Party mode, synced for real

[jacdx]

Hey guys,

Is there an easy way to do "party mode" aka turn on all your audio zones, playing the same thing, in-sync. My source would probably be a Sonos outputting into a HC-300, which outputs to my amp.

How does this work with regular C4 amp zones mixed with receiver zones? I already have a sync issue between these two zones types, which drives me nuts. Apparently to fix it, I'll need to Y my Sonos output and run it to each of my receivers so they'll be in sync with my amp (seems ghetto)? Or do I need an audio matrix...and still run wire for outputs from it to each receiver?

[PixelPerfect]

I have c4 audio matrix, I only have 4 zones setup right now, and they all play in sync with each other.

[HookedOnC4]

On the iPad I just hit add zones then all zones. I have 11 zones...

[ILoveC4]

It's the different amps causing the problem.

I have 9 zones playing right now, perfectly in sync, with the house in party mode.

I love this system =)

[jacdx]

Resurrected!

So, I still haven't found a solution for my situation. In my living room and master, I have Denon zones, with TVs and nice speakers, subs, etc. In all other zones, I have in-ceilings driven by a C4 amp.

It's common for me to want to play music on multiple zones and have it synced. I usually want to play both zone types at the same time (e.g. Master [Denon] and Master Bath [in-ceilings], which is driving me nuts right now because they don't play in sync. I'm really doubting the usefulness of C4's controller-to-controller audio streaming at this point.

What are my options here? I want to sync these zone types somehow. I've thought of:

1. Installing in-ceilings in Denon zones, which would be driven off of my C4-amp, effectively creating 2 more zones for rooms that already have audio endpoints

Cons: great floorstanding speakers are wasted/not used for music. More "ceiling clutter". Lesser audio quality.

2. Run speaker-level outs from the C4-amp to inputs on the Denons, eliminating the controller-to-controller audio streaming.

Cons: not sure if the receivers have speaker-level inputs

[nikon]

Out of those choices I'd say #2 but use line level converters.

[wappinghigh]

Using any home theatre receiver as an amp/speaker "zone" is problematic with multiroom digital music players. For years I have been bugging Sonos for a solution to this issue...and they refuse to say it is a problem! Anyway, the obvious "solution" to what you want to do is to get another analog audio zone input from Control4 somehow into the Denon. The problem then however is (like adding a Sonos Zoneplayer to a home receiver) you can't then easily control the receiver to set the correct input for the multi room source> That is unless you walk up to the receiver and physically select the input. You could put some additional logic into the C4 control of the receiver...but it gets messy, and takes away the simplicity of the whole "multiroom control from a simple GUI thing"......I got so frustrated, I now run two separate zones in my Family room (option 1 above). It really is the simplest and as far as I know the only truly tested solution..Rather than making more holes in my ceiling, I decided to just buy a moderate price set of stereo speakers. I swapped these onto my home receiver (for movies...the front lateral channels on movies are just for surround sound effect anyway..and not crucial for listening), and I moved my much better set of stereo speakers onto the separately controlled new Sonos music zone. For you, this would simply mean connecting these to a C4 speakerpoint....and a bit of programming (I think)..though I'm no expert in C4 music distribution...

So in summary, you might find just buying a moderately cheap pair of new speakers (doing "the swap") and couple of speakerpoints or direct wiring them back to the C4 amp: is a cheaper and better sound solution than paying for extra labor drilling new holes in ceiling etc...

[earo]

In my setup, I use a Niles automatic A/B speaker switch to solve this problem. I solely use the Sonos ZP's w/ the amps built-in. My L/R speakers in my living room are connected to the switch. My Marantz receiver is connected to the "Default A" terminals with the Sonos connected to the "Sensed/Switched B" terminals. If my receiver is on, the speakers provide audio from the receiver. But as soon as the switch senses the Sonos, the switch is thrown and the output of the speakers goes to the Sonos amp. The switch isn't pretty, but at $99 it's a very simple solution to this problem. As good as the EV driver is, my family still prefers to pick up the Sonos CR200 controller if they just want audio. This has the further benefit of having one volume control for all zones. Using mixed amps precludes you from just using the Sonos remotes (or apps) to control volume in all zones. Here's a link to the Niles switch:

http://www.nilesaudio.com/product.php?prodID=ABS-1&recordID=Automated%20Switching%20Systems&categoryID=Switching%20Systems&catcdID=10&prdcdID=FG00271

[jacdx]

Keep the ideas coming guys! Are there solutions that haven't been mentioned yet? It's crazy that there isn't a clean C4 solution to this problem.

A couple of details I forgot to mention:

My Sonos and the HC300 are in my rack in the utility room. I don't want to add any Sonos equipment in any zones, I want to keep them centralized.

-The sync issue isn't consistent. I typically start playing the Master Bath (in-ceiling) zone first and then later add the Master (Denon) zone in. During that first song, the sync disparity is random but small (up to half a beat off). Enough to be annoying for sure. Sometimes, that first song is even in sync. When the next song starts, the sync varies wildly, but almost always gets worse. Usually a second or two off. At that point, I start turning things off.

-I really hate the idea of adding more speakers to fix this. Having two sets of floor-standing speakers in a room seems like a terrible idea, although I understand why some of you have done it.

-The "lip sync" feature of the receiver doesn't help because the sync disparity varies with each song that's played.

[strange_brew]

I have a mix of Receiver and C4 amp zones and mine sync's just fine.

[nikon]

Anyway, the obvious "solution" to what you want to do is to get another analog audio zone input from Control4 somehow into the Denon. The problem then however is (like adding a Sonos Zoneplayer to a home receiver) you can't then easily control the receiver to set the correct input for the multi room source>

I don't see any problem here. The control system can switch the receiver to the correct input without any issues.

[jacdx]

I have a mix of Receiver and C4 amp zones and mine sync's just fine.

How are your receivers connected to the audio source? Are they getting inputs from the c4 amp or audio matrix outputs? Or are they getting fed from controller audio outputs with audio that's streamed between controllers (like me)?

[strange_brew]

Mine goes like this:

Audio sources (Sonos, HC300, etc...) -> 8x8 Matrix switch -> C4 16 channel amp (8 zones)

-> Receiver

-> Pre-amp

-> TV's (4 displays)

[nikon]

The problem is with digitizing streams or syncing between controllers outputting audio. As a result you wouldn't have the symptoms jacdx is describing.

[nikon]

I have actually seen the issue on quite a few systems and I have been able to replicate this same issue on my system as well which is running 2.1.1. A reboot of the controllers seems to fix it but for how long remains to be seen. As suggested in another thread this is probably due to time not being in sync between controllers. This feature should work but doesn't seem to be 100% reliable on all systems for whatever reason (I will have to look into this a bit deeper when i have some extra time.)

[dgbrown]

Jadx - If you have Sonos already then ditch the HC300 media streams, an pick up an audio matrix switch like stragebrew has implied.

sources you want available on Denon zones -> C4 audio matrix --> C4 Amp

|

|--> Denon Zone(s)

If you only had one Denon zone, as an alternative just Y the output from the Sonos and send one output to the C4 amp and one output to the Denon. This is a common solution to expanding beyond 8 zones of audio in the C4 world with C4 amps.

[sji]

Jacdx-

I posted a similar question a few weeks ago under "Need advice to sync audio/video". Although slightly different, the premise I believe is the same: Audio coming from the C4 amp will always be a little faster than any audio that has to pass through a another digital processing device (Home theater system/HD TV). The ideal solution would be if the C4 audio matrix had a built in programmable delay feature.

I don't know if this will work for your needs, but I was considering getting an audio delay device, like this one ( http://www.hallresearch.com/page/AD-340 ) to delay the audio output to the ceiling speakers so the TV or HT connected speakers can catch up. It would be a fixed time delay, and it sounds like yours is variable, and it can only handle 1 input/output, but just a thought.

[jacdx]

Thanks for the input guys. I think the problem child is the controller to controller streaming. I don't have analog audio run from the rack in the basement to the Denon zones. Looks like I'll need to do that and add a C4 audio matrix to manage the I/O down there.