A. The XM Tuner is targeted to ship in 4Q06.

Q. What will the XM Tuner cost?

A. The MultiTuner with XM has an MSRP of $899. The MultiTuner XM upgrade option has an MSRP of $199.

Q Are you taking orders for this product?

A. Yes, The XM Tuner is currently on the price list.

Q. Will I need to update the software to use the XM Tuner?

A. Yes. The MultiTuner with XM will require a new driver in Composer. A Maintenance Release will be available in 4Q06 that will provide the necessary software drivers.

Q. Can I upgrade my existing Control4 MultiTuner with XM?

A. Yes, We have a MultiTuner XM upgrade option that can be installed by a Dealer in the Field.

Q. Will the Control4 XM Tuner come with an antenna?

A. Yes, The MultiTuner with XM and the MultiTuner XM upgrade option both come with an XM antenna.

Q. How do my customers obtain/purchase an XM subscription?

A. The Control4 MultiTuner with XM requires an XM subscription, which is available from XM. Customers can go to www.xmradio.com to set up an XM subscription and activate their XM radio.

Q. Do you need a separate subscription for each XM device?

A. Yes. XM Radio requires a separate subscription for each XM Tuner. This is consistent with XM Radio’s policy for all XM devices.

Q Are you going to support Sirius, or other satellite radio vendors?

A. We are working on providing drivers for 3rd party satellite radio devices. Control4 does not have immediate plans to release a Control4-branded Sirius radio at this time.

Outlet Dimmer

Q. When is the Outlet Dimmer going to ship?

A. The Oultet Dimmer is targeted to ship in 4Q06.

Q What will the Outlet Dimmer cost?

A. The MSRP is $129.

Q Are you taking orders for this product?

A. Yes, the Outlet Dimmer is on the price list and available for order.

Q. Will I need to update the software to use the Outlet Dimmer?

A. Support for the Outlet Dimmer is included in the 1.3 release. The Outlet Dimmer will work with 1.3 when it ships. Although unanticipated, if there are any changes required to the driver, a Maintenance Release will be available in 4Q06 that will provide the necessary driver changes.

10.5” In-wall Touch Panel

Q. When is the 10” In-Wall Touch Panel going to ship?

A. The 10.5” In-Wall Touch Panel is targeted to ship in 4Q06.

Q. What will the 10.5” In-Wall Touch Panel cost?

A. The MSRP is $2495.

Q Are you taking orders for this product?

A. Yes. The 10.5” In-Wall Touch Panel is now on the price list and we are taking orders.

Q. Will I need to update the software to use the 10” In-Wall Touch Panel?

A. Yes. Maintenance Release will be available in 4Q06 that will provide the necessary driver for the 10.5” Touch Panel.

Q. Will the 10.5” In-wall be Ethernet or WiFi?

A. The 10.5” Touch Panel supports Ethernet. We intend to offer WiFi support at a later date.

Q. Will the 10.5” fit between standard wall stud widths and standard depth?

A. The 10.5” Touch Panel fits standard Stud widths and depts. For new construction it is recommended that the backbox be framed in.

Q. Does it have a special backbox?

A. Control4 offers a new-construction custom back box. A retrofit backbox will be available next year.

Q. Will the 10.5” support streaming video?

A. The Control4 System does not offer streaming video at this time. The 10.5” In-wall Touch Panel is capable of supporting streaming video when it becomes available.

Q. Will the 10.5” support a microphone for intercom?

A. The 10.5” In-wall Touch Panel has a microphone and speakers; however, they are not functional in the current Control4 System. The 10.5” In-Wall Touch Panel is capable of supporting intercom functionality when it becomes available.

Q. What are the main features of the 10” In-wall Touch Panel?

A. The 10.5” In-wall Touch Panel has similar capabilities to the 10.5” hand held Touch Panel.

Q. Will you be releasing Touch Panels of other sizes & formats?

A. Control4 has a policy of not preannouncing products. Control4 is investigating a number of new user-interface devices, including touch panels of different sizes and with wide-screen format. In general, Control4’s direction is to offer customers the ability to access & control their home from anywhere, providing a variety of choices for interface devices.

Low-voltage Keypad Solutions

Q. What is Control4’s low voltage Keypad offering?

A. Control4 now offers a complete line of low-voltage keypads. With the Low-voltage Keypad Power Supply, our 2-, 3-, & 6-button keypads, as well as our LCD Keypad can now be installed with low voltage wiring.

Q. Why is Control4 offering a low voltage keypad solution?

A. Providing a low voltage option allows our dealers to save installation costs by eliminating the need for a licensed electrician to install our keypads. For example, the installation of a multi-room music system using 6-button or LCD keypads for in-room audio control no longer requires an electrician to complete the job.

Q. What is the Low-voltage Keypad Power Supply?

A. The Low-voltage Keypad power supply is a 36 volt AC power supply for user with Control4’s 2-, 3-, and 6-button Keypads, as well as with the LCD Keypad.

Q. When is the Low-voltage Keypad Power Supply going to ship?

A. The Low-voltage Keypad power supply is targeted to ship in 4Q06.

Q. What will the Low-voltage Keypad power supply cost?

A. The MSRP is $39.95.

Q Are you taking orders for this product?

A. Yes. The Low-voltage Keypad power supply is now on the price list and we are taking orders.

Q. Will I need to update the software to use the Low-voltage Keypad power supply?

A. No, the Low-voltage Keypad power supply does not require any software support.

Q. What products does the Low-voltage Keypad power supply work with?

A. The Low-voltage Keypad power supply works with the Control4 2-, 3-, & 6-botton keypads, as well as the LCD Keypad.

Q. Do I need to power each keypad individually, or can I chain them together using a single power supply?

A. The Low-voltage Keypad power supply can be used to power up to 10 keypads when they are wired in parallel.

Q. How many keypads can I power from a single Low-voltage Keypad power supply?

A. The Low-voltage Keypad power supply can power any combination of 2-, 3-, 6-button, or LCD Keypads. Up to 10 keypads can be powered from a single Low-voltage Keypad power supply.

Q Do I need special wiring to power the Control4 keypads with low voltage power?

A. The Low-voltage Keypad power supply can be used with any low-voltage capable wire, even down to 24 gauge CAT5 wire. The low voltage keypad power supply uses 2 conductor wires.

Q. Is Control4 shipping new low-voltage 2-, 3-, 6-button, and LCD keypads?

A. No. The Low-voltage Keypad power supply can be used with Control4’s current 2-, 3-, 6-button, and LCD Keypads. These keypads can be powered with regular 120v current, or with the Low-voltage Keypad power supply.

Q. Are Control4’s low-voltage keypads POE (Power Over Ethernet)?

A. No. The Low-voltage Keypad power supply offers an alternative to the 120v AC current. All data and communication takes place over Zigbee; the same as if the keypads were powered over 120v AC.

Q. How is it possible for the same keypad(s) to be powered from low voltage and high voltage?

A. The power circuitry of the Control4 2-, 3-, 6-button, & LCD Keypads is designed to operate within a range of voltage, allowing the same keypad to be powered from 120v or 36v power.

Q. Can I use a 3rd party power supply?

A. Use of a power supply other than the Control4 Low-voltage Keypad Power Supply or standard 120v AC power is not supported.

Software Maintenance Releases

Q. What is a Maintenance Release?

A. A Maintenance Release is a release of the Control4 software with changes limited to additional drivers for Control4 and 3rd party hardware support. In addition, Maintenance Releases include fixes for problems reported through Control4 Technical Support.

Q. Will there be a Maintenance Release for 1.3?

A. Control4 will provide a Maintenance Releases for 1.3 in support of the Control4 products targeted in 4Q06, as well as to provide support for a number of new 3rd party devices.

Q. What will the next Maintenance Release include?

A. The Maintenance Release scheduled for 4Q06 will include support for the following Control4 Hardware.

• MultiTuner with XM

• System Remote Control V2

• 10.5” In-wall Touch Panel

• Wireless In-line Dimmer

Q. What Drivers are scheduled for the Q4 maintenance release?

A. We will have the following 3rd party drivers in the next maintenance releasel

• Sonance iPort

• DSC Power 832 Security Panel

• DSC Maxsys Security Panel

• HAI OmniPro II Security Panel and Thermostat

• Elk Security Panel Ethernet Module

iPod Integration

Q. Can I use my iPod with Control4?

A. Yes, an iPod can be integrated into the Control4 system two ways:

• Connect the iPod directly into the USB port of any Control4 controller (HTC or MC).

• Alternatively, an iPod can be integrated into the Control4 system using an iPort.

Q. How do I control the iPod?

A.

• USB connection to Controller: The Control4 system treats the iPod like any other shared storage device. The iPod is scanned using Composer ME, and all the songs are integrated into the digital audio library and controlled through the digital audio controls from any navigator.

• iPort: The iPod appears in the Control4 system like any other Analog device, such as a CD player, Tape Player, etc. The iPod is selected as a music source and controlled directly through any Navigator interface.

Q. Are all the iPod’s playlists, tag info, and file formats available?

A.

• USB connection to Controller: All MP3 files on the iPod are recognized by the Control4 system. Tag information is captured when the iPod is scanned with Composer ME. AAC, and files protected with Apple Fairshare DRM are not supported. Playlists are not imported or available.

• iPort: The iPod is controlled directly and sends line-level audio signals to the control4 system. Therefore, all file formats stored on the iPod are supported, and playlists and tag information are available without scanning.

Q. Is Control4 going to support AAC and playlist importing in the future?

A. Control4 is continuing to enhance our iPod integration and will offer additional capabilities such as AAC file support in the future.

[waynechi]

Thanks much C44Me. See... most of these questions are ones I didn't even know to ask. Look how much Q&A time I saved lippavisual by getting this stuff in advance. I had no idea about the iPort compatibility in the pipeline but now I want one with the 1.3 install (plus I am going to bite on 4Sight and a second 777). But seriously, the installation of 1.3 is a huge oppty for Control4 to sell a huge wave of other add-ons to the installed base. They seem to be missing out on the oppty to generate end user interest for upgrades by not marketing to customers directly.

The only thing I don't think I needed to know in there were the dealer margins. Which I have no qualms with -- I completely support the dealer model. The issue with DIY with this kind of a systems is that only roughly half of the want-to-be-DIYers are technically competent enough to install one of these. The "bad" half are the kind that would trash the product on all of the boards when they cant figure out what they are doing, which hurts the brand. I mean, a good portion of certified dealers stuggle with installing this thing correctly. C4 isn't set up for direct customer support, and the low volumes of the product are probably too low to justify it (I'd be surprised if there were more than 1000-2000 C4 installations out there total in the US right now). So they need dealers to take margins on both the product and installation in order to make money. If my dealer has installed 40 of these in a year, and the average install is 30K with half of it margin, then thats $600K gross revenue per year. Pay 2-4 installers, capitalize equipment, pay for training, working capital, overhead and the installers' bar tab at CEDIA, and a fairly successful installer is probably making $250K. Others starting out and doing 5-7 of these a year might make $50K. That's probably the kind of margin you need to provide in order to maintain distribution and service of the product.

That said, whoever out there asserted that the dealers are C4's main customers have it wrong. They are called "channel partners" in the business and have a different set of wants and needs than end consumers (their wants and needs are estimated in the above paragraph). C4 needs to keep its channel partners happy, but in the end of the day they need a strategy to get end users excited. Small-to-medium installers have trouble doing that. You can imagine why C4 struck its deal with Tweeter -- the amount of direct conusmer eyeballs it gets from Tweeter customers seeing the product first hand is going to go up exponentially as a result of this arrangement. Which is good for those of us who want to see C4 grow so our product keeps getting supported.

So keep the information coming: C4 sales are growing as a result of one information-sharing post! My dealer's phone will be ringing next week as soon as he sobers up after returning from CEDIA. However, just to be on the safe side I am going to download the attachment now in case others don't see things the same way and it gets removed from the board.

[C4 4 Me]

However, just to be on the safe side I am going to download the attachment now in case others don't see things the same way and it gets removed from the board.

I do not think any of that info is private, so I posted it. I did remove the dealer pricing, although it has been discussed in other threads that dealer margin is ~40%.

[maxspivak]

Thanks for posting the FAQ! Fantastic stuff.

There is a mention of "System Remote Control V2". What is that? Is it available already?

[ATOH]

Max,

None of the stuff mentioned is available yet. (10.5 inwall, system remote V2, etc.)

By Christmas is my guess, maybe January.

[rso2006]

$899 to get my XM to work for the C4 Tuner? Wow. That's like 10 years worth of XM by subscription. I think I'll pass