tmccrack Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Hi everyone... Not had any luck getting an answer so decided to post the question.About half of my music collection has been coded with Apple Lossless (.m4a) without DRM and my understanding is that since we went to Composer 2.0 or 2.1, my Control4 HC300 should support this music format. It is not however. I have tried multiple ways of trying to get it to read them and have failed. Before I re-encode all to MP3's with a reduced quality, I wanted to reach out for other ideas.System: Control4, HC300, I do not have the additional control4 media device.- I am on Director 2.1.1.135702 (August 2011 release). - My buddy is a dealer and he is helping me. He just didn't know the answer to why this was not working so I told him I would post the question since he is not making much money on me - We are using the dealer version of Composer, not the HE "lite" version - I have re-scanned a multitude of times and have .m4a (both audio and video) choices selected.Please let me know if you need additional information in order to diagnose.Thank you! Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I've copied this explanation for you. For what it's worth, the new HC800 says it supports AAC...I'm not sure this is the same with the HC300(cause I don't use it for music right now)...but the following may help you...Raw *.aac files are just that, they are raw AAC audio without any container. See, there are many containers out there and these containers can hold certain types of audio and video data. AAC audio is normally wrapped in a mpeg-4 container to make life easier. mpeg-4 AAC audio commonly had three types of filenames: *.m4a (used commonly by iTunes, Apple pretty much set this standard up), *.mp4 (commonly used by other, less known applications), and *.m4p (used only by Apple to show that your content was purchased from the iTunes Store). You can freely go from a *.mp4 to *.m4a by renaming your files, there is no need to convert since they are essentially the same thing.You cannot simply convert a *.m4p file though as it contains DRM and prevents you from doing so. You will have to burn that to a audio CD and rip it as a different format. *.aac files can be made into *.m4a/*.mp4 files by taking the AAC audio and manually putting it in a mpeg-4 container. This can be done with many different applications. All of those formats are essentially the same thing though but their filenames distinguish them for different uses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 So try renaming one to .mp4 and see if that works...for what it's worth, the file containers supported by the HC800 are not actually specified I know I'm getting off track a bit (cause you have a HC300)...but if you read my other posts, you'll see where I'm heading with this...for years the prob has been c4 lack of convenience with iTunes..adding tracks has been a PITA because you had to do all this sort of thing AND do it thru the C4 media software...I'm crossing my fingers this is about to change with the HC800 and an estata attached drive...Ryan....can you help us both out here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Ryan....can you help us both out here...Nope.Unfortunately, I don't know much about the Apple formats or what Control4 supports in terms of iTunes. I haven't been an 'Apple guy' since the Apple ][.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdvr Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Although C4 supports AAC it does not support Apple "lossless" you will have to reincode them to a "lossy format" or to FLAC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Although C4 supports AAC it does not support Apple "lossless" you will have to reincode them to a "lossy format" or to FLACBummer. There goes my planned future purchase of a new HC800...right there...pity..it was all looking so promising.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikon Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 As far as I know (unless something changed recently) Apple lossless does not play through Control4 equipment. You would need to either convert it to a readable format or play it through iTunes, Linn, or Sonos with an EV driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 There you go..I deleted the post for you. What a shame..a real let down...Oh well Todd, I guess you have your answer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Oh, you mean the one Apple *just barely (a couple of months ago)* open sourced and freely licensed usage by 3rd-parties? http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/10/after-seven-years-apple-open-sources-its-apple-lossless-audio-codec.arsApple doesn't usually make it very easy to be interoperable.Until 2 months ago, you had to use a reverse-engineered decoder for Apple Lossless, and hope Apple doesn't choose to sue you. Control4 doesn't use reverse-engineered codecs, and chose not to kiss up to Apple by licensing what Control4 already had with FLAC.There's certainly the possibility that Control4 will support the ALAC/ALE (Apple Lossless) format at some point, but Control4 already supports FLAC, which has been the true open lossless format for quite some time.If this is what causes you to go 'off the HC800', that's a shame, but IMHO, it's also a pretty lame excuse.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Sorry Ryan. Yes I was planning replacing all my Sonos gear with an hc800 and shifting other controllers around. Oh well...I'll put it off a while until C4 pays for the Apple lossless licence and can steam AIFF as well.,.until that day....:cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikon Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 They do support .m4a but not .m4a lossless from what I can remember. Does Apple now offer lossless downloads? They used to only allow you to download some crappy format/bitrate that would make my ears bleed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikon Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Well i just purchased a song from iTunes spending $1.29 or so. The bitrate is better than last time I saw but it is a lossey format. It does work without issue. The issue is when a disk is ripped and encoded in Apple Lossless format it doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Geoff. Slightly better with iTunes plus. But still not true lossless. The problem with my situation is my library is over 5k of tracks. That's alot of FLAC conversion...I won't be the only one with a sizeable library of ALAC and AIFF files...I'm sorry for getting all excited...but just there..I saw the future with that eSata port...cause I hate NAS drives/Sonos..it's unreliable on my network. An expandable direct attached storage solution would be more robust at my place, and the larger drives and ability to mount them, would have made it way easier to manage a switch from Sonos to C4(as the primary multiroom solution)...appols for leading you all down 'a garden path' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikon Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Sorry Ryan. Yes I was planning replacing all my Sonos gear with an hc800 and shifting other controllers around. Oh well...I'll put it off a while until C4 pays for the Apple lossless licence and can steam AIFF as well.,.until that day....:cool:Who knows maybe Apple will stop being being Apple and give the option for FLAC ripping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikon Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Geoff. Slightly better with iTunes plus. But still not true lossless. The problem with my situation is my library is over 5k of tracks. That's alot of FLAC conversion...I won't be the only one with a sizeable library of ALAC and AIFF files...I'm sorry for getting all excited...but just there..I saw the future with that eSata port...cause I hate NAS drives/Sonos..it's unreliable on my network. An expandable direct attached storage solution would be more robust at my place, and the larger drives and ability to mount them, would have made it way easier to manage a switch from Sonos to C4(as the primary multiroom solution)...appols for leading you all down 'a garden path' Hey no problem. If you are looking to get "true" lossless recordings go look up 24bit Studio Master FLAC. Most people haven't heard of it. They sound absolutely amazing on a proper hifi sound system. I am pretty certain a Sonos unit would choke on the file. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Geoff..does your C4 setup play these 24 bit studio master FLAC's...? I thought there was a limit on 24Bit files, and sample rates higher than the high 300kHz's...There are ways to get FLAC files into iTunes.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikon Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 With a Linn Player you can play Studio Master FLAC and integrate with C4. I just heard a Linn DS last week. I was extremely impressed by the unit. Absolutely phenomenal sound quality. Rhapsody sounded like complete and total crap in comparison to the SMF files. The Linns will playback 24bit/192kHz studio master files.I don't doubt that you can get FLAC into iTunes. It is just too bad you can't choose to rip and manage FLAC files from iTunes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I know about Linn. (I have a DS). And Yeh ya can...You can get Flac into itunes with varous plugin's Geoff..see : https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2493126?start=0&tstart=0But this all comes down to the convenience of itunes and syncing itunes with idevices....becasue you can't then put a FLAC file onto your ipod...This is what seems so hard to get thru to the powers at be a C4. If someone uses itunes..they use it because of the ease of use of library management and sync with their ipod/i phone/ipad...They then want to naturally take it one step further and sync it with their multiroom home auto setup. They don't want to file convert/library shift/use another program whatever to do this....I just thought for a glimpsing moment we had that with the HC800...silly me If the licence for Apple Lossless is now "open"..Control4 should just go ahead and spend whatever to use it.. there should be no argument on this... but I guess it all depends on cost... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 From what little I've read, I don't think it's a licensing cost issue (anymore), but it's certainly a resource / allocation issue, I would assume.RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 From what little I've read, I don't think it's a licensing cost issue (anymore), but it's certainly a resource / allocation issue, I would assume.RyanE:cool: I won't give up hope (just yet) on the HC800... :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Don't give up hope, but don't hold your breath, either.Purple isn't your color.:|RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Purple isn't your color.RyanENo You know sometimes I wonder whether my life wouldn't be easier just ditching the whole "own your own library/backup up your own cd thingie" and just simply use Rhapsody. Always. No Apple. No different file formats. No Nas drives. No backing up. No itunes store accounts. I'd be happy.It's just livin' with teenage daughters..they want everything now. The latest hits..straight on the ipod..and streamed straight around the house. If it aint happening in 2 seconds flat. "I'm a frigg'n dinosaur"..no it can get worse..."a retard".........And Rhapsody just doesn't cut it with the Top50..My strike rate is 25% with current hits.....They are spoilt yes..but lets face it, teenage girls are pretty much the driving force of the economy.....the marketing, the language..Drop behind these guys with the technology changes in your home, and you're toast.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasBill Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Purple isn't your color.RyanENo You know sometimes I wonder whether my life wouldn't be easier just ditching the whole "own your own library/backup up your own cd thingie" and just simply use Rhapsody. Always. No Apple. No different file formats. No Nas drives. No backing up. No itunes store accounts. I'd be happy.It's just livin' with teenage daughters..they want everything now. The latest hits..straight on the ipod..and streamed straight around the house. If it aint happening in 2 seconds flat. "I'm a frigg'n dinosaur"..no it can get worse..."a retard".........And Rhapsody just doesn't cut it with the Top50..My strike rate is 25% with current hits.....They are spoilt yes..but lets face it' date=' teenage girls are pretty much the driving force of the economy.....the marketing, the language..Drop behind these guys with the technology changes in your home, and you're toast....[/quote']I had a huge library of music files - I have programs that will take any format and put it into another format. It was a hassle - but to get the music that I wanted it was something that I did. When we moved into this new house I gave away all my CD's, most of my DVDs and we went electronic - Rhapsody is really cool and is implemented pretty well into C4.My issues are:1. when you have a large play list saved it takes a REALLY long time to load it and editing it is not easy. There is no "search" feature in the editor. 2. I would like to be able to play the files directly in the editor so that I can know what the song is.3. Rhapsody is very good but there are some groups and some songs they don't have - for example - "The Eagles" are not available on Rhapsody.All the above being said - I have a richer listening experience now than I ever have and I really enjoy it - I will not be going back at this point.Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulstevens Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 My issues are:1. when you have a large play list saved it takes a REALLY long time to load it and editing it is not easy. There is no "search" feature in the editor.THIS is something I hope is improved with the HC800, but I somehow doubt it. It seems to be an issue no matter what the source of a large library, mp3's in my case (running 2.1.1 on HC1000), and rhapsody playlist in this case. Maybe 2.2 will help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Agreed. It would be great if they did...all C4 needs to do is spend a touch more time configuring the new HC800 to add some real multiroom music functionality...it's all in the software..At $999 and 4 zones, it's a great buy just for that IMHO..and would compete big time with say Sonos..not to mention all the home control thrown in..They just have to get their mind around what to do. Open up access to the music library outside composer, add the ability to mount a DAS drive onto that esata point, add a few more apple and other compatible file formats...that sort of thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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